What are your thoughts on The Beatles?

[TheReturnofLive]

Aside from their prophecy in Helter Skelter of the inevitable Apocalyptic Race War.

[Heinrich]

Agents of Satan. Electric Guitars with diaphonic, disordered rhythms with homosexual melodies.

[TheReturnofLive]

How so? And why "homosexual melodies?" I think that some of their songs are undoubtedly lustful ("Baby you can drive my car" gives worship to the infamous and morally repulsive "casting couch"), and some of the individual Beatles would later be especially, maliciously anti-Christian (George Harrison put "Hare Krishna" in "My Sweet Lord" to prove a point that Christians are ignorant), but why "homosexual?"

Is it just because of the Rock and Roll genre as a whole? Or is there something particular about the Beatles?

[Non Nobis]

I was attracted to classical music even in grade school and when my friends all got "into" the Beatles I was repelled by them, in particular "She loves you, yeah, yeah, yeah". But as I got older I got to enjoy some of their songs as being at least "catchy" and some of them rather pretty.  (Note that I've always had a problem understanding the words of modern songs (they were modern to me then!!) - which is lucky for me even now (I sometimes listen to country).)

Since I didn't learn many of the words, and didn't follow them or listen extensively, I can't say much about them from my own personal experience.  But I do know that John Lennon in particular was anti-religious (or anti- any kind of true religion). Here's some proof (WAY too much more than you were looking for!):

http://www.celebatheists.com/wiki/John_Lennon
Lyrics From his 1970 song "God" (album "Plastic Ono Band"):

God is a concept by which we can measure our pain...
I don't believe in magic, I don't believe in I-ching,
I don't believe in bible, I don't believe in tarot,
I don't believe in Hitler, I don't believe in Jesus,
I don't believe in Kennedy, I don't believe in Buddha,
I don't believe in mantra, I don't believe in Gita,
I don't believe in yoga, I don't believe in kings,
I don't believe in Elvis, I don't believe in Zimmerman,
I don't believe in Beatles...
I just believe in me, Yoko and me, and that's reality.'


Lyrics From his 1970 song "I Found Out" (album "Plastic Ono Band"):

There ain't no Jesus gonna come from the sky,
Now that I found out I know I can cry.

Old Hare Krishna got nothing on you.
Just keep you crazy with nothing to do.
Keep you occupied with pie in the sky,
there ain't no guru who can see through your eyes.


Lyrics from his 1971 song "Imagine":

Imagine there's no heaven, it's easy if you try.
No hell below us, above us only sky.


Lyrics from his 1979 home demo "Serve Yourself":

You say you found Jesus Christ;
He's the only one.
You say you've found Buddha,
Sittin' in the sun.
You say you found Mohammed,
Facin' to the East.
You say you found Krishna,
Dancin' in the streets.
Well there's somethin' missing in this God Almighty stew,
And it's your mother,
You got to serve yourself,
Ain't nobody gonna do it for you.
You got to serve yourself,
Ain't nobody gonna do it for you.

It's still the same old story,
A bloody Holy War,
A fight for love and glory.
Ain't gonna study war no more.
A fight for God and country.
We're gonna set you free,
We'll put you back in the Stone Age,
If you won't be like me, get it?
You got to serve yourself,
Ain't nobody gonna do for you.
You got to serve yourself,
Ain't nobody gonna do for you

You tell me you found Jesus Christ,
Well that's great, and he's the only one.
You say you just found Buddha,
Sittin' on his ass, in the sun.
You say you found Mohammed,
Kneeling on a bloody carpet, facin' the East.
You say you found Krishna,
With a bald head, dancin' in the street.
(Well, Christ, now you're being heard.)

Well, you may believe in Jesus, and you may believe in Marx,
And you may believe in Marks and Spencer's,
And you may believe in bloody Woolworths,
But there's something missing in this whole bloody stew.
And it's your mother; your poor, bloody, mother.

It's still the same old story.
A Holy, bloody, War, you know, with the Pope and all that stuff.
A fight for love and glory.
Ain't gonna study no more war.
A fight for God and country, and the Queen, and all that.
We're gonna set you free;
Bomb you back into the fuckin' Stone Age
If you won't be like me, you know, get down on your knees and pray.
Well there's somethin' missing in this God Almighty stew,
And it's your goddamn mother you dirty little git, now.
Get in there and wash yer ears!

