Author Topic: Bishop Williamson consecrated Father Geraldo Zendejas bishop today  (Read 2750 times)

Offline QuaeriteDominum

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Re: Bishop Williamson consecrated Father Geraldo Zendejas bishop today
« Reply #45 on: May 17, 2017, 04:51:16 PM »
You assume you know why they were censured and therefore it becomes fact for you. It is more likely they were censured for beach of protocol/obedience. The SSPX is not a democratic organization where priests get to publicly publish there own petitions and manifestos. Priests can say what they will in their sermons but to sign on to public chastizements above and beyond the SG of their order is out of line. That was also Fr Pfeiffer and +Williamson's issue ... more obedience than message. +Fellay needs to reign in the cowboys in the SSPX who feel they can spout off as the whim hits them in a public and published way.

To conflate the issues of Frs Rizzo and Vassal and your friend who determined a book would be damaging to childrens souls into this is typical resistance-speak. Do you infer that the SSPX has become 'evil'? No one is going to argue that over the last 47 years, the SSPX has been free of mistakes. +Lefebvre lamented that 50% of the priests he ordained left him. I guess statistically he had pretty poor judgement, right?

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You know it's funny for so many Catholics who are so big on the "truth" none of that matters when it comes to protecting the party. We bash liberals for the terms "phobic" or "ist" instead of arguing facts, but when facts get in the way of the party we use labels like "resistance" "Jansenist" "extremist" to avoid facts. Shouldn't shock me, reason is dead. It might interest you to know I don't know any of the resistance priests with the exception of Fr. Hewko who I haven't talked to in 12 years and that the only reason I don't mention the priests I speak of is to protect them from reprisals.

But go ahead believing I'm part of the resistance therefore I must be wrong. It makes a pleasant fiction.

I'm beginning to see why Greg's Kung Fu answer is the only answer that makes sense more and more by the day. This is sectarian thinking, not Catholicism.
BBT,

I'm not accusing you of being part of the neo-resistance. But you are using the exact justifications they use for rejecting ordinary jurisdiction from the Pope.

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Offline QuaeriteDominum

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Re: Bishop Williamson consecrated Father Geraldo Zendejas bishop today
« Reply #46 on: May 17, 2017, 04:54:56 PM »
Bishop Fellay hasn't exactly helped with his secret preambles and generally behaving like a Swiss banker.  Knowing the SSPX was choc full of conspiracy nuts, he should, if he understood his audience, have played it with a very straight bat from the get go.

Had he explained what, when, why, how, where and who, like any decent salesman does, he would have kept supporters onside and potentially have won MORE supporters from conservative ranks.  He's running a religious society, not MI6.

The deal hinges on 1 thing.  Trust.  No SSPX supporter trusts Rome.

If you are trying to build trust the last thing you do is behave like Secret Squirrel.

I would bet that if +Fellay had a do-over, he would have changed course on a few things. One of them is how +Williamson was handled.

But Secret Squirrel or not, I predict that a deal will not be made if not ratified by the SSPX General Council of Superiors and Elders.

Remember that he is making decisions based on the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd Order members of the SSPX. John Q. Public is not directly affected by his decisions unless John Q. attends one of their chapels. And in that case, there is no contract or promise that the laity will get a vote in priestly decisions. One votes with one's feet, in that case.
How does a priestly union have "second and third orders"? 

;)

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The Sisters of the SSPX and the Third Order. They are allowed under canon law.

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Offline Kaesekopf

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Re: Bishop Williamson consecrated Father Geraldo Zendejas bishop today
« Reply #47 on: May 17, 2017, 05:54:33 PM »
The society is not an order, though.  They are a priestly union.

Laity might be able to join lay associations, but the sspx does not have a third order. 

Also, citation needed on the canon law bit.

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Offline Maximilian

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Re: Bishop Williamson consecrated Father Geraldo Zendejas bishop today
« Reply #48 on: May 17, 2017, 10:14:13 PM »

 the sspx does not have a third order. 


