Author Topic: St. John Cantius bites the dust  (Read 4425 times)

Offline andy

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Re: St. John Cantius bites the dust
« Reply #30 on: December 29, 2021, 10:06:03 PM »
The church is so beautiful. I visited it year ago and was immensely impressed. They also have a great collection of relics including the Relic from Crown of Thorns (which I kind of doubt it)
 

Offline lauermar

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Re: St. John Cantius bites the dust
« Reply #31 on: December 30, 2021, 05:27:30 AM »
Quote
With all of this in mind, I dose by recalling the insightful observation of Pope Benedict XVI when he issued Summorum Pontificum: "The surest guarantee that the Missal of Paul VI can unite parish communities and be loved by them consists in its being celebrated with great reverence in harmony with the liturgical directives. This will bring cut the spiritual richness and the theological depth of this Missal."
Sincerely yours in Christ,
Blase Card. Cupich
Archbishop of Chicago

Sad thing is that the beautiful church will close down if they go.
They sank millions of dollars into restoring that old church. It will be a painful lesson for them. I wish them well as they were one of the first trad. organizations I contacted back when I was still a cautious and timid NOer/trad-lite, afraid to stray from communion with the Vatican.

We're still waiting for the spiritual richness and theological depth to come out after 50 years......

Yeah, just keep on waiting for hell to freeze over. You'd rather deny than be aware of the marches downtown and the pro-life teens standing all day in the freezing cold in DC just like Nicholas Sandman. My daughter was one of them during her high school years.

That church will still be standing long after some of you have left it. Francis has tempted me to leave many times, but as of right now I'm staying.

I wasn't aware marches and pro-life teens were going to get us into heaven?  :huh: More seriously, yes they are good things but good things I could have in common with an evangelical, a muslim, a jew or even an atheist. They don't have much, explicitly, to do with the faith and that's what is needed to get us where we want to go. The ends don't justify the means, the good results of pro-life marches and teens don't justify sacrilege or any of the other many sins the NO allows or encourages, and inevitably any good fruits will likely be rotten. We can see this from Francis's many ambigous statements regarding pro-life and other moral matters.

In any event, in your situation, I am certainly not encouraging you not to go to SJC. If your conscience is well formed and you believe it requires you to go there that is where you must go, neither I nor anyone else on here knows your personal situation only you, your family and your priest do. Although inevitably an SJC priest is not going to tell you that you shouldn't attend the NO, but you could find an SSPX one for example. In my situation I could not go because my, I believe, well formed conscience clearly tells me attending even a reverent NO would be sinful for the reasons others have outlined.

I don't need your permission to attend SJC nor your unfounded opinion that my pariah is a sin. I've never seen a Jewish or Muslim March with BVM in Chicago. So no, the have zero in common.
"I am not a pessimist. I am not an optimist. I am a realist." Father Malachi Martin (1921-1999)
 

Offline trentcath

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Re: St. John Cantius bites the dust
« Reply #32 on: December 30, 2021, 05:51:11 AM »
Quote
With all of this in mind, I dose by recalling the insightful observation of Pope Benedict XVI when he issued Summorum Pontificum: "The surest guarantee that the Missal of Paul VI can unite parish communities and be loved by them consists in its being celebrated with great reverence in harmony with the liturgical directives. This will bring cut the spiritual richness and the theological depth of this Missal."
Sincerely yours in Christ,
Blase Card. Cupich
Archbishop of Chicago

Sad thing is that the beautiful church will close down if they go.
They sank millions of dollars into restoring that old church. It will be a painful lesson for them. I wish them well as they were one of the first trad. organizations I contacted back when I was still a cautious and timid NOer/trad-lite, afraid to stray from communion with the Vatican.

We're still waiting for the spiritual richness and theological depth to come out after 50 years......

Yeah, just keep on waiting for hell to freeze over. You'd rather deny than be aware of the marches downtown and the pro-life teens standing all day in the freezing cold in DC just like Nicholas Sandman. My daughter was one of them during her high school years.

That church will still be standing long after some of you have left it. Francis has tempted me to leave many times, but as of right now I'm staying.

