What will judgment be like?

[Chestertonian]

I keep wondering what criteria God will use to jjudge us

When i think about the impending particular judgment, I immediately think about the syncopated drumbeats of giusseppe verdi's dies irae and the on-stage trumpets and the offstage trumpets calling to one another. 



It really is a thrill when you are on stage in the chorus, surrounded by sound, shouting "Tuba, mirum spargens sonum, Per sepulchra regionum, Coget omnes ante thronum." 

"The trumpet, casting a wondrous sound
In tombs,
Summons all before the throne."

Nothing like standing there in the middle of it, one voice out of many, as the trumpets go bum bum bum bummmm and the drums roll.  I highly recommend it.  But it cannot not compare to the terror of your actual judgment.  I always visualize it like going before Oz, the great and terrible, bellowing down at those who dare to approach his feet.  And I am like the cowardly lion who thought he was going to impress the Great Oz by tying a bow in his mane.

I forget who said it, but i hard heard that we will be judged based on our deeds. 

But then I have also read/heard that we will be judged based on our love.  it would follow that our love is evident in our works and our obedience to God's commandments.  It would seem that if we really loved God, we would follow the law perfectly. 

I keep thinking about St. Mary Magdalene weeping at the foot of Our Lord, and how it would be possible for her to interrupt his meeting with the Pharisees to cry at his feet.  and he gave the pharisees the anlogy of the two debtors, the idea being that if you were forgiven of many sins you would love God more than the sinner who only sinned a few times and was forgiven.

But wouldn't it be better still to have never offended God in the first place?  How is it that Mary Magdalene, a former prostitute, could interrupt God Himself when He was trying to have a conversation, like a toddler comes in while his parents are discussing something important. 

Yet the judgment is supposed to be so horrific and terrible that I think I remember St. Alphonsus saying that even some of the holiest saints have trembled before their own deaths at the thought of their particular judgment.  If saints have that type of fear of the judgment, then what hope do the rest of us have?

[Non Nobis]

That music is tremendous; I envy you being able to stand in the midst of it. (Youtube just isn't sufficient).  How few of those singing and playing, and how few of those in the audience, actually think of their own judgement when hearing it?

Our judgement IS terrifying, but we should at the same time know that God is merciful and have true hope. The saints knew how close they came to damnation; that they would be saved only by the mercy of God.  They also realized the horror that awaited those who rejected God.  And they recognized the awesome might and goodness of God and that God deserved everything from them that they were unable to give. Because of all these things, they faced their judgement with fear and trembling.   But they didn't lose hope, because they believed in God's mercy.  Your fear is very different than theirs, because your hope is tottering.

God DESERVES our perfection, but understands that we are weak and imperfect, and does not damn us unless we reject His mercy. The good parents of the toddler who interrupted their important meeting do not whip him and shove him into a closet and not feed him for days.  They give him a scolding or other appropriate punishment and continue to love him.  They UNDERSTAND that he is only a toddler, and they love him.

Chestertonian, you take notice of examples of God's mercy, such as Mary Magdalen; but then you virtually dismiss them, saying, how is this even POSSIBLE?  You need to believe in God's mercy for the WORST of sinners.

Believe in God's mercy.

St. Padre Pio, pray for Chestertonian.   

[Bernadette]

[31]And when the Son of man shall come in his majesty, and all the angels with him, then shall he sit upon the seat of his majesty. [32] And all nations shall be gathered together before him, and he shall separate them one from another, as the shepherd separateth the sheep from the goats: [33] And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on his left. [34] Then shall the king say to them that shall be on his right hand: Come, ye blessed of my Father, possess you the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. [35] For I was hungry, and you gave me to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave me to drink; I was a stranger, and you took me in:

[36] Naked, and you covered me: sick, and you visited me: I was in prison, and you came to me. [37] Then shall the just answer him, saying: Lord, when did we see thee hungry, and fed thee; thirsty, and gave thee drink? [38] And when did we see thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and covered thee? [39] Or when did we see thee sick or in prison, and came to thee? [40] And the king answering, shall say to them: Amen I say to you, as long as you did it to one of these my least brethren, you did it to me.

