Author Topic: A strange psychological relationship with money and value.  (Read 415 times)

Offline Gardener

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Re: A strange psychological relationship with money and value.
« Reply #15 on: November 21, 2017, 01:09:14 AM »
I don't think that's fair to Greg. He's a businessman. His focus is business. One should not expect anything less.
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Offline Greg

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Re: A strange psychological relationship with money and value.
« Reply #16 on: November 21, 2017, 02:39:31 AM »
I could always take my focus off business, be poor, go on welfare and be unable to help people with money or get them jobs.  Then there would also be the great benefit that the firms I used to help to sell more software would sell less, lay off their employees as they shrunk in size and those poorer employees would then, like me, turn to God and increase their faith because they were poor.

We could go to mass each day, suck off the government teat and complain that the world was evil and we were glad to be out of it.

And to take a young man of 18 and discourage him from going to university and put him in a job where he is earning 100,000 dollars at 22 years old!  What was I thinking?  That's far too much money and very likely to corrupt him and lead to his damnation.

A liberal arts degree, majoring in Latin and minoring in Falconry would serve him so much better.  He would never need to pay back the $50,000 of student debt, which is userous and evil anyway, because he would never earn above the threshold.  At 44 he could marry a third worlder and live in his dead mother's house.

That is the way to holiness for sure.
« Last Edit: November 21, 2017, 02:41:59 AM by Greg »
 
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Offline John Lamb

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Re: A strange psychological relationship with money and value.
« Reply #17 on: November 21, 2017, 05:54:47 AM »
I could always take my focus off business, be poor, go on welfare and be unable to help people with money or get them jobs.  Then there would also be the great benefit that the firms I used to help to sell more software would sell less, lay off their employees as they shrunk in size and those poorer employees would then, like me, turn to God and increase their faith because they were poor.

We could go to mass each day, suck off the government teat and complain that the world was evil and we were glad to be out of it.

And to take a young man of 18 and discourage him from going to university and put him in a job where he is earning 100,000 dollars at 22 years old!  What was I thinking?  That's far too much money and very likely to corrupt him and lead to his damnation.

A liberal arts degree, majoring in Latin and minoring in Falconry would serve him so much better.  He would never need to pay back the $50,000 of student debt, which is userous and evil anyway, because he would never earn above the threshold.  At 44 he could marry a third worlder and live in his dead mother's house.

That is the way to holiness for sure.

It's certainly not impossible to be a holy businessman. If I'm not mistaken, St. Louis Martin, the father of St. Thérèse (and several more holy nuns), was one. But it's ironic that even in this post you are thinking in financial terms, demonstrating exactly what the video was talking about as the "merchant mindset".
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Offline Jayne

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Re: A strange psychological relationship with money and value.
« Reply #18 on: November 21, 2017, 06:30:04 AM »
I don't think that's fair to Greg. He's a businessman. His focus is business. One should not expect anything less.

It is true that different states in life require different responses.  This was a major theme in Introduction to the Devout Life.
Greg, however, seems to expect everyone to to have the same values and focus that he does.  He regularly shows contempt for those who are idealistic and focus on spiritual matters. 
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Offline Gardener

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Re: A strange psychological relationship with money and value.
« Reply #19 on: November 21, 2017, 07:59:49 AM »
I don't think that's fair to Greg. He's a businessman. His focus is business. One should not expect anything less.

It is true that different states in life require different responses.  This was a major theme in Introduction to the Devout Life.
Greg, however, seems to expect everyone to to have the same values and focus that he does.  He regularly shows contempt for those who are idealistic and focus on spiritual matters.

I think Greg views it as duty vs desire. He can correct that if I'm wrong. But, he has seen, as has James03, as have I, the fallout of "holy" pursuits that are really not holy at all in context... just like for the Benedictines: it's very holy to be praying, but not if the horarium says to be working. For a husband and father to pursue that which is not financially remunerative simply because it strokes the ego on an idea of what holiness is, is ruinous to many families, creates unnecessary stress, and is antithetical to the duty of that man.