I wasn't aware marches and pro-life teens were going to get us into heaven?  :huh: More seriously, yes they are good things but good things I could have in common with an evangelical, a muslim, a jew or even an atheist. They don't have much, explicitly, to do with the faith and that's what is needed to get us where we want to go. The ends don't justify the means, the good results of pro-life marches and teens don't justify sacrilege or any of the other many sins the NO allows or encourages, and inevitably any good fruits will likely be rotten. We can see this from Francis's many ambigous statements regarding pro-life and other moral matters.

In any event, in your situation, I am certainly not encouraging you not to go to SJC. If your conscience is well formed and you believe it requires you to go there that is where you must go, neither I nor anyone else on here knows your personal situation only you, your family and your priest do. Although inevitably an SJC priest is not going to tell you that you shouldn't attend the NO, but you could find an SSPX one for example. In my situation I could not go because my, I believe, well formed conscience clearly tells me attending even a reverent NO would be sinful for the reasons others have outlined.

I don't need your permission to attend SJC nor your unfounded opinion that my pariah is a sin. I've never seen a Jewish or Muslim March with BVM in Chicago. So no, the have zero in common.

If you had read my comments you would know I never said anything about you attending SJC. I merely pointed out that for me attending the NO is a sin and explained why, also there are many examples of pro-life muslims, jews etc... And I am sure some attended pro-life marches. Your whole post sounds like a serious dose of cope but if that's what your well formed conscience tells you to do  :shrug:
 

Offline Innocent Smith

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Re: St. John Cantius bites the dust
« Reply #33 on: December 30, 2021, 11:25:55 AM »
Quote
With all of this in mind, I dose by recalling the insightful observation of Pope Benedict XVI when he issued Summorum Pontificum: "The surest guarantee that the Missal of Paul VI can unite parish communities and be loved by them consists in its being celebrated with great reverence in harmony with the liturgical directives. This will bring cut the spiritual richness and the theological depth of this Missal."
Sincerely yours in Christ,
Blase Card. Cupich
Archbishop of Chicago

Sad thing is that the beautiful church will close down if they go.
They sank millions of dollars into restoring that old church. It will be a painful lesson for them. I wish them well as they were one of the first trad. organizations I contacted back when I was still a cautious and timid NOer/trad-lite, afraid to stray from communion with the Vatican.

We're still waiting for the spiritual richness and theological depth to come out after 50 years......

Yeah, just keep on waiting for hell to freeze over. You'd rather deny than be aware of the marches downtown and the pro-life teens standing all day in the freezing cold in DC just like Nicholas Sandman. My daughter was one of them during her high school years.

That church will still be standing long after some of you have left it. Francis has tempted me to leave many times, but as of right now I'm staying.

I wasn't aware marches and pro-life teens were going to get us into heaven?  :huh: More seriously, yes they are good things but good things I could have in common with an evangelical, a muslim, a jew or even an atheist. They don't have much, explicitly, to do with the faith and that's what is needed to get us where we want to go. The ends don't justify the means, the good results of pro-life marches and teens don't justify sacrilege or any of the other many sins the NO allows or encourages, and inevitably any good fruits will likely be rotten. We can see this from Francis's many ambigous statements regarding pro-life and other moral matters.

In any event, in your situation, I am certainly not encouraging you not to go to SJC. If your conscience is well formed and you believe it requires you to go there that is where you must go, neither I nor anyone else on here knows your personal situation only you, your family and your priest do. Although inevitably an SJC priest is not going to tell you that you shouldn't attend the NO, but you could find an SSPX one for example. In my situation I could not go because my, I believe, well formed conscience clearly tells me attending even a reverent NO would be sinful for the reasons others have outlined.

I don't need your permission to attend SJC nor your unfounded opinion that my pariah is a sin. I've never seen a Jewish or Muslim March with BVM in Chicago. So no, the have zero in common.

If you had read my comments you would know I never said anything about you attending SJC. I merely pointed out that for me attending the NO is a sin and explained why, also there are many examples of pro-life muslims, jews etc... And I am sure some attended pro-life marches. Your whole post sounds like a serious dose of cope but if that's what your well formed conscience tells you to do  :shrug:

If attending Mass, the ordinary form as celebrated everyday around the world be sinful, then the Church no longer exists.

Period.

You really ought to put your energy to other, more fruitful, pursuits.
I am going to hold a pistol to the head of the modern man. But I shall not use it to kill him, only to bring him to life.
 

Offline Goldfinch

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Re: St. John Cantius bites the dust
« Reply #34 on: December 30, 2021, 11:36:10 AM »
If attending Mass, the ordinary form as celebrated everyday around the world be sinful, then the Church no longer exists.