Yes, they do. You might question it's validity, but the simple fact of reality is that the SSPX Third Order does exist.

http://archives.sspx.org/third_orders/sspx_third_order/sspx_third_order.htm

http://sspx.org/en/sspx-third-order-explanation
 

Offline Kaesekopf

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Re: Bishop Williamson consecrated Father Geraldo Zendejas bishop today
« Reply #49 on: May 17, 2017, 10:32:16 PM »

 the sspx does not have a third order. 


Yes, they do. You might question it's validity, but the simple fact of reality is that the SSPX Third Order does exist.

http://archives.sspx.org/third_orders/sspx_third_order/sspx_third_order.htm

http://sspx.org/en/sspx-third-order-explanation

Right.  What I mean, of course, is that what the SSPX calls "Third Order" is not an actual Third Order, but rather an association of the lay faithful.

I can call my group the Knights Templar but that doesn't make it any such thing.  :lol:
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Offline Michael Wilson

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Re: Bishop Williamson consecrated Father Geraldo Zendejas bishop today
« Reply #50 on: May 18, 2017, 08:57:17 AM »
Kaese is correct; the SSPX is officially a "pius union."
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Offline Maximilian

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Re: Bishop Williamson consecrated Father Geraldo Zendejas bishop today
« Reply #51 on: May 18, 2017, 03:42:52 PM »

What I mean, of course, is that what the SSPX calls "Third Order" is not an actual Third Order, but rather an association of the lay faithful.

The SSPX doesn't seem to agree with you about that.


I can call my group the Knights Templar but that doesn't make it any such thing. 

If you form a group, and you call them "Knights Templar," and they are in fact Knights Templar, then that does make them that thing.
 

Offline Maximilian

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Re: Bishop Williamson consecrated Father Geraldo Zendejas bishop today
« Reply #52 on: May 18, 2017, 03:45:13 PM »

http://archives.sspx.org/third_orders/sspx_third_order/sspx_third_order.htm

Third Order
of the Society of St. Pius X


Third Order chaplain
Rev. Adam Purdy, Chaplain
SSPX Third Order
Blessed Virgin Mary, Mother of God Priory
2656 Warners Road Warners, NY 13164


SSPX Third Order FAQs


1.  What is the Third Order of the Society of St. Pius X?

The Third Order is the fifth family of the Society of St. Pius X. You probably know that the first family in time was the priests and seminarians. This is the most important family of the SSPX, since the latter is a "priestly society of common life without vows." The priesthood is indeed the main concern of the Society. Our faithful know of St. Thomas Aquinas Seminary in Winona, MN, which is one of the five major seminaries of the SSPX, a Society which now has worldwide nearly 500 priests and nearly 200 seminarians.

The second family is the sisters of the SSPX, which has over 200 hundred members, including professed, novices, and postulants. They are the helpers of the priests by their daily prayer life (Mass, Rosary, Divine Office, Adoration of the Blessed Sacrament), by their active apostolate (sacristy, catechism, visits to the sick), and their practical work (kitchen, washing, etc.). Their formation house in the United States District is the Sacred Heart Novitiate located in Browerville, MN.

The third family is the brothers. Presently they have about 50 members who devote themselves all over the world to supporting the priests. Several young Americans belong to this family, the brothers' novitiate in the United States District is located at St. Thomas Aquinas Seminary in Winona, MN.

The fourth family is the oblates, persons living in common with the priests, seminarians, brothers, and nuns but without taking vows. They remain lay-persons but are nevertheless a great help in the different houses in which they are to be found.

The fifth family to come into being is the Third Order, which was founded in 1980.

2.  What was the occasion of the foundation of the Third Order?

For several years, a number of Catholics had been suggesting the idea. Even pressing demands for it were not uncommon. A sample letter:

Dear Father,... often my rosary is the for the intentions of the Society of St. Pius X. In this connection, I would like to know if there exists a Third Order in the Society of St. Pius X and what its requirements are. I would like to live a more consecrated life... a more total gift of myself in the spirit of the Society. Is this possible? Please advise me.

The priests, therefore felt the need of providing the faithful with a means of living the evangelical ideals, of keeping Faith, Hope, and Charity in the midst of the unprecedented upheaval in the Church, and thus of finding the protection of an unassailable spiritual strength. They told Archbishop Lefebvre of their concerns and desires, and of the pressing appeals from the anguished faithful, abandoned without defense in the ruins of the structures of the Church, which formally secured and maintained their faith. The realization of the Third Order was the answer to the Archbishop.

