Author Topic: "Conservative" Orders and lay movements; which are more Traditional ?  (Read 348 times)

Offline Edmundia

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I am very out of touch with what's going on, but a friend of mine who is a "good conservative" type wants to know which of the many new Orders,Movements,lay organisations would be most sympathetic and and traditional in their outlook and practice. I would have said (years ago) try the Legionaries of Christ or Opus Dei. They are both now very devoted to everything Pope Francis says and does. [That's why they've chucked out Fr Janvier Gbenou]
Are there any of these groups which would have good,clear and be closer to the true & Traditional ways. Opus Dei uses a lot of latin in public and private prayer (Angelus always said in Latin) and the Eastward position (mostly) for Mass but uncritical of the Pope and very pro-Vatican II .
Any ideas for this sort of more traditionalist groups ? 
 

Offline Michael Wilson

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The conservative groups that are truly traditionalist friendly are actively persecuted by the Conciliar hierarchy; they will all be suppressed. The traditional alternatives are: Fraternity of St. Peter; Institute of Christ the King; Institute of the Good Shepherd (IBP-France); There are some traditional Carmelite Fathers in Wisconsin; Carmelite Sisters in Pennsylvania (but are currently being harrassed by their bishop). I can't think of any others.
The Conciliar authorities resemble the Communist governments, that fear an internal revolt more than any other threat and use all of their power to suppress any even distant likelihood of one, in the guise of a traditional reaction in the clergy and laity.
"The World Must Conform to Our Lord and not He to it." Rev. Dennis Fahey CSSP

"My brothers, all of you, if you are condemned to see the triumph of evil, never applaud it. Never say to evil: you are good; to decadence: you are progess; to death: you are life. Sanctify yourselves in the times wherein God has placed you; bewail the evils and the disorders which God tolerates; oppose them with the energy of your works and your efforts, your life uncontaminated by error, free from being led astray, in such a way that having lived here below, united with the Spirit of the Lord, you will be admitted to be made but one with Him forever and ever: But he who is joined to the Lord is one in spirit." Cardinal Pie of Potiers
 
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Offline Edmundia

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Thank you.
I think that there is one called Miles Christi - a sort of semi-trad/conservative order with the Traditional rite of Mass. I think that they are very much in the Ignatian/Jesuit mould. There's not a great deal about them.
 

Offline Michael Wilson

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Thank you.
I think that there is one called Miles Christi - a sort of semi-trad/conservative order with the Traditional rite of Mass. I think that they are very much in the Ignatian/Jesuit mould. There's not a great deal about them.
I've seen adds about the M.C. But I don't know anything about them. The Legionaires were very conservative, outwardly praising Pope John Paul II; but after all the scandals of Fr. Maciel and the intervention by Rome, I don't know what happened to them.
I knew of another group in Barcelona, Spain that was also very Jesuit, formed by a conservative Jesuit priest; and the Lumen Dei, of Madrid; another Jesuit, trying to establish a traditional Jesuit order; the first was hopelessly compromised by trying to be traditional while going along as little as possible with the Conciliar religion; and the second was secretly i.e. Internally traditionalist, while outwardly pretending to go along. The Lumen Dei was intervened under the charge of being a sect and its founder removed.
"The World Must Conform to Our Lord and not He to it." Rev. Dennis Fahey CSSP

"My brothers, all of you, if you are condemned to see the triumph of evil, never applaud it. Never say to evil: you are good; to decadence: you are progess; to death: you are life. Sanctify yourselves in the times wherein God has placed you; bewail the evils and the disorders which God tolerates; oppose them with the energy of your works and your efforts, your life uncontaminated by error, free from being led astray, in such a way that having lived here below, united with the Spirit of the Lord, you will be admitted to be made but one with Him forever and ever: But he who is joined to the Lord is one in spirit." Cardinal Pie of Potiers
 
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Offline Jmartyr

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Mentioning the Legionaries made me think of Fox guest and former father Johnathan Morris who was laicized and is now married. That whole affair is so sad.
https://onepeterfive.com/why-im-not-so-quick-to-judge-jonathan-morris-for-leaving-the-priesthood/
“If anyone is excommunicated it is not I, but the excommunicators.” - Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre
 
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Offline Instaurare omnia

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Thank you.
I think that there is one called Miles Christi - a sort of semi-trad/conservative order with the Traditional rite of Mass. I think that they are very much in the Ignatian/Jesuit mould. There's not a great deal about them.
I've seen adds about the M.C. But I don't know anything about them. The Legionaires were very conservative, outwardly praising Pope John Paul II; but after all the scandals of Fr. Maciel and the intervention by Rome, I don't know what happened to them.
I knew of another group in Barcelona, Spain that was also very Jesuit, formed by a conservative Jesuit priest; and the Lumen Dei, of Madrid; another Jesuit, trying to establish a traditional Jesuit order; the first was hopelessly compromised by trying to be traditional while going along as little as possible with the Conciliar religion; and the second was secretly i.e. Internally traditionalist, while outwardly pretending to go along. The Lumen Dei was intervened under the charge of being a sect and its founder removed.