Period.

Rather, if the NOM were the lex credendi of the Church, then the Church would no longer exist. However, the true mass and the true sacraments still exist and will hold the candle of faith until Our Lord steps in to restore His Bride to her glory.
"For there are no works of power, dearly-beloved, without the trials of temptations, there is no faith without proof, no contest without a foe, no victory without conflict. This life of ours is in the midst of snares, in the midst of battles; if we do not wish to be deceived, we must watch: if we want to overcome, we must fight." - St. Leo the Great
 
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Offline trentcath

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Re: St. John Cantius bites the dust
« Reply #35 on: December 30, 2021, 12:07:42 PM »
Quote
With all of this in mind, I dose by recalling the insightful observation of Pope Benedict XVI when he issued Summorum Pontificum: "The surest guarantee that the Missal of Paul VI can unite parish communities and be loved by them consists in its being celebrated with great reverence in harmony with the liturgical directives. This will bring cut the spiritual richness and the theological depth of this Missal."
Sincerely yours in Christ,
Blase Card. Cupich
Archbishop of Chicago

Sad thing is that the beautiful church will close down if they go.
They sank millions of dollars into restoring that old church. It will be a painful lesson for them. I wish them well as they were one of the first trad. organizations I contacted back when I was still a cautious and timid NOer/trad-lite, afraid to stray from communion with the Vatican.

We're still waiting for the spiritual richness and theological depth to come out after 50 years......

Yeah, just keep on waiting for hell to freeze over. You'd rather deny than be aware of the marches downtown and the pro-life teens standing all day in the freezing cold in DC just like Nicholas Sandman. My daughter was one of them during her high school years.

That church will still be standing long after some of you have left it. Francis has tempted me to leave many times, but as of right now I'm staying.

I wasn't aware marches and pro-life teens were going to get us into heaven?  :huh: More seriously, yes they are good things but good things I could have in common with an evangelical, a muslim, a jew or even an atheist. They don't have much, explicitly, to do with the faith and that's what is needed to get us where we want to go. The ends don't justify the means, the good results of pro-life marches and teens don't justify sacrilege or any of the other many sins the NO allows or encourages, and inevitably any good fruits will likely be rotten. We can see this from Francis's many ambigous statements regarding pro-life and other moral matters.

In any event, in your situation, I am certainly not encouraging you not to go to SJC. If your conscience is well formed and you believe it requires you to go there that is where you must go, neither I nor anyone else on here knows your personal situation only you, your family and your priest do. Although inevitably an SJC priest is not going to tell you that you shouldn't attend the NO, but you could find an SSPX one for example. In my situation I could not go because my, I believe, well formed conscience clearly tells me attending even a reverent NO would be sinful for the reasons others have outlined.

I don't need your permission to attend SJC nor your unfounded opinion that my pariah is a sin. I've never seen a Jewish or Muslim March with BVM in Chicago. So no, the have zero in common.

If you had read my comments you would know I never said anything about you attending SJC. I merely pointed out that for me attending the NO is a sin and explained why, also there are many examples of pro-life muslims, jews etc... And I am sure some attended pro-life marches. Your whole post sounds like a serious dose of cope but if that's what your well formed conscience tells you to do  :shrug:

If attending Mass, the ordinary form as celebrated everyday around the world be sinful, then the Church no longer exists.

Period.

You really ought to put your energy to other, more fruitful, pursuits.

Wow, Innocent Smith locuta est, causa finita est  ::) Thankfully things don't work like that, and seeing as you aren't approaching this in good faith I see little point in disabusing you of your incorrect opinion. There are, almost literally, mountains of works explaining why the NO is sinful and how that does not affect the indefectability of the Church. If you ever wish to see why you are wrong you can read them, charity doesn't oblige me to do anything else.
« Last Edit: December 30, 2021, 12:10:34 PM by trentcath »
 

Offline Maximilian

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Re: St. John Cantius bites the dust
« Reply #36 on: December 30, 2021, 12:15:48 PM »
If attending Mass, the ordinary form as celebrated everyday around the world be sinful, then the Church no longer exists.

Period.

Rather, if the NOM were the lex credendi of the Church, then the Church would no longer exist. However, the true mass and the true sacraments still exist and will hold the candle of faith until Our Lord steps in to restore His Bride to her glory.

