Chinese dropping like flies

[Miriam_M]

Interesting background on Italy's crisis

https://uncoverdc.com/2020/03/20/why-italy/

Bullet-points from the article

• Italy has been ravaged by the Wuhan Coronavirus, but the reasons why are linked more closely to globalism than the age of the infected.
• Hundreds of thousands of Chinese immigrants now live both legally and illegally in Italy, with 300K legally registered and many more illegal.
• Italy recently entered into a new economic partnership with China called "One belt, One road"
• China has revitalized northern Italian ports in order to transport goods more efficiently to the rest of Europe
• The mayor of Florence initiated a social media campaign called "Hug a Chinese" using Chinese produced video as an engine to dispel the "racism" against the Chinese in Italy

Thank you, Lynne. This confirms a recent conversation I had with my often-traveling daughter, who has friends in many countries and has visited several countries in Europe, including Italy many times (but not recently, thankfully). 

Yes, I myself was surprised to learn from her how many Chinese reside in northern Italy.  It seemed counterintuitive at first.

But what of course enrages me is that these important contexts that you have posted here are being willfully ignored by Washington D.C., New York, and California.

China is becoming troublesome in many more ways than just economically, politically, and culturally.  By the latter I mean how much immigrant Chinese have "taken over" certain regions in this country with regard to educational and political policies, "enculturating" China as the dominant presence in particular areas.  (East, good; West, bad)

One can look up the stats on Chinese nationals in the States.  On the mainland, the areas of largest representation are NY and CA.  (Nah, must be just a coincidence, the Covid-19 rates.)

In some places in the hardest hit county in CA (Santa Clara), they are anywhere between one-fifth and one-third of the local population.  The student bodies of many public schools there are 100% Chinese.  I know this directly, not from reports.

[Prayerful]

China has acquired quite an extraordinary number of companies in Lombardy from motorcycle manufacturers to textile and leatherworking companies, and particularly with the latter, substantially staff them with Chinese workers. A genuinely Italian made handbag or coat is likelier to command a premium than something equally well made in China, and with Chinese workers, employee costs might be more contained.

A breakdown of ethnicity (if available) would be interesting. Older people in ill health and Chinese are substantially likely to figure in those stats, if they not kept secret.

It might have been posted but Chris Ferrarra of the Remnant has major doubts about the reaction to the Chinese virus. I did of a theory that some major drops in Chinese mobile phone subscriptions might be a result of death totals the Chinese Communist authorities are suppressing. They now seem to be engaged in an effort to force people back to work, to pretend it's gone. Given how Chairman Mao was unperturbed by the deaths of ten of millions of his slave subjects, a mortality of ten or twenty thousand extra would be nothing to the dictator Xi, except how it might harm the income stream of him and his comrades. 

[Vetus Ordo]

Italy just reported a record number of deaths today for a single day thus far: 793.

Things are still escalating.

[John Lamb]

It seems brazen that they would let their plans and blueprints be so open and public. The common understanding of this among conspiracy researchers is that they leave things in plain sight as a psychological ploy to get the implicit moral consent of the people for their plots and actions. I think the simpler explanation is that they put it out there to attract sympathisers and ambitious people who will contribute for the sake of worldly advancement.

The funny thing is that these people, these oligarchs, the masons, illuminati, NWO types, whatever you want to call them, are already basically obsolete. They are leftovers from the Age of Enlightenment, which basically ended after WW2. I say this because postmodern philosophy (relativism, deconstructionism, anti-humanism) has basically undermined and destroyed Enlightenment philosophy (naturalism, rationalism, humanism). In other words, they're old fashioned and out of date. Like the rulers of the late Roman empire who were out of touch with the developing conditions and whose old categories of thought were no longer relevant. The Enlightenment ambition is that a leviathan state girded with natural science can perfect humanity through state education and bring about world order and peace. The problem is that humanity is so radically disordered in its fundamental nature, its soul, that no amount of secular education can bring peace to humanity, but only the healing grace of the Holy Spirit in Christ. Nobody really "believes in humanity" anymore, everybody is disillusioned and cynical. That's how you know they've failed. The Elightenment picture of the rational man, the cosmopolitan republican, is dead. So instead of trying to bring it about through open persuasion they have to use surreptitious force and scheming. It's an obsolete cult. The good thing about postmodernism having torn down Enlightenment thought and epistemology is that it's left a theological and philosophical vacuum through which the Gospel can again enter into people's and the world's life, once the Church gets its house in order and starts preaching again.

