After some prayer and reflection I've decided that I cannot in good conscience continue to post here. This thread (https://www.suscipedomine.com/forum/index.php?topic=29664.0) was the final straw. Give not that which is holy to dogs; neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest perhaps they trample them under their feet, and turning upon you, they tear you.
Over the past year I've come to think of many of you as friends. I will miss you.
Goodbye and God bless.
Hm.
One person (quite typical on forums, really) calls into question an apparition and that turns the rest into swine, eh?
Quaint.
Well I appreciated your posts about liturgical feasts and customs. God bless
:pray1:
I think you should continue; just put that poster on "ignore"; the rest of us disagree with his opinion on Our Lady of Guadalupe. I am also very edified by your postings on the different feastdays of the saints.
I'll miss your posts Vox, I hope you reconsider.
Quote from: Michael Wilson on December 15, 2022, 12:52:20 PM
I think you should continue; just put that poster on "ignore"; the rest of us disagree with his opinion on Our Lady of Guadalupe. I am also very edified by your postings on the different feastdays of the saints.
I echo this. Seeking for your change of heart. Whatever shall be your final decision, God bless.
I'm sad to see you go. I wouldn't let these things get to you. Once, an outspoken "feminist" (married with children) told me that perhaps it was a good thing that my wife miscarried. On this very forum.
We cannot let these types of things get to us.
I didn't really understand the back-and-forth on the thread that was linked by the OP, so I'm not in a position to argue particular points. I will just say that even private revelation that enjoys a level of approval by the Church is nevertheless personal and individualistic. There have been a couple of members who have objected to even the rosary, although the Church uses it as public prayer, Herself.
Sometimes it's merely how someone reacts to what for them is associated with a devotion, rather than the devotion itself. IOW, there are indeed Catholics who seem to get carried away with one or all devotions and begin to substitute private devotions for general feast days and more universally celebrated events.
An example from my own recent past was a routine Fatima celebration with procession that was celebrated on the 13th of every month. I love Fatima and certainly the rosary and Marian feasts in general. However, there was a woman in the procession with an absolute fetish about devotions, if I'm allowed to put it that way. People who treat feast days superstitiously really turn me off; they have missed the whole point of why the CHURCH recommends these devotions. Had I not already a love for Fatima and Marian feasts, I'm pretty sure that someone who treated the devotion like some magic charm would have ensured that I lose interest entirely.
The bottom line is that negative reactions are not really reflective of the value of a feast or devotion. It's really our job as individual Catholics to carve out a spirituality that works for us -- sometimes with the help of a director -- and to have the integrity to respond to the urgings of the Holy Spirit, regardless of how many or how few people share those same urgings, or whether some people seem unable to distinguish a devotion from a cult.
The poster denied that the apparition of Our Lady and the Picture where legitimate.
Oh, I see.
Well, many Catholics deny Faustina and Divine Mercy, even though I believe the Church is okay with it. I'm also okay with it, even though I would never choose to substitute it for the rosary, and certainly not regularly. I was once given the Chaplet as a penance after Confession. I had to look up how to say it since it's not my go-to devotion.
The point is, it's not worth getting exercised about when another Catholic doesn't share our devotional preferences. Even when approved, they're preferences and opinions, not mandates either positive or negative on the Church's part. When it comes to devotions, we should just go where the Third Person leads us and be at peace with our convictions.
Given some of the recent threads I've seen, I'm near there myself. If I wanted to deal with liberal trolls, I'd be in a mainstream "Catholic" group.
I hope you don't leave Poly, you're one of the few new accounts that doesn't seem to want to cause trouble.
Quote from: diaduit on December 18, 2022, 11:09:43 AM
I hope you don't leave Poly, you're one of the few new accounts that doesn't seem to want to cause trouble.
Thanks. Sometimes I just get a bit frustrated with those who do want to cause trouble...
Quote from: The Curt Jester on December 15, 2022, 11:22:43 AMOne person (quite typical on forums, really) calls into question an apparition and that turns the rest into swine, eh?