[41] Then he shall say to them also that shall be on his left hand: Depart from me, you cursed, into everlasting fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels. [42] For I was hungry, and you gave me not to eat: I was thirsty, and you gave me not to drink. [43] I was a stranger, and you took me not in: naked, and you covered me not: sick and in prison, and you did not visit me. [44] Then they also shall answer him, saying: Lord, when did we see thee hungry, or thirsty, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister to thee? [45] Then he shall answer them, saying: Amen I say to you, as long as you did it not to one of these least, neither did you do it to me.

[46] And these shall go into everlasting punishment: but the just, into life everlasting. (Matthew 5:31-46)

[Stubborn]

Ecclesiasticus 15:18: "Before man is life and death, good and evil, that which he shall choose, shall be given him."

And I remind all of you that every one of us is going to stand before the judgement seat of God, and we're going to be judged on what we've done with our lives.

And it will not do, if we try, if we imagine that we will be able to try to say to Christ, when He calls up from our past, our sins, if we say ... "well, I did not know" ... "nobody told me."

Because our Lord's answer, if he bothers to give it at all, is simply "this is why you were given brains, my dear child. This is what your intelligence was for. You had nothing better to do than to find out what My law is, what My truth is, what I require of you. If you were able to make a living on Earth, that proves that you have enough sense to know what I wanted."-Fr. Wathen

[JubilateDeo]

I think you should pick a different Requiem. 

[mikemac]

Yep, It won't be an opera or the Wizard of Oz.  It will be either the glory of eternal Heaven or the damnation of eternal hell.  And it is our choice.  Don't give up.  If you have, there will be no more pity coming from me.  The worst thing for you at this time is a continuation of the pity party coming from a small cadre of SJWs.  Mary has not given up on you like you think.  It seems that you have given up on Mary and God.  This may sound tough at this time but you need to buck up and run back into the arms of the Sacred Heart of Jesus and the Immaculate Heart of Mary.

Amen

[Chestertonian]

it's kind of like in narnia when the children meet Mr. and mrs beaver and they talk about Aslan... the children ask "Is he quite safe?"  "Who said anything about safe?  Of course he isn't safe.  But he is good."  Our Lord is not safe.  nothing at all in the universe is ever safe.  He may be good, the sole arbiter of what is good and what is not good.  But He  has fireballs, whips, and so on.  i'd be lying if I said I wasn't afraid of Him.  It's a paradox because God isn't safe, yet...what safety can exist apart from Him?  How can god's arms be a refuge when those same arms wield a whip and can hurl fireballs. 

[Carleendiane]

it's kind of like in narnia when the children meet Mr. and mrs beaver and they talk about Aslan... the children ask "Is he quite safe?"  "Who said anything about safe?  Of course he isn't safe.  But he is good."  Our Lord is not safe.  nothing at all in the universe is ever safe.  He may be good, the sole arbiter of what is good and what is not good.  But He  has fireballs, whips, and so on.  i'd be lying if I said I wasn't afraid of Him.  It's a paradox because God isn't safe, yet...what safety can exist apart from Him?  How can god's arms be a refuge when those same arms wield a whip and can hurl fireballs.

Ches, it doesn't make sense that the way to God is MORE complex than what we are taught as children.  God only expects so much. We can not lose if we approach HIM as a child. With the confidence we had as children approaching our mother or father, who wished the very best for us. God wants us to come to Him as a child  with full confidence and total expectation,of a good and loving parent. I too fear God. He knows my heart, better than I do. But fear of God, is a virtue. You have fear of God, but have little confidence in His mercy. His mercy is the only thing I have pure confidence in.

[Bernadette]

it's kind of like in narnia when the children meet Mr. and mrs beaver and they talk about Aslan... the children ask "Is he quite safe?"  "Who said anything about safe?  Of course he isn't safe.  But he is good."  Our Lord is not safe.  nothing at all in the universe is ever safe.  He may be good, the sole arbiter of what is good and what is not good.  But He  has fireballs, whips, and so on.  i'd be lying if I said I wasn't afraid of Him.  It's a paradox because God isn't safe, yet...what safety can exist apart from Him?  How can god's arms be a refuge when those same arms wield a whip and can hurl fireballs.

And yet they were always safe with him.

And Our Lord tells us to learn of Him, for He is meek and humble of heart. We have to hate Him, before He allows us to depart from Him into the everlasting fire.

[Miriam_M]

it doesn't make sense that the way to God is MORE complex than what we are taught as children. 

This is actually a really important theological and philosophical point:  The simplicity of God.