In a 1965 Playboy interview:

Paul McCartney: "We probably seem antireligious because of the fact that none of us believe in God."

Lennon: "If you say you don't believe in God, everybody assumes you're antireligious, and you probably think that's what we mean by that.


In a 1966 Interview:

"Christianity will go. It will vanish and shrink. I needn't argue with that; I'm right and I will be proved right. We're more popular than Jesus now; I don't know which will go first - rock and roll or Christianity."

"I believe in God, but not as one thing, not as an old man in the sky. I believe that what people call God is something in all of us. I believe that what Jesus and Mohammed and Buddha and all the rest said was right. It's just that the translations have gone wrong."

1969 interview by David Wigg:

I don't need to go to church. I respect churches because of the sacredness that's been put on them over the years by people who do believe. But I think a lot of bad things have happened in the name of the church and in the name of Christ. Therefore I shy away from church, and as Donovan once said, "I go to my own church in my own temple once a day." And I think people who need a church should go. And the others who know the church is in your own head should visit that temple because that's where the source is. We're all God.

1970 interview by Jann Wenner:

I was just talking about Christianity, in that - a thing like you have to be tortured to attain heaven. [...] - be tortured and then it'll be alright, which seems to be a bit true but not in their concept of it. But I didn't believe in that, that you have to be tortured to attain anything, it just so happens that you were.

I think this all carried over to the other Beatles and to me it overrides any kind of possible good in their music.

[Heinrich]

How so? And why "homosexual melodies?" I think that some of their songs are undoubtedly lustful ("Baby you can drive my car" gives worship to the infamous and morally repulsive "casting couch"), and some of the individual Beatles would later be especially, maliciously anti-Christian (George Harrison put "Hare Krishna" in "My Sweet Lord" to prove a point that Christians are ignorant), but why "homosexual?"

Is it just because of the Rock and Roll genre as a whole? Or is there something particular about the Beatles?

Rock n Roll in general.

[TheReturnofLive]

I was attracted to classical music even in grade school and when my friends all got "into" the Beatles I was repelled by them, in particular "She loves you, yeah, yeah, yeah". But as I got older I got to enjoy some of their songs as being at least "catchy" and some of them rather pretty.  (Note that I've always had a problem understanding the words of modern songs (they were modern to me then!!) - which is lucky for me even now (I sometimes listen to country).)

Since I didn't learn many of the words, and didn't follow them or listen extensively, I can't say much about them from my own personal experience.  But I do know that John Lennon in particular was anti-religious (or anti- any kind of true religion). Here's some proof (WAY too much more than you were looking for!):

http://www.celebatheists.com/wiki/John_Lennon
Lyrics From his 1970 song "God" (album "Plastic Ono Band"):

God is a concept by which we can measure our pain...
I don't believe in magic, I don't believe in I-ching,
I don't believe in bible, I don't believe in tarot,
I don't believe in Hitler, I don't believe in Jesus,
I don't believe in Kennedy, I don't believe in Buddha,
I don't believe in mantra, I don't believe in Gita,
I don't believe in yoga, I don't believe in kings,
I don't believe in Elvis, I don't believe in Zimmerman,
I don't believe in Beatles...
I just believe in me, Yoko and me, and that's reality.'


Lyrics From his 1970 song "I Found Out" (album "Plastic Ono Band"):

There ain't no Jesus gonna come from the sky,
Now that I found out I know I can cry.

Old Hare Krishna got nothing on you.
Just keep you crazy with nothing to do.
Keep you occupied with pie in the sky,
there ain't no guru who can see through your eyes.


Lyrics from his 1971 song "Imagine":

Imagine there's no heaven, it's easy if you try.
No hell below us, above us only sky.


Lyrics from his 1979 home demo "Serve Yourself":

You say you found Jesus Christ;
He's the only one.
You say you've found Buddha,
Sittin' in the sun.
You say you found Mohammed,
Facin' to the East.
You say you found Krishna,
Dancin' in the streets.
Well there's somethin' missing in this God Almighty stew,
And it's your mother,
You got to serve yourself,
Ain't nobody gonna do it for you.
You got to serve yourself,
Ain't nobody gonna do it for you.