We could compare ourselves to the Catholics in England at the time of the Reformation. Was it sinful for them to attend Cranmer's service?

We have to remind ourselves that all the machinery of the "Church" continued in place. They had priests, bishops, churches, cathedrals. But all of them were using the new "Book of Common Prayer" instead of the Catholic Mass. Ordinary lay people could see with their own eyes an enormous entity that called itself the "Church," but did the true Church still exist in that situation?

Meanwhile, in small hiding places in certain homes were a handful of true priests offering the true Mass at the risk of imprisonment, torture and death.
 
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Offline trentcath

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Re: St. John Cantius bites the dust
« Reply #37 on: December 30, 2021, 12:19:56 PM »
If attending Mass, the ordinary form as celebrated everyday around the world be sinful, then the Church no longer exists.

Period.

Rather, if the NOM were the lex credendi of the Church, then the Church would no longer exist. However, the true mass and the true sacraments still exist and will hold the candle of faith until Our Lord steps in to restore His Bride to her glory.

We could compare ourselves to the Catholics in England at the time of the Reformation. Was it sinful for them to attend Cranmer's service?

We have to remind ourselves that all the machinery of the "Church" continued in place. They had priests, bishops, churches, cathedrals. But all of them were using the new "Book of Common Prayer" instead of the Catholic Mass. Ordinary lay people could see with their own eyes an enormous entity that called itself the "Church," but did the true Church still exist in that situation?

Meanwhile, in small hiding places in certain homes were a handful of true priests offering the true Mass at the risk of imprisonment, torture and death.

Or to the church in China which has been hung out to dry by Francis and has, at least with regard to morality, completely lost its way. Although, ironically, I think the patriotic church still has the old rite(or the 1967 depending where) while the actual church has the NO: although I may be wrong.
 
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Offline GiftOfGod

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Re: St. John Cantius bites the dust
« Reply #38 on: December 30, 2021, 01:07:52 PM »
If attending Mass, the ordinary form as celebrated everyday around the world be sinful, then the Church no longer exists.

Period.

Rather, if the NOM were the lex credendi of the Church, then the Church would no longer exist. However, the true mass and the true sacraments still exist and will hold the candle of faith until Our Lord steps in to restore His Bride to her glory.

We could compare ourselves to the Catholics in England at the time of the Reformation. Was it sinful for them to attend Cranmer's service?

We have to remind ourselves that all the machinery of the "Church" continued in place. They had priests, bishops, churches, cathedrals. But all of them were using the new "Book of Common Prayer" instead of the Catholic Mass. Ordinary lay people could see with their own eyes an enormous entity that called itself the "Church," but did the true Church still exist in that situation?

Meanwhile, in small hiding places in certain homes were a handful of true priests offering the true Mass at the risk of imprisonment, torture and death.
This is the best post I've seen on SD.
If attending Mass, the ordinary form as celebrated everyday around the world be sinful, then the Church no longer exists. Period.
Rather, if the NOM were the lex credendi of the Church, then the Church would no longer exist. However, the true mass and the true sacraments still exist and will hold the candle of faith until Our Lord steps in to restore His Bride to her glory.
We could compare ourselves to the Catholics in England at the time of the Reformation. Was it sinful for them to attend Cranmer's service?
We have to remind ourselves that all the machinery of the "Church" continued in place. They had priests, bishops, churches, cathedrals. But all of them were using the new "Book of Common Prayer" instead of the Catholic Mass. Ordinary lay people could see with their own eyes an enormous entity that called itself the "Church," but did the true Church still exist in that situation? Meanwhile, in small hiding places in certain homes were a handful of true priests offering the true Mass at the risk of imprisonment, torture and death.

 
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Offline Prayerful

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Re: St. John Cantius bites the dust
« Reply #39 on: December 30, 2021, 01:20:59 PM »
If attending Mass, the ordinary form as celebrated everyday around the world be sinful, then the Church no longer exists.

Period.

Rather, if the NOM were the lex credendi of the Church, then the Church would no longer exist. However, the true mass and the true sacraments still exist and will hold the candle of faith until Our Lord steps in to restore His Bride to her glory.

We could compare ourselves to the Catholics in England at the time of the Reformation. Was it sinful for them to attend Cranmer's service?