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/06612a.htm#IC

http://www.iep.utm.edu/aq-ph-th/

https://www.thecatholicthing.org/2016/07/11/how-god-is-incomprehensible-simple-and-a-trinity/

Tied to His simplicity is His perfection (of course), His unity (Three persons united), and constancy.  This is unlike man, who is inconstant, variable, and imperfect.  Just because we do not always understand the reasons behind God's permissive Will does not mean that it is an inconstant or erratic Will, such as the various capricious decisions of the gods of antiquity.

[Miriam_M]

The connection I neglected to make was that just as God Himself is simple, so is the way to Him simple. That is to be distinguished from easy, or lacking difficulty.  The path is straight, and His Son made sure to emphasize that the path is also direct.

[Kaesekopf]

it's kind of like in narnia when the children meet Mr. and mrs beaver and they talk about Aslan... the children ask "Is he quite safe?"  "Who said anything about safe?  Of course he isn't safe.  But he is good."  Our Lord is not safe.  nothing at all in the universe is ever safe.  He may be good, the sole arbiter of what is good and what is not good.  But He  has fireballs, whips, and so on.  i'd be lying if I said I wasn't afraid of Him.  It's a paradox because God isn't safe, yet...what safety can exist apart from Him?  How can god's arms be a refuge when those same arms wield a whip and can hurl fireballs.

At a certain point, when do you just stop? 

You are focused almost completely on the 'justice' side of God while completely jettisoning every last bit of mercy and goodness and LOVE in God.

The solution to almost all of your posts is honestly pretty simple: Focus on the love and mercy of Our Lord.  Do not ever compare yourself to any other person on this planet, because you are very unique.  Do what you can in your state in life, and do it to the best of your ability.  That is what God will be judging you on.  He knows what you're going through, He knows what you're possible of. 

I've said it before and I guess I'll keep saying it til I leave SD or shut it down or you leave - God so loves you that He sent His only Son to Earth to die for your sins, so that you can be reunited with God. 

[Miriam_M]

it's kind of like in narnia when the children meet Mr. and mrs beaver and they talk about Aslan... the children ask "Is he quite safe?"  "Who said anything about safe?  Of course he isn't safe.  But he is good."  Our Lord is not safe.  nothing at all in the universe is ever safe.  He may be good, the sole arbiter of what is good and what is not good.  But He  has fireballs, whips, and so on.  i'd be lying if I said I wasn't afraid of Him.  It's a paradox because God isn't safe, yet...what safety can exist apart from Him?  How can god's arms be a refuge when those same arms wield a whip and can hurl fireballs.

At a certain point, when do you just stop? 

You are focused almost completely on the 'justice' side of God while completely jettisoning every last bit of mercy and goodness and LOVE in God.

But also focusing on self instead of on Him, and in a way that suggests that the self is the Prime Mover, the First Cause, etc.  Because we're just not "all that" is the very reason to focus on Him. 

I can easily take your (Ches') side of the argument but extend it.  Yes, you are "worthless."  And so is everybody else on planet Earth -- relative to God.  Why are you more specially worthless than anyone else?  The fact that you have such an objectively faulty belief that you are is a barometer of your isolation, but surely your reading habits and acquired knowledge do not suggest that you are uniquely depraved.  You are not a serial killer, not a corrupt dictator responsible for gross evil and injustice.

The problem with scrupulosity, as discussed by priests who confront it often, is that it produces a kind of "satisfying" or affirming comfort in one's own imagined, specially evil status, "too" unreachable by God's mercy.  But think about it:  That is nothing more than Pride -- to think of oneself and continually protest that one's own sins have greater impact on God than anyone else's sins, and that one's sins are so profoundly important that even God cannot forgive them.  Au contraire, because the reality is that we are all ordinary sinners.  Our mortal sins are ordinary, not "special."  Our sins are universal, not unique.  Our sins are within the circle of His mercy, not outside of it.  If you believe that your sins cannot be forgiven, you are believing a heresy that the Church has never taught, that Scripture has never taught, that Jesus Christ, your Lord and Savior, never uttered.  And in that case, He has not rejected you; you have rejected Him.

The solution to almost all of your posts is honestly pretty simple: Focus on the love and mercy of Our Lord.

[Kaesekopf]

(As a clarifier, there are no plans to shut this place down.  We are the best forum!)

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[Greg]

I don't mind what it is like, just as long as it does not have pop-up ads.