Humility: Good or Bad?

[voxxpopulisuxx]

Sorry for the poor spellung ...quick post with phone

[rbjmartin]

There exists things which are beyond our unaided senses.  I cannot directly perceive galaxies which are very far away, yet I can with a big enough telescope.  I cannot directly perceive very small things, yet I can with a microscope.

So, you didn't answer my question. I asked: "Do you believe there exist things beyond the grasp of your senses (assisted or not)?"

Notice the parentheses at the end. I will phrase it another way. Do you believe in the existence of things that cannot be grasped by the senses, regardless of whether your sense are aided? Are there things that exist that could never be physically perceived by man?

No, I do not.  Everything which exists either can be detected through use of instruments or will be detected through the use of instruments eventually.  Nothing is beyond the grasp of man.

Then what makes you NOT a materialist?

[Probius]

Your the guest here brother...this is a forum for the propogation of the catholic faith. Not the propogation of humanism whixh is satanic wether you acknowledge it or not. And to say the bwautifull personality of you grandmother only exists in YOUR mind and memory is an unsult to her and an affrint to the truth. Whether or not you evee met your grandmothee her personality would still be a unique creation worthy of eternal memoey. You disgrace her name by promoting such codswallop as she and everything she was is no more. She has an eternal soul...as you do.

Yes, I am a guest, and I appreciate the kindness of the moderators.  No one loved my grandmother more than me, though some did as much.  I believe she now only exists in the memories of those who loved her, which includes her children and other grandchildren, not just me.  I had many intimate and personal conversations with her before she went, and those conversations made a lasting impact on me.  She had been a Baptist earlier in life, but she lost the faith many years before she died.  She told me that she had lost the faith around the early 1970's.  She no longer believed in God at the time of her passing.  At that time I was still Catholic, and I wanted a priest to give her last rites.  She did not want them, and we respected her wishes.  I knew her better than most, and I will pass her memory on as long as I live.  I certainly do not wish to mistreat her memory, and she wouldn't have wanted people thinking she was something she wasn't.

[Probius]

There exists things which are beyond our unaided senses.  I cannot directly perceive galaxies which are very far away, yet I can with a big enough telescope.  I cannot directly perceive very small things, yet I can with a microscope.

So, you didn't answer my question. I asked: "Do you believe there exist things beyond the grasp of your senses (assisted or not)?"

Notice the parentheses at the end. I will phrase it another way. Do you believe in the existence of things that cannot be grasped by the senses, regardless of whether your sense are aided? Are there things that exist that could never be physically perceived by man?

No, I do not.  Everything which exists either can be detected through use of instruments or will be detected through the use of instruments eventually.  Nothing is beyond the grasp of man.

Then what makes you NOT a materialist?

A materialist says that only matter exists.  I say that I don't know what makes up the Universe.  Materialism may turn out to be right, I doubt it.  There may be some substance other than matter which exists, and if it does we will be able to detect it.  I just don't know.  I find the entire question perplexing and I haven't the slightest idea what the right answer is.

[rbjmartin]

There exists things which are beyond our unaided senses.  I cannot directly perceive galaxies which are very far away, yet I can with a big enough telescope.  I cannot directly perceive very small things, yet I can with a microscope.

So, you didn't answer my question. I asked: "Do you believe there exist things beyond the grasp of your senses (assisted or not)?"

Notice the parentheses at the end. I will phrase it another way. Do you believe in the existence of things that cannot be grasped by the senses, regardless of whether your sense are aided? Are there things that exist that could never be physically perceived by man?

No, I do not.  Everything which exists either can be detected through use of instruments or will be detected through the use of instruments eventually.  Nothing is beyond the grasp of man.

Then what makes you NOT a materialist?

A materialist says that only matter exists.  I say that I don't know what makes up the Universe.  Materialism may turn out to be right, I doubt it.  There may be some substance other than matter which exists, and if it does we will be able to detect it.  I just don't know.  I find the entire question perplexing and I haven't the slightest idea what the right answer is.

But you just said that everything that exists is observable.  Only material things are observable, correct?

[ResRev]

Your the guest here brother...this is a forum for the propogation of the catholic faith. Not the propogation of humanism whixh is satanic wether you acknowledge it or not. And to say the bwautifull personality of you grandmother only exists in YOUR mind and memory is an unsult to her and an affrint to the truth. Whether or not you evee met your grandmothee her personality would still be a unique creation worthy of eternal memoey. You disgrace her name by promoting such codswallop as she and everything she was is no more. She has an eternal soul...as you do.

