Author Topic: Neocatechumenal Way  (Read 479 times)

Offline GMC

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Neocatechumenal Way
« on: August 05, 2022, 03:41:44 AM »
Yes, I know they are Novus Ordo, and indeed they have one of the worst if not the worst Novus Ordo liturgy and some pretty questionable things. However, I'm surprised by the enormous success they have. While the Novus Ordo is in complete decline with fewer people and fewer vocations. The Neocatechumenal Way does not stop growing, its "communities" multiply like mushrooms all over the world. If you go to a Way mass, you will notice that it is crowded, with a lot of young people, just the opposite of most ordinary Novus Ordo masses.

I know "Kikos" in Spain and it is not uncommon for them to have 6-7 children, we are talking about a country with a low birth rate, where this hardly changes with the Novus Ordo Catholics, the Novus Ordo Churches are half empty and full of elderly, without However, the reality on the Camino is the opposite. They are full of youth, growth and fertility.

I have spoken with several of them, and politically they would be considered "far right". They tell very clearly against gender ideology, abortion, feminism, etc, nothing to do with the average Liberal Novus Ordo.

What is the explanation for why the most liturgically Novus Ordo group of all has this overwhelming success?

It seems to me an interesting phenomenon and that is why I open a thread to talk about this.
« Last Edit: August 05, 2022, 03:45:05 AM by GMC »
 
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Offline Acolyte

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Re: Neocatechumenal Way
« Reply #1 on: August 05, 2022, 10:14:47 AM »
https://thoughtfulcatholic.com/?page_id=766

Check out the "Kiko's Tabernacle" page.

Why the attraction to this "Way" ?  I'm not sure. I'll have to look into it more to even make a guess.
"Consider all the past has nothing, and say, like David: Now I begin to love my God."
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Offline Jmartyr

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Re: Neocatechumenal Way
« Reply #2 on: August 05, 2022, 11:31:43 AM »
Medjugorje and the Pentecostal movement are also popular. A lot of it imo is based on emotions and feeling instead of rationality and reality. A feeling of "the divine" is also found in people who worship scarab beetles and dung heaps, to quote the great Romano Amerio in Iota Unum.
I went to Medjugorje, not knowing any better. I actually had an experience of ecstasy while praying the rosary there. Time felt like it stopped, I felt the most at peace ever in my life, and I could see the sun dancing, while looking directly at it. Then later on in life,and finding out" Our Lady " contradicted Catholic Dogma, realized it had to be a deception of the devil.
“If anyone is excommunicated it is not I, but the excommunicators.” - Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre
 
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Offline coffeeandcigarette

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Re: Neocatechumenal Way
« Reply #3 on: August 05, 2022, 11:36:51 AM »
Medjugorje and the Pentecostal movement are also popular. A lot of it imo is based on emotions and feeling instead of rationality and reality. A feeling of "the divine" is also found in people who worship scarab beetles and dung heaps, to quote the great Romano Amerio in Iota Unum.
I went to Medjugorje, not knowing any better. I actually had an experience of ecstasy while praying the rosary there. Time felt like it stopped, I felt the most at peace ever in my life, and I could see the sun dancing, while looking directly at it. Then later on in life,and finding out" Our Lady " contradicted Catholic Dogma, realized it had to be a deception of the devil.

This! Look at Oprah and Dr. Phil, they are wildly popular and they spout emotional nonsense all day. People love the warm fuzzies. They love "feeling" like they belong. All the spiritual highs, no lows, no pesky asceticism. Whats not to love...? LOL
 
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Offline Maximilian

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Re: Neocatechumenal Way
« Reply #4 on: August 05, 2022, 12:56:33 PM »

I went to Medjugorje, not knowing any better. I actually had an experience of ecstasy while praying the rosary there. Time felt like it stopped, I felt the most at peace ever in my life, and I could see the sun dancing, while looking directly at it.

Fascinating.
 