It's still the same old story,
A bloody Holy War,
A fight for love and glory.
Ain't gonna study war no more.
A fight for God and country.
We're gonna set you free,
We'll put you back in the Stone Age,
If you won't be like me, get it?
You got to serve yourself,
Ain't nobody gonna do for you.
You got to serve yourself,
Ain't nobody gonna do for you

You tell me you found Jesus Christ,
Well that's great, and he's the only one.
You say you just found Buddha,
Sittin' on his ass, in the sun.
You say you found Mohammed,
Kneeling on a bloody carpet, facin' the East.
You say you found Krishna,
With a bald head, dancin' in the street.
(Well, Christ, now you're being heard.)

Well, you may believe in Jesus, and you may believe in Marx,
And you may believe in Marks and Spencer's,
And you may believe in bloody Woolworths,
But there's something missing in this whole bloody stew.
And it's your mother; your poor, bloody, mother.

It's still the same old story.
A Holy, bloody, War, you know, with the Pope and all that stuff.
A fight for love and glory.
Ain't gonna study no more war.
A fight for God and country, and the Queen, and all that.
We're gonna set you free;
Bomb you back into the fuckin' Stone Age
If you won't be like me, you know, get down on your knees and pray.
Well there's somethin' missing in this God Almighty stew,
And it's your goddamn mother you dirty little git, now.
Get in there and wash yer ears!

In a 1965 Playboy interview:

Paul McCartney: "We probably seem antireligious because of the fact that none of us believe in God."

Lennon: "If you say you don't believe in God, everybody assumes you're antireligious, and you probably think that's what we mean by that.


In a 1966 Interview:

"Christianity will go. It will vanish and shrink. I needn't argue with that; I'm right and I will be proved right. We're more popular than Jesus now; I don't know which will go first - rock and roll or Christianity."

"I believe in God, but not as one thing, not as an old man in the sky. I believe that what people call God is something in all of us. I believe that what Jesus and Mohammed and Buddha and all the rest said was right. It's just that the translations have gone wrong."

1969 interview by David Wigg:

I don't need to go to church. I respect churches because of the sacredness that's been put on them over the years by people who do believe. But I think a lot of bad things have happened in the name of the church and in the name of Christ. Therefore I shy away from church, and as Donovan once said, "I go to my own church in my own temple once a day." And I think people who need a church should go. And the others who know the church is in your own head should visit that temple because that's where the source is. We're all God.

1970 interview by Jann Wenner:

I was just talking about Christianity, in that - a thing like you have to be tortured to attain heaven. [...] - be tortured and then it'll be alright, which seems to be a bit true but not in their concept of it. But I didn't believe in that, that you have to be tortured to attain anything, it just so happens that you were.

I think this all carried over to the other Beatles and to me it overrides any kind of possible good in their music.

It's no secret that John Lennon and George Harrison were militant atheists - like I said, George Harrison's song "My Sweet Lord" has "Hare Krishna," "Hare Rama," "Guru Brahma," etc., which are all Hindu mantras, to make fun of Christians.


It's also no secret that the Beatles themselves were very interested in Eastern Mysticism and hallucinogenic drugs.





https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-news/beatles-acid-test-how-lsd-opened-the-door-to-revolver-251417/



The question is, for the Beatles specifically, did this influence their music to a substantial degree, such that all of their music is in of itself evil?

Most of the militant atheist music work that came out from the Beatles happened after the splitting of the Beatles by Harrison and Lennon. The only song that I know of that it seems explicitly anti-religious that came out during the era of the Beatles is "Eleanor Rigby."

And some of their song does contain immoral material - notably some of their earlier promiscuous material, like "Drive my Car."

But I don't know of any of their other songs that I would consider "harmful to my relationship with God."

[Gardener]

[Armor of Light]

Never got into them. Just like a host of other highly influential bands...just never really bought into them, and I don't get why they were so great. All mediocre musicians and stupid songwriters. Of that era, the Who were far superior. The Stones as well.