That is a complete misreading of my wife's point. She's concerned and upset about the treatment of
holy things on the forum. It has become a banality to see them questioned and trampled underfoot by trolls or confused converts who quickly burn out. They keep popping up left and right around here, often unchallenged. We've had many attacks over the past months, including a vile attack on the holy rosary that lasted for three full days (https://www.suscipedomine.com/forum/index.php?topic=29107.0) until the scandal was so overwhelming that something was finally done about it. I second Polymath's feelings. If we wanted to deal with liberal trolls, we'd be on a mainstream Novus Ordo forum where everything that is sacred in our faith, from dogmas to simple devotions, is questioned under the pretense of intellectual inquiry. Faith is not a mere intellectual exercise, it's a living experience that forms our character, our sensibilities and our attitudes. Our Catholic ethos is in danger when we tolerate and grow accustomed to an attitude of irreverence towards holy things, no matter how small they might be.
Quote from: Miriam_M on December 16, 2022, 09:36:12 AMThe point is, it's not worth getting exercised about when another Catholic doesn't share our devotional preferences. Even when approved, they're preferences and opinions, not mandates either positive or negative on the Church's part. When it comes to devotions, we should just go where the Third Person leads us and be at peace with our convictions.
Walking Wounded stated that the Guadalupian devotion, that stretches back 500 years and has had the full approval of the Church, has brought forth sour, heretical fruit (https://www.suscipedomine.com/forum/index.php?topic=29664.msg602840#msg602840). This is not someone who might have genuine doubts over some aspect of a devotion, or someone who is simply not attached to it. No, it's a Satanic attack against the Church and Catholic piety. Walking Wounded felt so emboldened as to state that Catholic Hispanic culture is altogether pagan (https://www.suscipedomine.com/forum/index.php?topic=29664.msg603052#msg603052). Eventually, when this sort of thing becomes so widespread and common as it has here, it will drive people away. We are already swimming against the tide in the real world, and some of us in our own parishes, we don't need that garbage here.
Whenever I read people like Walking Wounded pridefully boast that
"some of us know the difference between the levels of the hierarchy of Truth," I already know what's coming. And so did Vox Clara. It's not pretty, it's dark and troublesome. But while Walking Wounded might not last long here (or in the Church for that matter), there are still good Catholics at SD who are passively witnessing the hijacking of this space, which should be a safe haven for traditional piety, devotion and faith, by enemies of Our Lord. It's sad.
Those are good points, Vetus. Deception has insinuated itself here, too. Same people, different names, recreating personalities. Gets old.
Quote from: Goldfinch on December 18, 2022, 06:16:19 PM
Quote from: The Curt Jester on December 15, 2022, 11:22:43 AMOne person (quite typical on forums, really) calls into question an apparition and that turns the rest into swine, eh?
That is a complete misreading of my wife's point. She's concerned and upset about the treatment of holy things on the forum. It has become a banality to see them questioned and trampled underfoot by trolls or confused converts who quickly burn out. They keep popping up left and right around here, often unchallenged. We've had many attacks over the past months, including a vile attack on the holy rosary that lasted for three full days (https://www.suscipedomine.com/forum/index.php?topic=29107.0) until the scandal was so overwhelming that something was finally done about it. I second Polymath's feelings. If we wanted to deal with liberal trolls, we'd be on a mainstream Novus Ordo forum where everything that is sacred in our faith, from dogmas to simple devotions, is questioned under the pretense of intellectual inquiry. Faith is not a mere intellectual exercise, it's a living experience that forms our character, our sensibilities and our attitudes. Our Catholic ethos is in danger when we tolerate and grow accustomed to an attitude of irreverence towards holy things, no matter how small they might be.
Context helps, so thanks for clarification.