The LC have rebranded as Regnum Christi; they appear to have subsumed under a federation that includes laity and consecrated religious: https://www.regnumchristi.org/en/mission-2/ Fr. Matthew Schneider, for one, still tweets with the LC in his title yet also references RC: https://twitter.com/FrMatthewLC

For a while when I first reverted, I attended a parish in the Bronx where the pastor was formerly high up in the LC hierarchy. The parish is very much in the "reverent" mode with full schola on Sundays, and they take Holy Week quite seriously for the NO. Most Masses are not in English, and of the latter, these are attended mainly by rather conservative Nigerians. When I was there, it was always packed.

So my guess is that, outside of a very tiny percentage who follow such matters, the typical non-trad Catholic has no idea who Fr. Maciel was.   

As for the Carmelite Sisters, there is a convent in Brooklyn that offers daily TLM but is planning to relocate to rural PA due to the general moral deterioration of the Brooklyn neighborhood. In PA it would be -- for now -- Bishop Bambera's diocese, which also happens to include the US headquarters of the FSSP. Yes, the FSSP were assured back in February that they are "safe", but given everything happening these past weeks with DC, Arlington. etc. and the intimidation from the Vatican, it's been an effort to not think too much about the future. SSPX chapels are a bit further away, yet I must continue to remind myself that the Lord will sustain us.
Nisi Dominus custodierit civitatem, frustra vigilat qui custodit eam. (Psalm 126:2)

Benedicite, montes et colles, Domino: benedicite universa germinantia in terra, Domino. (Daniel 3:75-76)
 

Offline Edmundia

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Re: "Conservative" Orders and lay movements; which are more Traditional ?
« Reply #6 on: August 01, 2022, 05:02:16 AM »
Lumen Dei is a name from the past. I heard that they were under investigation but don't know why.
I went to a (New Rite) Mass celebrated by them as part of a "Day of recollection" and they tried to show their traditional reverence by being incredibly long and slow and the Mass lasted a very long time - not because of beautiful chant - but because of long, meaningful pauses and everything said at dictation speed.
 
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Offline drummerboy

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Re: "Conservative" Orders and lay movements; which are more Traditional ?
« Reply #7 on: August 01, 2022, 01:13:08 PM »
The conservative groups that are truly traditionalist friendly are actively persecuted by the Conciliar hierarchy; they will all be suppressed. The traditional alternatives are: Fraternity of St. Peter; Institute of Christ the King; Institute of the Good Shepherd (IBP-France); There are some traditional Carmelite Fathers in Wisconsin; Carmelite Sisters in Pennsylvania (but are currently being harrassed by their bishop). I can't think of any others.
The Conciliar authorities resemble the Communist governments, that fear an internal revolt more than any other threat and use all of their power to suppress any even distant likelihood of one, in the guise of a traditional reaction in the clergy and laity.

I personally am unaware of traditional Carmelites in WI, do you have a name? The friars at Holy Hill aren't traditional but they always allowed the ICK to conduct an annual pilgrimage there so they're obviously frieny. No pilgrimage this year, I wonder if TC put a cork in that.

https://www.fairfieldcarmelites.org/#

Watching this video does not give the impression that the nuns' bishop is persecuting them at all. It seems their bishops support them and pressure is coming from "mercy central" Rome
"Mightier than the sound of many waters, mightier than the surgings of the sea: mighty is the Lord on high"
- Ps 92:4
 
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Offline Francisco Javier

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Re: "Conservative" Orders and lay movements; which are more Traditional ?
« Reply #8 on: August 04, 2022, 03:20:26 PM »
I am very out of touch with what's going on, but a friend of mine who is a "good conservative" type wants to know which of the many new Orders,Movements,lay organisations would be most sympathetic and and traditional in their outlook and practice. I would have said (years ago) try the Legionaries of Christ or Opus Dei. They are both now very devoted to everything Pope Francis says and does. [That's why they've chucked out Fr Janvier Gbenou]
Are there any of these groups which would have good,clear and be closer to the true & Traditional ways. Opus Dei uses a lot of latin in public and private prayer (Angelus always said in Latin) and the Eastward position (mostly) for Mass but uncritical of the Pope and very pro-Vatican II .
Any ideas for this sort of more traditionalist groups ?

The Norbertines in southern California are half "reformers of the reform" and the other half traditionalists with some overlap. Solid community that had to flee communists in Hungary in the middle of the night. They seem to have two communities. They've done a great job pushing the influential NO families towards orthodoxy and pushing the kids into tradition.

I believe there is a Wisconsin? abbey that is liberal if not heterodox so it seems to be abbey dependent
 
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Offline drummerboy

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Re: "Conservative" Orders and lay movements; which are more Traditional ?
« Reply #9 on: August 05, 2022, 11:26:51 AM »
You're thinking of St. Joseph's Abbey in De Pere. Can't personally say how orthodox they are, I served Mass for one of the priests once when he was a visiting priest for my home parish, seemed decent to me.
"Mightier than the sound of many waters, mightier than the surgings of the sea: mighty is the Lord on high"
- Ps 92:4
 
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