Question re: Married to divorced Catholic

CinMed65 · August 10, 2023, 06:39:21 AM

Jane is married to David, a once-divorced and non-practicing cradle Catholic.

This is Jane's FIRST marriage and she wishes to convert to Catholicism.

Jane wants to know if David's being divorced (that marriage ended by the wife) will disallow her from receiving Holy Communion.

ElizabethH · August 10, 2023, 07:35:45 AM

Was David's first marriage a valid sacramental marriage in the Church? If so, David is still considered married to his first wife. This kind of complication would require guidance from a priest as there are more issues to resolve than just whether or not she can receive Holy Communion.

ChairmanJoeAintMyPrez · August 10, 2023, 07:45:21 AM

Quote from: CinMed65 on August 10, 2023, 06:39:21 AMJane is married to David, a once-divorced and non-practicing cradle Catholic.

This is Jane's FIRST marriage and she wishes to convert to Catholicism.

Jane wants to know if David's being divorced (that marriage ended by the wife) will disallow her from receiving Holy Communion.

If David's first marriage was a valid marriage, then he is still married to his first wife. "Civil divorce" doesn't affect the state of the marriage.

Because David is still married, he could not have validly contracted a marriage to Jane.

Jane and David, then, are not married, and they are living together adulterously.

This is much more complicated than just whether Jane can receive Holy Communion. She needs to get the advice of a holy priest, and there's a very good chance that she will need to end her relationship with David because there is simply no way it can be rectified.

All of this presupposes that David is still married to his first wife. If a marriage tribunal determines that his first marriage was null, however, then they would be able to seek convalidation.

CinMed65 · August 10, 2023, 07:56:10 AM

Thank you for both replies so far.

Quote from: ElizabethH on August 10, 2023, 07:35:45 AMWas David's first marriage a valid sacramental marriage in the Church?

Yes.

QuoteIf so, David is still considered married to his first wife. This kind of complication would require guidance from a priest as there are more issues to resolve than just whether or not she can receive Holy Communion.

QuoteIf a marriage tribunal determines that his first marriage was null, however, then they would be able to seek convalidation.

His first wife (supposedly) also obtained a termination of their marriage via Catholic authority roughly 18 years ago. David received notification in the mail. It's unknown if he kept it.

Their union also produced one child.

ChairmanJoeAintMyPrez · August 10, 2023, 08:03:42 AM

Quote from: CinMed65 on August 10, 2023, 07:56:10 AMHis first wife (supposedly) also obtained a termination of their marriage via Catholic authority roughly 18 years ago. David received notification in the mail. It's unknown if he kept it.

To help contextualize what's going on here, understand that there is no such thing as "terminating" a marriage. What a Catholic marriage tribunal may do is to determine that a marriage "never was". There are only two options -- either it "never was", or it "still is and always will be" (at least until one of the spouses passes.)

If the tribunal determines that a marriage "never was", they issue a declaration of nullity, more frequently known as an "annulment". They are not "annulling" the marriage in the active/transitive sense, because no human has that power. They are determining that a marriage never took place.

Quote from: CinMed65 on August 10, 2023, 07:56:10 AMTheir union also produced one child.

That is unfortunate for the child. Fortunately for Jane, however, this doesn't affect whether the original marriage could be determined to be null.

CinMed65 · August 10, 2023, 08:38:04 AM

Quote from: ChairmanJoeAintMyPrez on August 10, 2023, 08:03:42 AM
Quote from: CinMed65 on August 10, 2023, 07:56:10 AMHis first wife (supposedly) also obtained a termination of their marriage via Catholic authority roughly 18 years ago. David received notification in the mail. It's unknown if he kept it.

To help contextualize what's going on here, understand that there is no such thing as "terminating" a marriage. What a Catholic marriage tribunal may do is to determine that a marriage "never was". There are only two options -- either it "never was", or it "still is and always will be" (at least until one of the spouses passes.)

If the tribunal determines that a marriage "never was", they issue a declaration of nullity, more frequently known as an "annulment". They are not "annulling" the marriage in the active/transitive sense, because no human has that power. They are determining that a marriage never took place.

Quote from: CinMed65 on August 10, 2023, 07:56:10 AMTheir union also produced one child.