3.  What is the purpose of the Third Order?

The SSPX's Third Order is an "Order set up to secure for souls living in the world a school of sanctity." Sanctification of individuals and those for whom members of the Third Order are responsible for; such is the purpose of the Third Order. Like the old traditional Third Orders (Carmelite, Dominican, Franciscan...), the SSPX's Third Order is a state of life midway between the cloister and the world, or to put it in different words, a religious Order which will penetrate into Christian homes in the midst of the world.

Do you think that it is important for someone who is able to fulfill the obligations of the Third Order to decide to become a member?

Definitely yes. Listen to this story:

St. Pius X had a deep understanding of the needs of the Church and therefore often had penetrating insights. Happening to be one day amidst a group of Cardinals, the Holy Father said to them "What is the thing most necessary at the present time to save society?"  'Build Catholic schools," one said. "No."  "Multiply churches," replied another. "No again." "Increase the recruiting of the clergy" said a third. "No, no," replied the pope. "What is most necessary at the present time is to have in each parish a group of lay persons at the same time virtuous, enlightened, determined, and really apostolic." (Soul of the Apostolate; Dom Jean-Baptiste Chautard, OCSO)

To save the world, St. Pius X counted on fervent Catholics devoting themselves to the apostolate by word and action, but above all by example.

Therefore, what is the most important thing in each of our United States' missions is to have a small group of fervent souls seriously practicing the interior life. This body of elite Christians will be as the leaven and will lift up the spiritual level of the whole parish by their prayer life, by their discreet but efficacious apostolic action, but above all by their good example. The Third Order provides souls thirsting for perfection with a set of rules which can help them to attain this goal and thereby to sanctify their family and the whole mission. For instance, if ten persons in the congregation were to stay after Mass for the thanksgiving (because they are members of the Third Order), I am sure that within a few months the whole parish would be making a proper thanksgiving!

4.  What is the spirit of the Third Order?

It is centered on the devotion to the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass, which is nothing else than the Sacrifice of the Cross renewed on the altar in an unbloody manner. The members of the Third Order unite themselves to Our Lord, the Divine Victim, offering Himself up out of love for His Father and for souls. In this they find the strength that they need on the difficult path to holiness. Devotion to Our Lady of Sorrows, to St. Joseph, and to St. Pius X are also present in the soul of the member of the Third Order.

5.  What are the main obligations for a member of the Third Order?

Some may be called negative: for instance, habitual abstinence from television.  Why? Not only because most of the shows are near occasions of sin by their indecent pictures, but also because even when not featuring sex or violence, TV remains essentially imbued with the spirit of the world. This spirit is a spirit of love of self, of pride, of comfort, of self-enjoyment, of earthly pleasure. This spirit is quite opposed to the spirit of Our Lord, which is a spirit of love for God, of humility, of sacrifice, of the Cross, of true spiritual joy.  Radio and newspapers are sufficient means to keep oneself aware of the news.

6.  But are there other positive obligations?

Yes, for instance morning and evening prayer, daily rosary, confession once a month.  But since these obligations are common to all good Catholics, some other obligations are proper to the members of the Third Order: 15 minutes of mental prayer every day (or daily Mass where it is possible) and a retreat every two years (see the retreat schedule for a listing of dates and locations in the United States District).

7.  How can I become a member of the Third Order?

Once you have read and meditated upon the Third Order Rule, just fill out the application form and send it back to the address noted. Dear reader, God is expecting your generosity. God took upon Himself a body and a soul to die for you out of the excess of His love. And you, what do you do for Him? "Let us therefore love God, because God first hath loved us." Pray to God so that He may give you the courage to enroll yourself in the SSPX's Third Order, for the glory of the Most Blessed Trinity and for the salvation of your soul and of many others! God bless you!
 

Offline ermy_law

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Re: Bishop Williamson consecrated Father Geraldo Zendejas bishop today
« Reply #53 on: May 18, 2017, 05:20:44 PM »

What I mean, of course, is that what the SSPX calls "Third Order" is not an actual Third Order, but rather an association of the lay faithful.