Please note that over the years, "Goodbye" threads have been laced with insults, blanket-statements, and everything in between. For instance, in the past couple years we have had (in so many words):
1. I hope many of you get sick and die.
2. You people aren't real Catholics.
3. Protestants are more Catholic than most people here
4. You are a bunch of weakling idiots.
5. None of you spend enough time defending me from other posters
One gets rather jaded of Goodbye posts that make statements which can be construed to mean a chunk of the forum population. Your wife's post indicated one thread in which one person was against O.L. of Guadalupe (which is highly offensive to a Taco-bender like myself) and a good number of people opposing that person. There was no mention of other people or instances. So did that mean that many of us got lumped in via association (or because we didn't jump in that particular thread to take sides?). Given the past, it's really hard to tell and not a far stretch of the imagination that the latter could have happened.
Quote from: The Curt Jester on December 15, 2022, 11:22:43 AMHm.
One person (quite typical on forums, really) calls into question an apparition and that turns the rest into swine, eh?
Quaint.
Quaint, and also:
Phony
Duplicitous
Reeking of false sanctimony.
We have proof that the
Vetus Ordo,
Goldfinch,
Vox Clara, and
Fleur-de-Lys accounts all share the same meta data.
Yet, the individuals behind the aforementioned accounts have:
1. Created drama on this forum, accusing those who have pointed out their irregular situation, that they willingly and publicly revealed, as slanderers, busybodies, nosy, uncharitable, etc.
2. Violated forum rules to create 2 new accounts to openly discuss their "married" life.
If y'all want to star in your own episode of the Maury show, be my guest. But, don't be sanctimonious about it.
Quote from: Goldfinch on December 18, 2022, 06:16:19 PMOur Catholic ethos is in danger when we tolerate and grow accustomed to an attitude of irreverence towards holy things, no matter how small they might be.
What about an irreverence towards marriage and the family? Publicly posting that one has a spouse and children, and then publicly posting that one is now "married" to another individual?
Deception?
Does that put Catholic ethos in danger?
Quote from: Heinrich on December 18, 2022, 07:10:00 PMThose are good points, Vetus. Deception has insinuated itself here, too. Same people, different names, recreating personalities. Gets old.
Brother I'm amazed at your ability to sniff out BS. I salute you!!!
This is all so sad and pathetic at the same time. I know I will vet out people before I start PMig them though.
In all fairness, most of us here knew these were the same people and as for them being married, it was a bit of a fun mystery, are they aren't they!!!
Vox Clara was posting daily with Saints and Feast days which were an excellent start to the day, I would love to see her back.
I've seen way more sanctimonious finger wagging from other quarters who didn't get any sort of a ban or short term ban...calling us effing killers and doesn't get so much as rap on the knuckles.
Granted double accounts is a rule breaker so do as you wish.
Quote from: The Curt Jester on December 18, 2022, 07:10:53 PMPlease note that over the years, "Goodbye" threads have been laced with insults, blanket-statements, and everything in between. For instance, in the past couple years we have had (in so many words):
1. I hope many of you get sick and die.
2. You people aren't real Catholics.
3. Protestants are more Catholic than most people here
4. You are a bunch of weakling idiots.
5. None of you spend enough time defending me from other posters
Pretty sure I'm guilty of #2-#4, especially #4, but to be fair here, I think that about most people.
Quote from: diaduit on August 30, 2023, 03:10:41 PMas for them being married, it was a bit of a fun mystery, are they aren't they!!!
If you consider someone publicly posting that she is married, with children, then suddenly giving the appearance of being with/married to another man as a "bit of a fun mystery," I don't know what to tell you.
QuoteI've seen way more sanctimonious finger wagging from other quarters who didn't get any sort of a ban or short term ban...calling us effing killers and doesn't get so much as rap on the knuckles.
You don't know all that goes on.
Well sure I'll leave it a that so.
Quote from: diaduit on August 30, 2023, 04:03:43 PMWell sure I'll leave it a that so.
I respect you a lot as a poster.
It disheartened me to see you equate an instance of lack of charity with, at the very least, the perception of cohabitation/remarriage, with
kids being involved. Over the course of two years. At worst, actual adultery. Combined with phony sanctimony and name calling when anyone pointed this out.
Why oppose Bergoglio at all then?