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Offline Maximilian

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Re: Neocatechumenal Way
« Reply #5 on: August 05, 2022, 01:20:01 PM »
I know "Kikos" in Spain and it is not uncommon for them to have 6-7 children, we are talking about a country with a low birth rate, where this hardly changes with the Novus Ordo Catholics, the Novus Ordo Churches are half empty and full of elderly, without However, the reality on the Camino is the opposite. They are full of youth, growth and fertility.

I have spoken with several of them, and politically they would be considered "far right". They tell very clearly against gender ideology, abortion, feminism, etc, nothing to do with the average Liberal Novus Ordo.

What is the explanation for why the most liturgically Novus Ordo group of all has this overwhelming success?

Interesting observation, and interesting question.

I would reply that God rewards you for your faithfulness, even when you are still not seeing the whole big picture. So if these people are being faithful to God by generously accepting large families, then God will reward them for that, despite their deplorable taste in liturgy.

I have personally witnessed instances where someone knew nothing other than the N.O. and was living in a state of sin, but they refused to practice birth control. God rewarded them for that act of faithfulness, and eventually He gave them the graces to discover the rest of the truth.
 
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Offline Jmartyr

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Re: Neocatechumenal Way
« Reply #6 on: August 05, 2022, 03:12:04 PM »
Yes, my mom is all about Medjugorje and the NO. She is a thousand times more charitable, loving,etc. compared to me who only goes to the TLM.
“If anyone is excommunicated it is not I, but the excommunicators.” - Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre
 
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Offline Acolyte

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Re: Neocatechumenal Way
« Reply #7 on: August 05, 2022, 04:01:37 PM »
There are some good things happening in the diocesan schools and parishes. (NO aside)
https://www.ncregister.com/features/how-daily-mass-transformed-a-catholic-school-in-kentucky

"The day after Father Daniel Schomaker took up his duties in 2017 as pastor of St. Augustine Catholic Church in the Diocese of Covington, Kentucky, he met with the parish school principal, Kathy Nienaber.

“She asked me, ‘Is there anything you want to do?’” Father Schomaker told the Register.

“I said, ‘Yes, I want the children to go to Mass every day.’”


........... "They learned to be quiet; they learned to be reverent; they learned how to pray,” he said. “In addition, the children who were Catholic were able to receive Jesus in the Eucharist, which is huge.”
« Last Edit: August 05, 2022, 04:05:44 PM by Acolyte »
"Consider all the past has nothing, and say, like David: Now I begin to love my God."
St Francis de Sales
 
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Offline Lynne

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Re: Neocatechumenal Way
« Reply #8 on: August 05, 2022, 04:19:34 PM »
Yes, my mom is all about Medjugorje and the NO. She is a thousand times more charitable, loving,etc. compared to me who only goes to the TLM.

You seem to be a very nice/charitable person...  :)
In conclusion, I can leave you with no better advice than that given after every sermon by Msgr Vincent Giammarino, who was pastor of St Michael’s Church in Atlantic City in the 1950s:

    “My dear good people: Do what you have to do, When you’re supposed to do it, The best way you can do it,   For the Love of God. Amen.”
 
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Offline Jmartyr

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Re: Neocatechumenal Way
« Reply #9 on: August 05, 2022, 04:23:46 PM »
Yes, my mom is all about Medjugorje and the NO. She is a thousand times more charitable, loving,etc. compared to me who only goes to the TLM.

You seem to be a very nice/charitable person...  :)
Thanks... I'll put you in contact with my wife,lol!
“If anyone is excommunicated it is not I, but the excommunicators.” - Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre
 
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Offline Lynne

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Re: Neocatechumenal Way
« Reply #10 on: August 05, 2022, 04:25:04 PM »
Yes, my mom is all about Medjugorje and the NO. She is a thousand times more charitable, loving,etc. compared to me who only goes to the TLM.

You seem to be a very nice/charitable person...  :)
Thanks... I'll put you in contact with my wife,lol!

hahaha
In conclusion, I can leave you with no better advice than that given after every sermon by Msgr Vincent Giammarino, who was pastor of St Michael’s Church in Atlantic City in the 1950s:

    “My dear good people: Do what you have to do, When you’re supposed to do it, The best way you can do it,   For the Love of God. Amen.”
 