Globalism is potentially a good thing because it can be a network for the propagation of the Gospel. No, this crisis is not the end of globalism. There has been a growth in human understanding now, and technologies like the Internet mean we should never have to regress to backwards ideologies like nationalism. And even if nationalism should have a brief period of resurgence in the coming decades, it will only be an example of what Marx meant by, "history repeats itself, first as tragedy then as farce." Everybody knows since the World Wars that nationalism is a stupid tribal ideology unfit for humanity, but the failures and excesses of secular globalism are giving nationalism a nostalgic appeal in the minds of many. But what we need is not a regression to romanticist nationalism, nor a capitulation to rationalist globalism, but a redeemed and Catholic Christian global community, which will come about (even if through many crises) because the prevailing secular humanist ideology is utterly empty of spiritual value and philosophically discredited.

[John Lamb]

Interesting background on Italy's crisis

https://uncoverdc.com/2020/03/20/why-italy/

Bullet-points from the article

• Italy has been ravaged by the Wuhan Coronavirus, but the reasons why are linked more closely to globalism than the age of the infected.
• Hundreds of thousands of Chinese immigrants now live both legally and illegally in Italy, with 300K legally registered and many more illegal.
• Italy recently entered into a new economic partnership with China called "One belt, One road"
• China has revitalized northern Italian ports in order to transport goods more efficiently to the rest of Europe
• The mayor of Florence initiated a social media campaign called "Hug a Chinese" using Chinese produced video as an engine to dispel the "racism" against the Chinese in Italy

Thank you, Lynne. This confirms a recent conversation I had with my often-traveling daughter, who has friends in many countries and has visited several countries in Europe, including Italy many times (but not recently, thankfully). 

Yes, I myself was surprised to learn from her how many Chinese reside in northern Italy.  It seemed counterintuitive at first.

But what of course enrages me is that these important contexts that you have posted here are being willfully ignored by Washington D.C., New York, and California.

China is becoming troublesome in many more ways than just economically, politically, and culturally.  By the latter I mean how much immigrant Chinese have "taken over" certain regions in this country with regard to educational and political policies, "enculturating" China as the dominant presence in particular areas.  (East, good; West, bad)

One can look up the stats on Chinese nationals in the States.  On the mainland, the areas of largest representation are NY and CA.  (Nah, must be just a coincidence, the Covid-19 rates.)

In some places in the hardest hit county in CA (Santa Clara), they are anywhere between one-fifth and one-third of the local population.  The student bodies of many public schools there are 100% Chinese.  I know this directly, not from reports.

It's good that the Chinese are spreading around the world because though they themselves have been raised under an essentially fascist state (China is something like Germany would have been if Hitler succeeded), their children won't be. And the children of Chinese immigrants will be able better to understand the subjugation of the homeland by this tyranny. The Chinese are like 50 years behind world history and are clinging to nationalism. My understanding of the Chinese is that they are very conformist and change rarely, but when they do change they change quickly and en masse. I imagine that God's purpose for the Chinese is that they, being a quite spiritual people historically, having experienced the effects of materialism in its most brutal form, will finally reject it with such vehemence and hopefully embracing the Gospel will become a strong arm of the Church.

[awkwardcustomer]

In any case, there's no need to fret. The wonderful thing is how God turns the plots of the wicked to good ......

...... the efforts of the masons (and the like) these past centuries to liberalise the nations and promote a global secular humanist NWO will backfire on them because it will turn into a platform for the gospel to truly spread to all peoples and for the Church to become truly universal.

But what if this particular plot of the wicked is their final one before Christ comes again? 

Given the speed with which the world is being put under martial law, the relentlessness of the media campaign to ensure this happens, the near absolute power of the banks and corporations, and the complete collusion in this project shown by all governments and international bodies, why do you think there can be any halt to the process of establishing the NWO.

Where do you get this hope from?  Why do you believe that God will turn this situation to good rather than let events take their course to what He has already stated is the conclusion of the Gospel narrative - a worldwide reign of terror by the Son of Perdition who can only be defeated by Christ when He comes again?

I share none of your, or martin88nyc's optimism. Every Sunday we recite the lines in the Creed which state that Christ will come again.  Why not now, or very soon, once the NWO is established, the Son of Perdition is on his throne and unimaginable horrors have been unleashed on the world for - how long is it - three and a half years?

How do you imagine the possibility of resisting this?

[Arvinger]

Note how this has been completely ignored by Xavier, Vetus, etc.

Xavier, Vetus, James - none of you can answer this question.

Did it possibly cross your mind that a good portion of people who post in this thread might simply find your posts without merit and not worth addressing, and thus choose to ignore them? Answering and addressing every conspiracy theorist out there (especially in Traditional Catholic circles, where conspiracy theories abound - while some are true, many are downright idiotic) is certainly not the most productive use of one's time.

[james03]

USA: 25,900, 316 deaths  I predicted 300 by Sunday, so still exponential

Italy: 53,600, 4,825 deaths.  Looks like a doubling rate of every 5 days, which is an improvement.