Yes, I am a guest, and I appreciate the kindness of the moderators.  No one loved my grandmother more than me, though some did as much.  I believe she now only exists in the memories of those who loved her, which includes her children and other grandchildren, not just me.  I had many intimate and personal conversations with her before she went, and those conversations made a lasting impact on me.  She had been a Baptist earlier in life, but she lost the faith many years before she died.  She told me that she had lost the faith around the early 1970's.  She no longer believed in God at the time of her passing.  At that time I was still Catholic, and I wanted a priest to give her last rites.  She did not want them, and we respected her wishes.  I knew her better than most, and I will pass her memory on as long as I live.  I certainly do not wish to mistreat her memory, and she wouldn't have wanted people thinking she was something she wasn't.

I'm sorry for your loss. I never knew my grandparents so I can't really relate, though I did lose my father when I was 16. He was an atheist. That was a hard thing for me to accept, that it appeared that he would be condemned, if what I believed were true. But it doesn't weigh on me like before, I really can't presume to "know" the disposition of anyone's soul short of canonizations. now I just pray for him every day and leave all that to God, who is obviously more just and merciful than I am, perfectly so.

[james03]

No, I do not.  Everything which exists either can be detected through use of instruments or will be detected through the use of instruments eventually.  Nothing is beyond the grasp of man.

Please show me "3".  And why not "8" while you are at it.  I want to detect and/or measure it with an instrument.

You are slipping back into materialism.  Stick with realism, it is much better because it is true.

Speaking of which, show me where "true" is located so I can measure it with an instrument.

[JuniorCouncilor]

Nothing is beyond the grasp of man.

Where does one get such faith in man?

Or perhaps I should say such ?????.

[Probius]

No, I do not.  Everything which exists either can be detected through use of instruments or will be detected through the use of instruments eventually.  Nothing is beyond the grasp of man.

Please show me "3".  And why not "8" while you are at it.  I want to detect and/or measure it with an instrument.

You are slipping back into materialism.  Stick with realism, it is much better because it is true.

Speaking of which, show me where "true" is located so I can measure it with an instrument.

Numbers are ideas, they are not actual things.  How can you know that something exists if there is no way to detect it?  I like to see philosophy begin with what one perceives from the world around us.  I like philosophers who keep there feet firmly planted on the ground.  'Truth' is an idea, an idea is true when it corresponds to reality.  I don't know what makes up the mind, I do know it involves matter in some way, but whatever it is must be something people can figure out.  Given enough time, scientists will figure it out.

[Probius]

Nothing is beyond the grasp of man.

Where does one get such faith in man?

Or perhaps I should say such ?????.

The Universe is rational and orderly, it follows laws of nature.  This makes it predictable and solvable.

[JuniorCouncilor]

The Universe is rational and orderly, it follows laws of nature.  This makes it predictable and solvable.

Exactly like women.

[Non Nobis]

The Universe is rational and orderly, it follows laws of nature.  This makes it predictable and solvable.

Exactly like women.

Women are rational and sometimes orderly, but still a mystery - another proof of God's existence.

[Probius]

I have some good news, I have been asked to give a speech to a group about religious liberty.  The group is called the Freedom from Religion Foundation.  I don't know much about them, but it feels good to have someone want me.


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[Lydia Purpuraria]

Crimson,  have you already posted somewhere on here how you lost your Catholic Faith?  Could you point me to it? 

btw, I think you were saying it tongue in cheek -- but God wants you ... back in His Church, promoting vespers , using your God-given intellect for His Glory.  You are so bright, if you could use your intelligence in union with Christ instead of separate from Him -- I can't even imagine the impact for good you could have.  He is the Good Shepherd, He won't abandon you, but Lord how I pray you don't reject Him unto death.

Anyway, I would be interested in your take on religious liberty in light of what trads think about it.

[Probius]

Thank you for the compliment. 

Trads think of religious liberty differently than secularists.  Trads are concerned that religious liberty will lead to indifferentism, this is because Trads think religious liberty means treating all religions the same because they are all equal.  This would mean there would be a carelessness about the truth.  I can understand that concern, as I love truth and would hate to see it tossed away like garbage.  However, I see religious liberty as merely eliminating force and violence from the search for truth.  No one is born knowing truth, and must discover it for himself.  That search must be done voluntarily and without coercion.


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