Sentient AI ?

[andy]

Actually the biggest question is not about human soul faculties we know there is no way to replicate but how far AI can pretend to behave like an animal.

Or is growing their bodies and replicating is a "function" of a material soul found in animals and plants.

[james03]

Here's a good way to think about AI.  If you ever have been on a long road trip, likely you've had times when your mind drifts off and maybe you start thinking about the shop you want to build.  It will have a Monarch lathe, milling machine, plasma table, laser table, CNC milling machine and powered by 480V's.  And of course an overhead gantry crane will be needed and some welding rigs.  And about the time you calculate the kVA of the transformer you'll need, you realize that you've been driving for the past 20 minutes and don't remember a darn thing about the driving during this time.

Have you been following any cars?  Did a truck pass you?  Did you change lanes?  What have you passed?  Zero recollection.  Null.  Nothing.  Your soul shifted its attention to your future shop plans and thus all the higher order spiritual functionality was removed from your driving.

What has happened is that an AI, which is your brain and 100% of the material world has been driving the car.  And since it is only open and closed synapses it has no perception, intentionality, purposefulness, or opinion.  It just followed a neural net pattern that had previously been created in the brain by your soul through 100s of hours of previous driving.  THAT is what AI is and does. 

And based on that observation, it should aid in determining what are the limits of AI.

[andy]

Yet you drive the same route again and all seems to be familiar. Other way to achieve the same state is to get drunk by the way.

[mikemac]

https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/world-economic-forum-adviser-claims-the-planet-no-longer-needs-the-vast-majority-of-the-population/

World Economic Forum adviser claims the planet no longer needs the 'vast majority' of the population

As a potential remedy to economically 'obsolete' people, Yuval Noah Harari proposed government redistribution of wealth, not just nationally, but globally.


(LifeSiteNews) – Top World Economic Forum (WEF) adviser Yuval Noah Harari recently declared that the world does not "need the vast majority" of the current population due to technological advances.

Harari made the bold declaration in an interview with Chris Anderson, head of the popular TED media group, echoing past predictions of a "useless class" of "unemployable" humans.

[yt]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w7DohVZS5Yo[/yt]

Harai suggested that, in a departure from the 20th century, when the "big heroes" of political systems' prevailing narratives were always "the common people," now in the 21st century, people "are no longer part of the story of the future." Instead, according to Harari, they have been replaced by artificial intelligence (AI) and displaced by a high-tech economy.
...

[MaximGun]

Let's get rid of Jewish homosexual atheists instead.

I'd happily throw his skinny frame off a tall building.

[josh987654321]

I agree with James that sentient AI is nonsense, but I also agree with Andy that it can very much appear real and be dangerous due to the massive amount of data fed into it from real sentient beings (us) online and ability to use, process and manipulate such data in ways we cannot imagine (as for some people their whole lives are online being collected and fed into these AI systems IMO).

I think they already have and are using powerful AI fed with all of our data online that they can use to then manipulate us in massive ways. I think our best defense is 'shit posting', spelling mistakes and sarcasm lol, not that I would ever 'shit post' because I don't think it's constructive, but new 'slang' etc, like Fr Mark Goring referring to the jabs in a very code way (which was very wise of him at the time) etc.

God Bless

[andy]

I actually was arguing that sentience as such, since it is not supernatural, in theory could be replicated in software. However, such computing power does not exist even to do that on a very simple level. Feeling is just a feedback mechanism, although animals are not aware of their feelings.

There are reinforcement learning algorithms with feedback loops controlled by a value function https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reinforcement_learning which in a way is just an equivalent of I feel good or I feel bad situation.

[james03]

I actually was arguing that sentience as such, since it is not supernatural, in theory could be replicated in software.

Sentience IS immaterial.  AI at the end of the day moves electrons around.  It can't understand anything and can not perceive qualia: sight, touch, smell, etc...