[Prayerful]

They were a boyband of the era, albeit with a far highly level of skill. In about John Lennon and Yoko Ono produced a record of one David Peel 'the Pope Smokes Dope.' It is a fairly coarse bit of rubbish, unworthy of John Lennon, but given what Paul VI had presided over, it is a suggestion worthy of  consideration. Sometimes conniving with Mgsr Bugnini, sometimes detached, sometimes weeping over what he'd done, Montini could have been on some sort of bad trip.

[TheReturnofLive]

Never got into them. Just like a host of other highly influential bands...just never really bought into them, and I don't get why they were so great. All mediocre musicians and stupid songwriters. Of that era, the Who were far superior. The Stones as well.

For years now, I thought similarly, but I've come to the conclusion rather recently that they are superior.

Here's my opinion
While I believe the Who and the Stones were talented bands - some of the greatest in the genre of rock and roll...
how do I express it.

In life, there's these rare instances of artists- whether it's an author, a composer, a painter, a poet, etc., whose work have this almost non-temporal quality to them, whose work can relate to you on an extremely personal level depending on your temporal circumstances, that the author may not have ever possibly foreseen. Not each individual work in of themselves, but rather, their total work as a collective.

It's obviously not the same of course, not even close - but look at the Book of Psalms for example. Again, I'll repeat it, the Beatles come nowhere near the Psalms. But the Book of Psalms have this character compared to all the books of the Bible, due to the Word Selection, the Grammar, the Imagery, the Emotion - where you can literally pick up and read the Psalms, and you will feel like the author wrote those specific words to you specifically in your specific circumstances.

What I think, of course, makes this especially better is while they all explicitly apply to the circumstances of Israel, and they all apply to the circumstances of who you are, they also rather clearly and explicitly apply to Christ, which allows one to grow closer to who Christ is.
(This is most explicitly clear out of all the Psalms with Psalm 22, Psalm 41, and Psalm 110).

And this is something that Saint Athanasius - one of the greatest Saints in the history of the world - duly noted.

"You see, then, that the grace of the one Spirit is common to every writer and all the books of Scripture, and differs in its expression only as need requires and the Spirit wills. Obviously, therefore, the only thing that matters is for each writer to hold fast unyieldingly the grace he personally has received and so fulfil perfectly his individual mission. And, among all the books, the Psalter has certainly a very special grace, a choiceness of quality well worthy to be pondered; for, besides the characteristics which it shares with others, it has this peculiar marvel of its own, that within it are represented and portrayed in all their great variety the movements of the human soul. It is like a picture, in which you see yourself portrayed, and seeing, may understand and consequently form yourself upon the pattern given. Elsewhere in the Bible you read only that the Law commands this or that to be done, you listen to the Prophets to learn about the Saviour's coming, or you turn to the historical books to learn the doings of the kings and holy men; but in the Psalter, besides all these things, you learn about yourself. You find depicted in it all the movements of your soul, all its changes, its ups and downs, its failures and recoveries. Moreover, whatever your particular need or trouble, from this same book you can select a form of words to fit it, so that you do not merely hear and then pass on, but learn the way to remedy your ill. Prohibitions of evil-doing are plentiful in Scripture, but only the Psalter tells you how to obey these orders and abstain from sin. Repentance, for example, is enjoined repeatedly; but to repent means to leave off sinning, and it is the Psalms that show you how to set about repenting and with what words your penitence may be expressed. Again, Saint Paul says, Tribulation worketh endurance, and endurance experience, and experience hope, and hope maketh not ashamed [Rom 5:3, 5]; but it is in the Psalms that we find written and described how afflictions should be borne, and what the afflicted ought to say, both at the time and when his troubles cease: the whole process of his testing is set forth in them and we are shown exactly with what words to voice our hope in God. Or take the commandment, In everything give thanks. [1 Thess 5:18] The Psalms not only exhort us to be thankful, they also provide us with fitting words to say. We are told, too, by other writers that all who would live godly in Christ must suffer persecution;[2 Tim 3:12] and here again the Psalms supply words with which both those who flee persecution and those who suffer under it may suitably address themselves to God, and it does the same for those who have been rescued from it. We are bidden elsewhere in the Bible also to bless the Lord and to acknowledge Him: here in the Psalms we are shown the way to do it, and with what sort of words His majesty may meetly be confessed. In fact, under all the circumstances of life, we shall find that these divine songs suit ourselves and meet our own souls' need at every turn."