One doesn't need to make 100k a year (well, unless they live in the Shangri La of San Fran, LA, or NYC) to survive, but when they pursue massive debt in order to simply engage in the Liberal Arts, it's not only imprudent for a husband/father, but downright criminal to a degree. There's nothing virtuous about being on the doll when one has the ability to not be in that position.
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Offline Jayne

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Re: A strange psychological relationship with money and value.
« Reply #20 on: November 21, 2017, 08:06:28 AM »
One doesn't need to make 100k a year (well, unless they live in the Shangri La of San Fran, LA, or NYC) to survive, but when they pursue massive debt in order to simply engage in the Liberal Arts, it's not only imprudent for a husband/father, but downright criminal to a degree. There's nothing virtuous about being on the doll when one has the ability to not be in that position.

Doing the duties of one's state of life is something that all Catholics should aspire to.  It is not the same as wallowing in worldliness.
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Offline Gardener

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Re: A strange psychological relationship with money and value.
« Reply #21 on: November 21, 2017, 11:00:52 AM »
One doesn't need to make 100k a year (well, unless they live in the Shangri La of San Fran, LA, or NYC) to survive, but when they pursue massive debt in order to simply engage in the Liberal Arts, it's not only imprudent for a husband/father, but downright criminal to a degree. There's nothing virtuous about being on the doll when one has the ability to not be in that position.

Doing the duties of one's state of life is something that all Catholics should aspire to.  It is not the same as wallowing in worldliness.

Seems to me like Greg is just into the idea of not being an idiot and grabbing opportunity when it comes along, rather than hand wringing about whether or not a job is "Catholic enough", or whatever drivel the Distributist Fantasyville Citizens come up with.

He tends to speak in rather hyperbolic terms, but at the end of the day I interpret him as simply saying that people needs to stop being idiots and provide for their family as able. There's plenty of holiness to be had in jobs which don't require undue hardship.
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Offline Jayne

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Re: A strange psychological relationship with money and value.
« Reply #22 on: November 21, 2017, 12:46:18 PM »
Considering that someone introduced his new forum with a post in which he mentioned that one of the main problems with SD is that Greg and Jayne fight too much, I should probably just drop this line of discussion.

But if anyone else wants to criticize Greg , it does not seem like he would care. :P
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Offline Heinrich

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Re: A strange psychological relationship with money and value.
« Reply #23 on: November 21, 2017, 12:55:06 PM »

One doesn't need to make 100k a year (well, unless they live in the Shangri La of San Fran, LA, or NYC)

Or Colorado Springs. Serious.

« Last Edit: November 21, 2017, 12:57:55 PM by Heinrich »
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Re: A strange psychological relationship with money and value.
« Reply #24 on: November 21, 2017, 01:14:52 PM »

One doesn't need to make 100k a year (well, unless they live in the Shangri La of San Fran, LA, or NYC)

Or Colorado Springs. Serious.

I don't make 100k and we have an excess each month.

I mean, I guess if one has a 6k sq ft house in Briargate, that'd be one thing. Where in COS are you thinking people need 100k to live?
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Offline Heinrich

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Re: A strange psychological relationship with money and value.
« Reply #25 on: November 21, 2017, 01:29:01 PM »

One doesn't need to make 100k a year (well, unless they live in the Shangri La of San Fran, LA, or NYC)

Or Colorado Springs. Serious.

I don't make 100k and we have an excess each month.

I mean, I guess if one has a 6k sq ft house in Briargate, that'd be one thing. Where in COS are you thinking people need 100k to live?

To be fair, you technically don't  live in CS. I would say anything SE of I 25 and South of the airport is the least expensive area, but, overall, the avg. home price north of downtown is what, 300k? Less than Denver, sure. The Mrs. and I are in a peculiar bind: we can't afford to downsize unless we move to Pueblo or Fremont Cty. And Pueblo ain't happening.
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Offline Gardener

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Re: A strange psychological relationship with money and value.
« Reply #26 on: November 21, 2017, 01:30:48 PM »
True... we are in unincorporated El Paso County. Glad too. Don't like paying yet another tax.
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