Author Topic: Rodrigo Díaz de Vivar aka El Cid  (Read 465 times)

Offline Mr. Mysterious

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Rodrigo Díaz de Vivar aka El Cid
« on: July 10, 2022, 09:11:54 PM »
923 years ago today on July 10, A.D. 1099 Rodrigo Díaz de Vivar aka El Cid, the national hero of Spain died. (Interestingly enough he died just days before the First Crusade captured Jerusalem). A film depicting his life was made in 1961 entitled El Cid and starred Charlton Heston in the role.

"And thus the Cid rode out of the gates of history into legend..."


https://www.roman-catholic-saints.com/el-cid.html

https://nobility.org/2014/06/el-cid/

https://nobility.org/2011/09/el-cids-story-living-legend/

https://nobility.org/2016/02/el-cid-dies-and-the-king-rushes-to-help/

https://nobility.org/2013/11/el-cid-demands-an-oath-from-king-alfonso-prior-to-giving-his-allegiance/

https://nobility.org/2012/01/el-cid-banishment/
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Offline Melkor

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Re: Rodrigo Díaz de Vivar aka El Cid
« Reply #1 on: July 16, 2022, 05:11:57 PM »
Truly should be canonized. Besides being one of the best sword fighters of his era, his staunch Catholicism and loyalty to Spain and his king was amazing. Question tho, was Tizona or Colada better? Both sick swords. And another thing, the physique of a knight back then was better than any bodybuilder’s or athlete today. And the Cid was one of the best knights of his time.
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Offline Julio

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Re: Rodrigo Díaz de Vivar aka El Cid
« Reply #2 on: July 16, 2022, 08:34:36 PM »
There are historians especially the modernists who claim that El Cid was not really that Catholic because he also worked for the camp of the Moors. They portray him like more of a mercenary. It was a complex time and we are not in a position today to determine the rationale of their actions such as those strategies of Reconquista. So to me, in my understanding of his life, he was an epitome of a Catholic Knight. He served for God and for his King. Viva El Cid!
 
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Offline Melkor

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Re: Rodrigo Díaz de Vivar aka El Cid
« Reply #3 on: July 16, 2022, 09:18:38 PM »
There are historians especially the modernists who claim that El Cid was not really that Catholic because he also worked for the camp of the Moors. They portray him like more of a mercenary. It was a complex time and we are not in a position today to determine the rationale of their actions such as those strategies of Reconquista. So to me, in my understanding of his life, he was an epitome of a Catholic Knight. He served for God and for his King. Viva El Cid!

The thing is, even back then, there were two types of Muslims. The radical jihadists, and the peaceful type. While the Cid absolutely crushed the radical Islamists, he tolerated the other kind. Some of them betrayed him but I seem to remember that some of his best friends and most loyal supporters were Muslim lords.
All that is gold does not glitter, not all those who wander are lost.

"Am I not here, I who am your mother?" Mary to Juan Diego

"Let a man walk ten miles steadily on a hot summer's day along a dusty English road, and he will soon discover why beer was invented." G.K. Chesterton

"Blessed are they that hunger and thirst after justice: for they shall have their fill." Jesus Christ
 
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Offline Julio

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Re: Rodrigo Díaz de Vivar aka El Cid
« Reply #4 on: July 17, 2022, 06:04:58 AM »
There are historians especially the modernists who claim that El Cid was not really that Catholic because he also worked for the camp of the Moors. They portray him like more of a mercenary. It was a complex time and we are not in a position today to determine the rationale of their actions such as those strategies of Reconquista. So to me, in my understanding of his life, he was an epitome of a Catholic Knight. He served for God and for his King. Viva El Cid!

The thing is, even back then, there were two types of Muslims. The radical jihadists, and the peaceful type. While the Cid absolutely crushed the radical Islamists, he tolerated the other kind. Some of them betrayed him but I seem to remember that some of his best friends and most loyal supporters were Muslim lords.
The time of El Cid had its own complexity like what I said. I think these Muslims who were so called peaceful were not just obedient of those mandates of their kind of religion. They were the "modernists type" when compared from among the ranks of the Catholics of today who like pragmatism instead of obedience to Jesus. It maybe a relationship that was perceived by these Muslims on convenience instead of obedience to the doctrines of Islam. Those who did not manifest faithfulness in the teachings of their religion. It was perhaps the reason they were betraying their kind the way they befriended and supported El Cid, a Saracen slayer.

Had their fellow Muslims who were fanatic Islamists knew it, they would be killed as traitors. 
 
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Offline Melkor

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Re: Rodrigo Díaz de Vivar aka El Cid
« Reply #5 on: July 17, 2022, 09:28:44 AM »
There are historians especially the modernists who claim that El Cid was not really that Catholic because he also worked for the camp of the Moors. They portray him like more of a mercenary. It was a complex time and we are not in a position today to determine the rationale of their actions such as those strategies of Reconquista. So to me, in my understanding of his life, he was an epitome of a Catholic Knight. He served for God and for his King. Viva El Cid!