https://www.athanasius.com/psalms/aletterm.htm



For what their secular music is able to obtain (nothing close to sacred chant or the Scriptures), the Beatles also - in what they were capable of - were able to obtain a similar type of "non-temporal" nature, where - for a significant portion of what they have written, not all of course -  particularly the more beautiful ones - they can get rather intimate to the circumstances of where you are in life just based on their composition, the style of music, the word choice, etc.


Some songs like "The Long and Winding Road," "Blackbird," "Yesterday," "Dear Prudence," and of course their variety of heart-broken songs like "Ticket to Ride," are just some examples of such music.


As talented as somebody like the Stones were, that kind of non-temporal nature is not accessible. When I hear "Gimme Shelter," "Paint it Black," "Beast of Burden," etc., while I think that - for the rock genre - they are great pieces, there's no personal or emotional connection with who I am personally. I hear those songs which have a single, unilateral purpose, stuck strictly in the time period of the 60s.

[TheReturnofLive]

How so? And why "homosexual melodies?" I think that some of their songs are undoubtedly lustful ("Baby you can drive my car" gives worship to the infamous and morally repulsive "casting couch"), and some of the individual Beatles would later be especially, maliciously anti-Christian (George Harrison put "Hare Krishna" in "My Sweet Lord" to prove a point that Christians are ignorant), but why "homosexual?"

Is it just because of the Rock and Roll genre as a whole? Or is there something particular about the Beatles?

Rock n Roll in general.

Could you elaborate?

[Traditionallyruralmom]

rock and roll...blegh...I was raised on it. My parents walked down the isle in their Catholic wedding in the 70's to a Beatles tune...Vivid memories of The Beatles, Hendrix, Aerosmith, Led Zeppelin,Rolling Stones, The Who ect ad nauseum... I remember telling my mom when I was about 7 that Pink Floyd was my favorite band.  I was going to Grateful Dead concerts when I was 11.  I was totally formed on rock and roll.  I don't listen to it anymore. 

Ok, when I paint walls, I listen to the Jerry Garcia band...A few certain live shows that I adore.  I dont know, but JCB, hours spent with paint and hard cider just seem to go hand in hand

[Gardener]

Pink Floyd wasn't really in the same vein as groups like The Beatles, The Who, or The Rolling Stones. They were much more artistic, and Roger Waters has continued this in his later career with incorporating audio from newscasts, ambient background noises, audio from movies, etc. He doesn't write and sing songs, but rather paints them anew every night on the canvas of the audience's ear drums. He's what happens when merry olde England trades the Faith for boyish waif women adultery  and Blake's "dark, satanic mills" - Waters can't escape the greatness of his cultural past. The Beatles are what happens when a few ruffians try to emulate American ruffians but can't escape some level of being Brits.

"When the tigers broke free" or "Too Much Rope" ain't exactly "I want to hold your hand".

[Armor of Light]

The only band I "get" less than the Beatles is Pink Floyd. I like stuff that ROCKS!

[TheReturnofLive]

Pink Floyd wasn't really in the same vein as groups like The Beatles, The Who, or The Rolling Stones. They were much more artistic, and Roger Waters has continued this in his later career with incorporating audio from newscasts, ambient background noises, audio from movies, etc. He doesn't write and sing songs, but rather paints them anew every night on the canvas of the audience's ear drums. He's what happens when merry olde England trades the Faith for boyish waif women adultery  and Blake's "dark, satanic mills" - Waters can't escape the greatness of his cultural past. The Beatles are what happens when a few ruffians try to emulate American ruffians but can't escape some level of being Brits.

"When the tigers broke free" or "Too Much Rope" ain't exactly "I want to hold your hand".

What about the Beatles' later, more experimental songs like "I am the Walrus", "A Day in Life," or even "Revolution 9"?