Trust me, I know about lack of charity and this forum. Days after my wife suffered a miscarriage, a user perhaps it was a good thing, simply because I opposed Hillary Clinton in 2016.
As I told
@Kaesekopf earlier today, I am personally angered that Vetus Ordo used the what if someone said that about your wife line. I
know the owner's wife, and attended the nuptial Mass...
You don't see that as your bias/dislike affecting your judgment?
Well as you say, I don't know all that goes on so that is why I said 'sure we will leave it at that'(which means I accept I don't know everything so I will step back from this).
As I told
@Kaesekopf earlier today, I am personally angered that Vetus Ordo used the what if someone said that about your wife line. I know the owner's wife,-
I have no clue what this is in relation to so again, I would say I will leave it at that.I was angered at the comments that were stated by one poster here in relation to the sudden death of my father who thankfully got the Last rites but I wasn't allowed to be there to say goodbye to him and suffered a crushing loneliness for weeks up to and after Christmas because of stupid covid scam that kept people from calling , the comments were to the tune of 'your fault you didn't get him vaccinated' and again nothing done or even a rap on the knuckles.
I just don't know if its a good idea to re hashing these old threads and sore points, for me I thought it was Fleur and Vito didn't admit to being married and then did a little flirting on this forum so left us wondering about whether they were married or not, I don't think they intended give the impression of adultery, more game of are they aren't they but I am happy to defer to the mods, really thats all.
Edit to add, of course I can suffer with bad judgement when done through a bias. Mea Culpa .
Quote from: diaduit on August 30, 2023, 04:42:19 PMI was angered at the comments that were stated by one poster here in relation to the sudden death of my father who thankfully got the Last rites but I wasn't allowed to be there to say goodbye to him and suffered a crushing loneliness for weeks up to and after Christmas because of stupid covid scam that kept people from calling , the comments were to the tune of 'your fault you didn't get him vaccinated' and again nothing done or even a rap on the knuckles.
I am truly sorry this happened to you.
Sorry for your loss.
Quote from: awkward customer on August 30, 2023, 05:14:09 PMQuote from: diaduit on August 30, 2023, 04:42:19 PMI was angered at the comments that were stated by one poster here in relation to the sudden death of my father who thankfully got the Last rites but I wasn't allowed to be there to say goodbye to him and suffered a crushing loneliness for weeks up to and after Christmas because of stupid covid scam that kept people from calling , the comments were to the tune of 'your fault you didn't get him vaccinated' and again nothing done or even a rap on the knuckles.
I am truly sorry this happened to you.
Sorry for your loss.
I am sorry that that happened.
I will remember his soul in my intentions.
If I were actively moderating at that time there would've been a ban, I can promise you.
Quote from: Bonaventure on August 30, 2023, 06:23:11 PMQuote from: awkward customer on August 30, 2023, 05:14:09 PMQuote from: diaduit on August 30, 2023, 04:42:19 PMI was angered at the comments that were stated by one poster here in relation to the sudden death of my father who thankfully got the Last rites but I wasn't allowed to be there to say goodbye to him and suffered a crushing loneliness for weeks up to and after Christmas because of stupid covid scam that kept people from calling , the comments were to the tune of 'your fault you didn't get him vaccinated' and again nothing done or even a rap on the knuckles.
I am truly sorry this happened to you.
Sorry for your loss.
I am sorry that that happened.
I will remember his soul in my intentions.
If I were actively moderating at that time there would've been a ban, I can promise you.
What about the poster who said the following to you, Bonaventure? I've just noticed it.
QuoteDays after my wife suffered a miscarriage, a user perhaps it was a good thing, simply because I opposed Hillary Clinton in 2016
That's awful.
As before, I'm truly sorry this was said to you.
Maybe SD should have a 'rogue's gallery' of awful comments like these. Although it could get vindictive, so maybe not.
Thank you for the condolences.
Quote from: diaduit on August 30, 2023, 06:48:39 PMThank you for the condolences.
If you have the link to the thread or post where those remarks were made, could you kindly forward to me?
Thank you.
I'm not great at searches but I will try to find it over next couple of days.