I gave the example of "grape".  Youtube has built a powerful AI that can scan videos and flag videos with words that would be objectionable to advertisers.  One word was "rape".  The video bloggers simply said "grape" instead.  The audience, which has immaterial souls perceived it instantly.  The AI could not.

This is because AI is confined to the material layer.  It gets back to me saying "three" and a frenchman saying 'trois".  We are referencing the same immaterial concept.  "Grape" in the context of the videos references the same immaterial concept referenced by "rape".

This is an obstacle that AI can not overcome because AI is material.  A sentient being will now have to train the AI to also flag "grape".  The video bloggers will say "concrete" instead.  The audience will perceive the overriding immaterial concept instantly, and the AI will miss it yet again.

Feeling is just a feedback mechanism,

"Feeling" is the perception of qualia.  It is a 100% immaterial.  WHAT is felt is presented materially as a neural bit code, which is the endpoint of a sensing function.  "Fear" does not materially exist.  You brain sees a snake (sense of sight) and presents a neural bitcode of 10001101010.  10001101010 is not "fear", it is just a sequence of open and closed neural synapses.  The soul then interprets it and PERCEIVES fear.

[andy]

Is sentience super natural?

Is a sequence of bits used to encode a book or a thought just a electronic material signal or a meaning behind it is immaterial too?

[james03]

I prefer the term immaterial, but supernatural seems synonymous.

Sentience is knowing that you exist.  It is immaterial and also immortal.  It will be the source of grave suffering for those in hell because they will be separated from God.

Perception deals with concepts and qualia.

At the material layer bit codes are used to store and communicate information.  Information is immaterial and kind of like a super class.

A "thought" is a complex operation.  It has a material level (changes in synapse states) and an immaterial level which perceives the information and directs the operations.

[andy]

I prefer the term immaterial, but supernatural seems synonymous.

I think this is the root of our disagreement here. Supernatural is absolutely beyond material and immaterial. For example. A piece of information or knowledge is immaterial yet not supernatural. Perhaps a better distinction would be immaterial vs spiritual. A piece of information or a knowledge is not spiritual nor supernatural yet it is immaterial. Also computers process immaterial information using material means.

In fact, the matter itself is more immaterial than material, when we look at it closer.

[james03]

Perhaps a better distinction would be immaterial vs spiritual.

Yep, that's the distinction I make.  It will be in my last book talking about "Immaterial Realism".

Spiritual is the perceiving immaterial.  Information is not spiritual, but it is immaterial as you say.

[andy]

And objective feelings we experience are an information too. If I step on my cat's tail, it will feel it, yell and likely bite me as well. There is nothing spiritual in it.

[Julio]

^^I disagree for the animal as living creature is among God's creation. Computers are akin to the tools of chimps. Their existence has nothing to do with how God made them. The existence of other living creatures are of God's goodness.

All of them are information as they are. All living creatures that emanated from the design of God has inherent spirituality in them whereas the manmade computers and other animal creation like birds nest are without any spirituality in them.

"But now ask the beasts to teach you, the birds of the air to tell you; Or speak to the earth to instruct you, and the fish of the sea to inform you. Which of all these does not know that the hand of God has done this? In his hand is the soul of every living thing, and the life breath of all mortal flesh." (Job 12; 7,8,9 & 10)

For sure brutes has no soul that is the same as those that God made for humans, but every living thing has its soul that is from God.

Perception by the created is not something that can be transferred to the creation, unless made by God. Just my thoughts, Andy.

[andy]

And airplanes fly too.

St. Thomas teaches that we learn about the world from our senses. Which are 100% material. Our brain which processes that, with more or less success, is 100% material as well. Our bodies functions, those which we are aware, and foremost those which are not not aware and are vital for existence, are 100% material as well.

Moreover, our sanctified (or damned) bodies after resurrection will still exist now immortally united with our souls. Animals, which are sentient as well, will not resurrect. The world will end.