The SSPX doesn't seem to agree with you about that.

The Third Order newsletter recently had an entire issue dedicated to the question whether it is an actual Third Order. The short answer is: No. So the SSPX would agree that the Third Order is not an "actual" Third Order.
 

Offline QuaeriteDominum

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Re: Bishop Williamson consecrated Father Geraldo Zendejas bishop today
« Reply #54 on: May 19, 2017, 12:17:25 PM »
The society is not an order, though.  They are a priestly union.

Laity might be able to join lay associations, but the sspx does not have a third order. 

Also, citation needed on the canon law bit.

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Sorry, my mis-speak on the Canon law comment. it would be found in the Modus Procedendi of the Sacred Congregation Consecrated Life and Societies of Apostolic Life.
As to whether or not the Third Order of the SSPX is canonically erected - it can only be canonically erected by either a diocesan bishop within his diocese and under his oversight or as an association of Pontifical Right under the authority of the Sacred Congregation. In reality then, it is a public association of the faithful which the initial founder, Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre, erected to include laity who aspire to a more fervent prayer life and discipline, and who wish to share in the combined prayers and graces of the priests and contemplatives associated with the SSPX.
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Offline Older Salt

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Re: Bishop Williamson consecrated Father Geraldo Zendejas bishop today
« Reply #55 on: May 20, 2017, 10:37:05 AM »

does anyone know if there is a Resistance SSPX in North Carolina?

Why?
If they offer Mass close to us we shall go.
Stay away from the near occasion of sin

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Offline QuaeriteDominum

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Re: Bishop Williamson consecrated Father Geraldo Zendejas bishop today
« Reply #56 on: May 23, 2017, 12:36:37 PM »

does anyone know if there is a Resistance SSPX in North Carolina?

Why?
If they offer Mass close to us we shall go.

You would have to be more specific. Are you interested in the resistance group that thinks Bishop Williamson is a modernist and heretic, or the resistance group that thinks Fr. Pfeiffer is an egomaniac, or the resistance group that thinks both Bishop Williamson and Fr. Pfeiffer are heretics? Let me know and I'll send you the appropriate website URL.
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Offline Inquisitor

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Re: Bishop Williamson consecrated Father Geraldo Zendejas bishop today
« Reply #57 on: May 28, 2017, 08:58:28 AM »
What is the difference between the "Resistance" and the regular SSPX? Why don't they get along?

It's the Jews... ;D
 
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Offline PerEvangelicaDicta

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Re: Bishop Williamson consecrated Father Geraldo Zendejas bishop today
« Reply #58 on: May 28, 2017, 01:07:54 PM »
What is the difference between the "Resistance" and the regular SSPX? Why don't they get along?

It's the Jews... ;D

<sigh> :rolleyes:   Is your point that they are not subversive and destructive, and that Church hierarchy has not united with them in some kind of diabolical spiritual union where they no longer need salvation and Christ's torture and death was for nothing? 

Quote
You would have to be more specific. Are you interested in the resistance group that thinks Bishop Williamson is a modernist and heretic, or the resistance group that thinks Fr. Pfeiffer is an egomaniac, or the resistance group that thinks both Bishop Williamson and Fr. Pfeiffer are heretics? Let me know and I'll send you the appropriate website URL.

QD, you make a great point.
To the bolded part, for those who've followed the sad developments in Boston, Ky, it's way more serious than just egomania.  They have all the hallmarks of a cult.  The apostate amateur exorcist who runs the 'seminary' and that outrageous scandal with the phony bishop who was not even an ordained priest, dispatched to provide sacraments, with full knowledge of Fr. Pf, turns the stomach.  It's a classic example of what can happen as the Church splinters, a la the Reformation.

« Last Edit: May 28, 2017, 01:28:35 PM by PerEvangelicaDicta »
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Offline Irishcyclist

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Re: Bishop Williamson consecrated Father Geraldo Zendejas bishop today
« Reply #59 on: June 02, 2017, 09:16:04 PM »
Yes, but wasn't Bishop Williamson excommunication lifted and then he was excommunicated again?

Arguable St Athanasius being exiled 5 times suffered excommunication as well 5 times ;)