That is unfortunate for the child. Fortunately for Jane, however, this doesn't affect whether the original marriage could be determined to be null.

Okay. Thank you.

benedicite · August 10, 2023, 11:03:39 PM

Quote from: CinMed65 on August 10, 2023, 06:39:21 AMJane is married to David, a once-divorced and non-practicing cradle Catholic.

This is Jane's FIRST marriage and she wishes to convert to Catholicism.

Jane wants to know if David's being divorced (that marriage ended by the wife) will disallow her from receiving Holy Communion.

Jane cannot be received into the Catholic Church unless and until either she leaves David or David's first marriage is receives a declaration of nullity

Gullskjegg · August 11, 2023, 11:20:19 AM

I am civilly divorced and remarried, I am having to have that marriage annulled (if God wills it) before I or my wife can join the Catholic Church.

My wife left me 15 years ago, I have been civilly married to my "wife" for 12 years and we have two children together. My oldest daughter was confirmed this year.

Bonaventure · August 11, 2023, 11:28:51 AM

Best bet is for this woman to discuss the entire matter with a solid priest.

CinMed65 · August 11, 2023, 11:31:44 AM

Thanks everyone.

mmc1287 · August 16, 2023, 08:23:24 PM

Just an FYI on this topic as a whole. I have learned over the years that the annulment tribunals in the United States are considered "scandalous" to the rest of the world per a high ranking Vatican official from many years ago. Cardinal Burke, who was the head of the Apostolic Signatura (the Vatican's Supreme Court that dealt with contested annulments) confirmed this when he said that the US tribunals are basically approving annulments at an over 90% rate whereas if the annulments are sent to Rome the decisions are actually reversed i.e. 90% are rejected.

The Church has been infiltrated on every level including the annulment process. The ONLY person I would trust in this would be Cardinal Burke. If I were in the shoes of someone trying to figure out if my Catholic sacramental marriage was real or not, I could contact Cardinal Burke for his counsel and a referral. We are being mocked by Protestants with annulments being handed out like candy in this country. They call it "Catholic divorce" and it is a scandal. This of course only pertains to people who were actually married in the Church i.e. a sacramental marriage...those Catholics who went the civil route are of course not included b/c their unions were never valid to begin with.

A good apostolate for this is called "Mary's Advocates". I know people want to do the right thing and are also looking to stay with the person they are in an invalid relationship with...the answer might be a tough one...but if it is, we can always count on Our Lord to provide the grace of acceptance. No relationship is worth risking eternal life. God will help us all find the truth and abide to it:+) May Our Lord and His Perfect Mother help us all in this difficult area and lead us all home to heaven:+)

In Christ thru Mary~

MMC

Gullskjegg · August 21, 2023, 06:46:52 AM

Quote from: mmc1287 on August 16, 2023, 08:23:24 PMJust an FYI on this topic as a whole. I have learned over the years that the annulment tribunals in the United States are considered "scandalous" to the rest of the world per a high ranking Vatican official from many years ago. Cardinal Burke, who was the head of the Apostolic Signatura (the Vatican's Supreme Court that dealt with contested annulments) confirmed this when he said that the US tribunals are basically approving annulments at an over 90% rate whereas if the annulments are sent to Rome the decisions are actually reversed i.e. 90% are rejected.

The Church has been infiltrated on every level including the annulment process. The ONLY person I would trust in this would be Cardinal Burke. If I were in the shoes of someone trying to figure out if my Catholic sacramental marriage was real or not, I could contact Cardinal Burke for his counsel and a referral. We are being mocked by Protestants with annulments being handed out like candy in this country. They call it "Catholic divorce" and it is a scandal. This of course only pertains to people who were actually married in the Church i.e. a sacramental marriage...those Catholics who went the civil route are of course not included b/c their unions were never valid to begin with.

A good apostolate for this is called "Mary's Advocates". I know people want to do the right thing and are also looking to stay with the person they are in an invalid relationship with...the answer might be a tough one...but if it is, we can always count on Our Lord to provide the grace of acceptance. No relationship is worth risking eternal life. God will help us all find the truth and abide to it:+) May Our Lord and His Perfect Mother help us all in this difficult area and lead us all home to heaven:+)

In Christ thru Mary~

MMC

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