The thing is, even back then, there were two types of Muslims. The radical jihadists, and the peaceful type. While the Cid absolutely crushed the radical Islamists, he tolerated the other kind. Some of them betrayed him but I seem to remember that some of his best friends and most loyal supporters were Muslim lords.
The time of El Cid had its own complexity like what I said. I think these Muslims who were so called peaceful were not just obedient of those mandates of their kind of religion. They were the "modernists type" when compared from among the ranks of the Catholics of today who like pragmatism instead of obedience to Jesus. It maybe a relationship that was perceived by these Muslims on convenience instead of obedience to the doctrines of Islam. Those who did not manifest faithfulness in the teachings of their religion. It was perhaps the reason they were betraying their kind the way they befriended and supported El Cid, a Saracen slayer.

Had their fellow Muslims who were fanatic Islamists knew it, they would be killed as traitors.

Many of them were caught and killed by their fellow Muslims.
All that is gold does not glitter, not all those who wander are lost.

"Am I not here, I who am your mother?" Mary to Juan Diego

"Let a man walk ten miles steadily on a hot summer's day along a dusty English road, and he will soon discover why beer was invented." G.K. Chesterton

"Blessed are they that hunger and thirst after justice: for they shall have their fill." Jesus Christ
 
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Offline GMC

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Re: Rodrigo Díaz de Vivar aka El Cid
« Reply #6 on: July 23, 2022, 06:25:56 PM »
El Cid was a faithful vassal of Sancho II and Alfonso VI, until the latter banished him and he had to go to work for another lord, going to the service of the King of Zaragoza. The choice of Zaragoza wasn't accidental, he went to fight in an area far from Alfonso VI's area of ​​influence so as not to have to fight against him. At the service of the King of Zaragoza, he fighted against the King of Lleida and his ally and protector, the Count of Barcelona.

After reconciliation with Alfonso VI, El Cid dedicated himself to expanding the influence of the Kingdom of León in the East, and to fight against Almoravid Muslims who had invaded the Iberian Peninsula. After a second exile, El Cid had to establish himself on his own and set up his own lordship in Valencia, supported by both Christians and Muslims, Muslims who preferred the Christians to the Almoravids.

Already as Lord of Valencia, he sent his first-born son, Diego, to fight together with Alfonso VI against the Almoravids, dying in the battle of Cosuegra. And he married his daughters to the future King of Navarre and the Count of Barcelona. This clearly indicates what the Cid's loyalties were, forming a common Christian front against the Almoravids. Despite the long time that he was at the service of the King of Zaragoza and the good relations that he always maintained with the Hudís, the Cid neither converted to Islam nor became related to them.

For the rest, The Song of My Cid is not a reliable source, it was written a century after the events by who knows who, and this type of books, such as the Song of Roldan, belongs to fiction literature.

Therefore, events that ONLY appear in the poem, or in others similar poems, without other historical sources that mention them, should not be taken as historical, events such as the Oath of Santa Gadea, or what a good husband he was.
« Last Edit: July 23, 2022, 06:54:12 PM by GMC »
 
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Offline Julio

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Re: Rodrigo Díaz de Vivar aka El Cid
« Reply #7 on: July 23, 2022, 06:34:41 PM »
^^Right now, is the memory of El Cid remains relevant in Spain from among its new generation?
 

Offline GMC

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Re: Rodrigo Díaz de Vivar aka El Cid
« Reply #8 on: July 23, 2022, 07:00:17 PM »
^^Right now, is the memory of El Cid remains relevant in Spain from among its new generation?

People know him because they read part of "Song of My Cid" in high school.
 
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Offline GMC

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Re: Rodrigo Díaz de Vivar aka El Cid
« Reply #9 on: July 23, 2022, 07:13:47 PM »
There are historians especially the modernists who claim that El Cid was not really that Catholic because he also worked for the camp of the Moors. They portray him like more of a mercenary. It was a complex time and we are not in a position today to determine the rationale of their actions such as those strategies of Reconquista. So to me, in my understanding of his life, he was an epitome of a Catholic Knight. He served for God and for his King. Viva El Cid!

The thing is, even back then, there were two types of Muslims. The radical jihadists, and the peaceful type. While the Cid absolutely crushed the radical Islamists, he tolerated the other kind. Some of them betrayed him but I seem to remember that some of his best friends and most loyal supporters were Muslim lords.

Those "radical Muslims" you speak of were called Almoravids, they were another wave of invaders that arrived in the 11th century and imposed themselves on the Muslims who were already there.

https://www.britannica.com/topic/Almoravids
« Last Edit: July 23, 2022, 07:19:18 PM by GMC »
 
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Offline mikemac

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Re: Rodrigo Díaz de Vivar aka El Cid
« Reply #10 on: July 23, 2022, 10:25:27 PM »
Recently I was reading that there is a fairly close historic movie about El Cid.  I think it was just call El Cid.  Do you know of this movie GMC?
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Offline GMC

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Re: Rodrigo Díaz de Vivar aka El Cid
« Reply #11 on: July 24, 2022, 01:10:26 AM »
I only know of the movie the OP mentions. What is this:



It's good, although it's based on the semi-legendary Cid of the Song and other poems.
 
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