[Vetus Ordo]

After being exposed to the virus that causes COVID-19, it can take as few as two and as many as 14 days for symptoms to develop. Cases range from mild to critical. The average timeline from the first symptom to recovery is about 17 days, but some cases are fatal. Here's what it looks like to develop COVID-19, day by day.

[yt]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OOJqHPfG7pA[/yt]

[Miriam_M]

Awkward,
I share your incredulity in post 1085.  It's not that I doubt that others feel optimistic; it's that I merely am less confident about how I myself (and loved ones) will fare in the entire build up and reign of the Antichrist (yes 3.5 years, the latter). 

That is, while I believe that Christ eventually triumphs and that He is in fact in control right now, I do not necessarily see myself as benefiting spiritually from this phase.  I am not confident that this restricted way of life will be as temporary as publicized.  My sister's excellent physician, who has tested her twice now (sis is recovering from a sudden case of pneumonia), thinks that Covid will continue to show increases through Fall.  I do not see how the populace does not become restless before then, and begin to rebel, even riot, turn to crime, and endanger already fragile services and economies.

[Aeternitus]

Note how this has been completely ignored by Xavier, Vetus, etc.

Xavier, Vetus, James - none of you can answer this question.

Did it possibly cross your mind that a good portion of people who post in this thread might simply find your posts without merit and not worth addressing, and thus choose to ignore them? Answering and addressing every conspiracy theorist out there (especially in Traditional Catholic circles, where conspiracy theories abound - while some are true, many are downright idiotic) is certainly not the most productive use of one's time.

Kreuzritter has been banned for a week and perhaps he won't return at all, both of which will probably raise a cheer amongst many on this thread, but I, for one, will miss his input.  Granted, his delivery is not aimed at winning hearts as well as minds, but, in my view, that is not reason enough to dismiss what he says and the evidence he provides for it.  True, I am open to what he says and so have not suffered the lash of his tongue, but tongue-lashing goes both ways in some cases and it is ones' own choice to read and contribute to the thread.     

Pages ago, Kreuzritter posted the extract below, which is not a conspiracy theory, but an interesting example, which shows initial tests involved in closing down a medical centre, due to a purported whooping cough epidemic, were found to be false.   

...For months, nearly everyone involved thought the medical center had had a huge whooping cough outbreak, with extensive ramifications. Nearly 1,000 health care workers at the hospital in Lebanon, N.H., were given a preliminary test and furloughed from work until their results were in; 142 people, including Dr. Herndon, were told they appeared to have the disease; and thousands were given antibiotics and a vaccine for protection. Hospital beds were taken out of commission, including some in intensive care.

Then, about eight months later, health care workers were dumbfounded to receive an e-mail message from the hospital administration informing them that the whole thing was a false alarm.

Not a single case of whooping cough was confirmed with the definitive test, growing the bacterium, Bordetella pertussis, in the laboratory. Instead, it appears the health care workers probably were afflicted with ordinary respiratory diseases like the common cold.

Now, as they look back on the episode, epidemiologists and infectious disease specialists say the problem was that they placed too much faith in a quick and highly sensitive molecular test that led them astray.

Infectious disease experts say such tests are coming into increasing use and may be the only way to get a quick answer in diagnosing diseases like whooping cough, Legionnaire's, bird flu, tuberculosis and SARS, and deciding whether an epidemic is under way.

So the valid question is raised by KR: what tests are being used to determine one has been infected with Covid-19?  He maintains they are the same as the example above and therefore subject to error, as referenced by the epidemiologists and infectious disease experts.   

Xavier, Vetus Ordo and James (to a lesser extent) are the ones providing the regular statistics on how many people have now been confirmed with the virus, together with deaths, etc.   I think the source and accuracy of the tests involved are perfectly reasonable questions to ask of those promoting the statistics. It has nothing to do with conspiracy theories.

Now, I don't know the answer with regard to the tests, which is why I was looking forward to a response too.  I also hope KR does come back after his enforced hiatus.     

   

[james03]

I think the source and accuracy of the tests involved are perfectly reasonable

Is the body cold?
Is there a pulse?

"Number of confirmed cases" is not a great number.  Suppose you saturate the amount of tests you can run, then it looks like you are leveling off.  And then there are the untested infected.  That's why I switched over to modeling the death rate.  If you are stacking up bodies, you have a problem, whether it is a virus or the body's natural way to cleanse toxins, like small pox and chicken pox.

[Tales]

Yes, the test is very unreliable.  Yes, the tests are being done on a tiny fraction of the population and thus are missing many already sick people.  Yes, we have no good idea precisely how many are sick, how quickly it spreads, or how deadly it is.  Yes, precision and accuracy are both wildly off.

This is all fully irrelevant.