Offline Aulef

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Re: Neocatechumenal Way
« Reply #11 on: August 05, 2022, 07:34:42 PM »
Father Enrico Zoffoli, may he rest in peace, wrote books denouncing errors and heresies of the neocatechumenal way.

Some problems in this movement he pointed out are:

- The movement works as a secret society in which only the ''initiated'' have access to ''full knowledge'';
- Kiko and his followers think Faith is not rational;
- It is polluted by immanentism
- Communion is in two species in not very pious ways and it looks like they dance around (?) with Consecrated Hosts

Besides, they say they try to be as the primitive Church, however, this is nothing but archeologism and at least material denial that the Holy Spirit inspired the development of cerimonies, liturgies, sacramentals, devotions etc.
« Last Edit: August 05, 2022, 07:37:08 PM by Aulef »
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Et macula originalis non est in Te
 
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Offline Julio

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Re: Neocatechumenal Way
« Reply #12 on: August 05, 2022, 10:55:34 PM »
My grandparents in my mother-side, may they rest in peace, were members of that organization. My take on that is this:

"Anyone who gives you a cup of water to drink because you belong to Christ, amen, I say to you, will surely not lose his reward." (Mark 9:41)

I agree with the observation over Neocatechumenal Way that they are against the Tradition of the Catholic Church because they tend to create certain exclusivity and the manifestation of faith sans reason among others.

In the Philippines, there is also this movement called "El Shaddai," that is very Pentecostal at its core and it is under the leadership of Bro. Mike Velarde who preaches prosperity gospel. The Catholic leadership in the Philippines provides Priest as spiritual adviser over chapters of this organization to perhaps maintain the Catholic membership. I see it however as an organization with anti-Catholic teachings and yet those members of it thinks of utmost faith in God and ultimate adherence over Catholicism.

I see a parallel line of Neocatechumenal Way and El Shaddai in terms of feeling like a super-Catholic. I see the inclination to commit the sin of pride in them. I maybe wrong and ask for forgiveness from our God. But that is my opinion on them.
 
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Offline GMC

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Re: Neocatechumenal Way
« Reply #13 on: August 06, 2022, 08:11:25 AM »
Yes, I know they are heretics. What interests me is why they work so well, and I think the key is in their community system. They have recreated the aid system of the early Christians, before the Roman government became Christianized, when no institution supported Christians and they had to support each other.

The kikos help each other, marry each other, and practically function as a tribe apart from society. Saving the enormous distances, it's something similar to what the gypsies do, or the Chinese in (at least) Spain.

When the Chinese come they have people who lend them money to get a business, and they will return the favor to the community when they work well and are earning money. This is how they have managed to control a large part of the businesses in the neighborhoods here.

The gypsies, well, many of them live outside the law and society, as if they were a parallel country within the country.

Kikos offer a community that allows them to function in a hostile society to Christian ideas. I think that is the key to its success.

Perhaps we trads should do something similar, without falling into their heresies obviously. In the SSPX no community is created', a way of living in community apart from the anti-Christian world isn't offered.

There is a lot of talk about going to live in the countryside to survive persecution, but in my opinion a gypsy clan in a city slum has a better chance of surviving than any Bear Grylls in the countryside, simply because they have a community that supports them.
« Last Edit: August 06, 2022, 08:13:28 AM by GMC »
 
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Offline queen.saints

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Re: Neocatechumenal Way
« Reply #14 on: August 06, 2022, 11:36:20 AM »
Yeah, there’s a young man who works with someone I know in a very secular setting who’s getting married young to a girl he wasn’t living with and he’s just all together not a creep and it turns out he’s a neocatechumen.
I am sorry for the times I have publicly criticized others on this forum, especially traditional Catholic religious, and any other scandalous posts and pray that no one reads or believes these false and ignorant statements.
 
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