We have to remind ourselves that all the machinery of the "Church" continued in place. They had priests, bishops, churches, cathedrals. But all of them were using the new "Book of Common Prayer" instead of the Catholic Mass. Ordinary lay people could see with their own eyes an enormous entity that called itself the "Church," but did the true Church still exist in that situation?

Meanwhile, in small hiding places in certain homes were a handful of true priests offering the true Mass at the risk of imprisonment, torture and death.

Or to the church in China which has been hung out to dry by Francis and has, at least with regard to morality, completely lost its way. Although, ironically, I think the patriotic church still has the old rite(or the 1967 depending where) while the actual church has the NO: although I may be wrong.

The CPCA has permitted the New Order for some time now, since the 1990s, which is some irony as the texts are usually prepared in Taiwan, although CPCA look more traditional than the usual run of Conciliar priest. The celebrant of the first permitted Novus Ordo was one Fr Joseph Zen on 30th September 1989. Increasingly the CPCA traditional Mass is only offered as a facility to the very elderly in places. Francis could well have been thinking of the danger posed by a large scale use of the traditional Mass offered by priests with traditional orders, albeit in schism, when he made his deal.
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Offline GaudeMariaVirgo

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Re: St. John Cantius bites the dust
« Reply #40 on: December 30, 2021, 11:31:46 PM »
This is terribly sad news. SJC was our home parish until last month, when we moved out of Chicago for family reasons. My husband & myself (as converts) and both of our children were baptized here. We personally know the priests & seminarians of the Canons and they are a wonderful, solid group who have had a difficult tightrope to walk under Cupich even before now. I am praying for them and for the fate of our beautiful church  :'(
 
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Offline Kaesekopf

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Re: St. John Cantius bites the dust
« Reply #41 on: January 15, 2022, 04:34:58 PM »
Quote
Half of the masses are were in Latin

FIFY

I said are, not were, until 1/25/22

Cantians cuck at Cardinal's command

Quote
In accordance with the policy of His Eminence Cardinal Blase Cupich and the implementation of the motu proprio of His Holiness Pope Francis  Traditionis Custodes within the Archdiocese of Chicago, there will be changes to the schedule of Masses at St John Cantius Church.


Beginning on January 25, 2022, on the first Sunday of each month, the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass will be celebrated in the Ordinary Form of the Roman Missal, both in Latin and English.


The Archdiocese also prescribes for us liturgical unity of prayer for Holy Mother Church’s major feasts of Christmas, Pentecost and Easter, including the Triduum. 


The Canons Regular of St John Cantius are committed to serving the faithful within the Archdiocese of Chicago. We Canons will  live more fully our charism, “the core of our apostolate”—our very purpose— to restore the sacred.
Wie dein Sonntag, so dein Sterbetag.

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Jesus son of David, have mercy on me.
 
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Offline dueSicilie

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Re: St. John Cantius bites the dust
« Reply #42 on: January 15, 2022, 05:22:07 PM »
This whole situation is making me thank god for the SSPX.
 
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Offline Kaesekopf

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Re: St. John Cantius bites the dust
« Reply #43 on: January 15, 2022, 05:25:11 PM »
The Canons Regular are a perfect exemplar of the postConciliar Ratzingerian wing of the liturgical war - Focused wholly on the Novus Ordo, with it central to their identity, and relegating the TLM to a sideshow (really early or really late in the liturgical schedule), or used when needed for something fancy (like an orchestral Vespers). 
Wie dein Sonntag, so dein Sterbetag.

I am not altogether on anybody's side, because nobody is altogether on my side.  ~Treebeard, LOTR

Jesus son of David, have mercy on me.
 
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Offline james03

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Re: St. John Cantius bites the dust
« Reply #44 on: January 15, 2022, 07:03:42 PM »
Quote
on the first Sunday of each month, the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass will be celebrated in the Ordinary Form of the Roman Missal Vulgar Rite, both in Latin and English.

In Latin, if they use the Roman Canon, face the altar, and have have Communion on the tongue, it will be better.  I feel sorry for the laity who did a lot to build up SJC.

The Canons Regular were never the answer.  And it will only be a short time before Cupich orders altar girls to be used.

One question, in the Vulgar Rite, are you required to have a layperson do the readings?  Or is that optional?  I'm having flash backs of some woman up there doing the "psalm response", lifting up her hand during the response.  Luckily I have Copenhagen to fight off the depressive thoughts, but it's tough going with that memory.
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