The question, as I've said many times and so has Graham, is whether or not the hospitals are swamped with critically ill dying patients.  Are the doctors saying they've never seen anything like this before.  Is the healthcare system collapsing.  Is this happening in many places across the planet.  If yes to all, then there is something majorly wrong.  I do not care if it is Covid19, the flu, demons, ill winds, bad humors, gremlins, or whatever.  Something we do not understand is presenting a major threat to the world.  Period.

When something is developing that is new and mysterious you cannot demand precise statistics.  Statistics are a bunch of crap anyways.  There are lies, damned lies, and then there are statistics.  What you want are widespread anecdotal stories from serious people with first hand experience.

What should be done about all of this is a completely different matter.

[Miriam_M]

Yes, the test is very unreliable.  Yes, the tests are being done on a tiny fraction of the population and thus are missing many already sick people.  Yes, we have no good idea precisely how many are sick, how quickly it spreads, or how deadly it is.  Yes, precision and accuracy are both wildly off.

This is all fully irrelevant.

The question, as I've said many times and so has Graham, is whether or not the hospitals are swamped with critically ill dying patients.  Are the doctors saying they've never seen anything like this before.  Is the healthcare system collapsing.  Is this happening in many places across the planet.  If yes to all, then there is something majorly wrong.  I do not care if it is Covid19, the flu, demons, ill winds, bad humors, gremlins, or whatever.  Something we do not understand is presenting a major threat to the world.  Period.

When something is developing that is new and mysterious you cannot demand precise statistics.  Statistics are a bunch of crap anyways.  There are lies, damned lies, and then there are statistics.  What you want are widespread anecdotal stories from serious people with first hand experience.

What should be done about all of this is a completely different matter.

So Davis, respectfully, I'm not sure if these are rhetorical "if" questions you asked above.  Of course, if people are critically ill or dying from a particularly aggressive virus -- tested or not -- then those patients may have Covid if the behavior of the virus is new/unique/unprecedented.

In my area, we are (public is) not certain that the patients presenting themselves at hospitals are in fact critically ill. Maybe they are just routinely ill because the government and the media continues to make alarming announcements almost non-stop.  (The only mercy we have been given is the slight decrease of media saturation due to the weekend.)  What appears to be happening is that every person who has (1) a cough of any kind (2) a fever of any origin (3) fatigue which could have a number of medical causes (standard cold, standard flu, "other") or (4) other respiratory symptoms is going to the hospital.  This is not helpful to the general public and could jeopardize treatment for those who have been or should be tested.

Like some others here, I have seen for myself (not my own person, but in my immediate family) that the tests are being questioned by doctors themselves.  Lots of false positives, lots of false negatives, lots of "undetermined," etc.  For example, when I read today about "60 nuns in Italy" it tends to strain belief.

[mikemac]

Leaked email reveals Ontario regional medical officer's criticism of provincial COVID-19 strategy as cracks emerge in front line
Fri., March 20, 2020
https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2020/03/20/leaked-email-reveals-ontario-regional-medical-officers-criticism-of-provincial-covid-19-strategy-as-cracks-emerge-in-front-line.html?fbclid=IwAR1n0NuIMW3AXLB5ScPlZkGIzt3xTflANyDk1N0YTza2fv10tY4mitk7K7Q

...
In an email obtained by the Star, Dr. Shanker Nesathurai wrote Thursday that Ontario's response has undermined the province's attempt to contain the outbreak, as businesses remain open and travellers ignore advice to self-isolate. He writes that "many" other medical officers of health, who are leading the regional response to the pandemic, believe Ontario needs to take a more assertive response.
...

Individuals, businesses that defy emergency orders could be fined, OPP says
Mar 20, 2020
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/opp-warns-businesses-social-distancing-1.5505439?fbclid=IwAR1b-aes4lW66wxB9PcwPp9ezSjUgDt1qGrSv4GLlXiRsRon_ArScwaePPc

...
People and businesses found breaking the new social distancing rules will be fined, Ontario Provincial Police said Friday.

Individuals could be fined up to $1,000 while corporations could face fines of up to $500,000, OPP said in a news release.
...

Quebec City police arrest COVID-19 patient for defying quarantine
Mar 20, 2020
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/quebec-city-police-arrest-covid-19-1.5505349?fbclid=IwAR2GRhw-1YZUpoFx-mD3Au1QOsU1jvU8MANxf1b-xZf44Gh_KuqRqb7Ifec

Quebec City police have arrested a woman, who has tested positive for the coronavirus, for being out in the city's Limoilou neighbourhood despite being under a quarantine order.

The woman, who is potentially contagious, was arrested at around 2 p.m. ET Friday while out for a stroll, by order of the regional public health authority.

"This is the first time that we have executed this type of warrant," said police spokesperson Sandra Dion.
...