Author Topic: Dinosaur skeleton found with skin and soft tissues intact  (Read 2678 times)

Offline Maximilian

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Dinosaur skeleton found with skin and soft tissues intact
« on: May 11, 2017, 10:04:57 PM »
What do you think about this?

https://arstechnica.com/science/2017/05/rare-dinosaur-with-preserved-skin-and-bone-crushing-tail-found-in-montana/

Rare dinosaur with preserved skin and bone-crushing tail found in Montana

One of the most exciting things about this find is how much of Zuul's soft tissues were preserved, giving scientists a unique opportunity to see the texture of its skin imprinted on the rock that encased it. Zuul's spikes and scales were embedded in its skin, so now we have a very clear picture of just how dragon-like this animal appeared. Spines protruded from its body, much like the sharp plates that run down Godzilla's spine.

Arbour and Evans will also be able to run chemical analyses on the mummified skin, searching for proteins that will hint at Zuul's molecular biology. Writing on the Royal Museum of Ontario website, the researchers map out their next moves:

Quote
The incredible preservation of Zuul’s skeleton gives us the opportunity to use cutting-edge molecular palaeontology techniques to search for original proteins and other organic biomolecules in the soft tissue. We’ll also be using radiometric dating analyses to study the age of Zuul and the surrounding rocks, and will describe the other plants and animals from the quarry that lived in the same ecosystem as Zuul.
 
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Offline GloriaPatri

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Re: Dinosaur skeleton found with skin and soft tissues intact
« Reply #1 on: May 11, 2017, 11:01:42 PM »
Under certain conditions organic tissue can be preserved for extremely long periods of time. This isn't too schocking.
 
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Offline dymphna17

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Re: Dinosaur skeleton found with skin and soft tissues intact
« Reply #2 on: May 11, 2017, 11:08:42 PM »
Did it answer to the name of 'Jimmy Carter'?  If so, leave it be, he's just shedding his old skin so he can look like a real boy again.  He says a Shaman in Wyoming told him to do it.   :shrug:

/Sorry Maxamilian.  I'll delete if it's too intrusive.
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Offline Maximilian

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Re: Dinosaur skeleton found with skin and soft tissues intact
« Reply #3 on: May 12, 2017, 12:31:33 AM »

Under certain conditions organic tissue can be preserved for extremely long periods of time.

Like 60 million years? Really?
 
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Offline GloriaPatri

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Re: Dinosaur skeleton found with skin and soft tissues intact
« Reply #4 on: May 12, 2017, 07:22:08 AM »

Under certain conditions organic tissue can be preserved for extremely long periods of time.

Like 60 million years? Really?

Organic tissue decays because of exposure to the elements or the presence of bacteria that consume the dead material. Eliminate those and organic material can be preserved indefinitely.

A similar, though much more recent, example would be Wolly Mammoths that end up frozen and preserved for tens of thousands of years. When they end up frozen the bacteria that would normally decompose their bodies end up frozen as well, stalling the process indefinitely. And while this dinosaur may not have been frozen, it is still possible for a situation to occur in which its bacteria never got through the entire decomposition process.
 
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Offline Maximilian

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Re: Dinosaur skeleton found with skin and soft tissues intact
« Reply #5 on: May 12, 2017, 12:38:10 PM »

Under certain conditions organic tissue can be preserved for extremely long periods of time.

Like 60 million years? Really?

Organic tissue decays because of exposure to the elements or the presence of bacteria that consume the dead material. Eliminate those and organic material can be preserved indefinitely.

A similar, though much more recent, example would be Wolly Mammoths that end up frozen and preserved for tens of thousands of years. When they end up frozen the bacteria that would normally decompose their bodies end up frozen as well, stalling the process indefinitely. And while this dinosaur may not have been frozen, it is still possible for a situation to occur in which its bacteria never got through the entire decomposition process.

There is no comparison between thousands of years and millions of years. There are at least 3 orders of magnitude differential, so the comparison is meaningless.

According the accepted paradigm, the entire earth has shifted and been transformed since this particular dinosaur died. Mt. Everest has grown from nothing into the tallest mountain in the world. Entire seas have vanished while new continents have been formed.

Yet soft tissue with organic proteins has been preserved?
 
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Offline Habitual_Ritual

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Re: Dinosaur skeleton found with skin and soft tissues intact
« Reply #6 on: May 12, 2017, 01:59:33 PM »
Under certain conditions organic tissue can be preserved for extremely long periods of time. This isn't too schocking.
Millions of years? Getta town you clown .

Also partial DNA samples have been take from dino bones. No way DNA survives millions of years, under any conditions
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Offline clau clau

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Re: Dinosaur skeleton found with skin and soft tissues intact
« Reply #7 on: May 12, 2017, 06:10:16 PM »
Under certain conditions organic tissue can be preserved for extremely long periods of time. This isn't too schocking.

Like McDonalds french fries perhaps ...

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Offline PerEvangelicaDicta

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Re: Dinosaur skeleton found with skin and soft tissues intact
« Reply #8 on: May 13, 2017, 01:00:57 AM »
What do ya'll think the agenda is?
I used to collaborate with paleontologists in a limited manner, a dream come true for a little girl who studied dinosaurs since early childhood.  But I have many doubts now about all variety of scientific discoveries and research findings, since junk science rules the day, and with outcome driven funding so predominant. 
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Offline Greg

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Re: Dinosaur skeleton found with skin and soft tissues intact
« Reply #9 on: May 13, 2017, 02:36:35 AM »
Surely 60 million years of gamma rays and background radiation would break down soft tissue in anything.  Airline crews are noticeably exposed to ionising radiation compared to non frequent flyers over a 30 year career.  Over 60 million years a dead reptile in the ground would have enough gamma rays and high energy particle blasting through the earth and through it, plus radiation from the earth itself that I would have thought that no soft tissue could last.
 
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Offline Quaremerepulisti

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Re: Dinosaur skeleton found with skin and soft tissues intact
« Reply #10 on: May 13, 2017, 01:10:48 PM »
Surely 60 million years of gamma rays and background radiation would break down soft tissue in anything.  Airline crews are noticeably exposed to ionising radiation compared to non frequent flyers over a 30 year career.  Over 60 million years a dead reptile in the ground would have enough gamma rays and high energy particle blasting through the earth and through it, plus radiation from the earth itself that I would have thought that no soft tissue could last.

Yes, but you need to take into account the soft tissue being surrounded by bone and/or minerals from fossilization, which will attenuate the radiation.
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Offline Greg

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Re: Dinosaur skeleton found with skin and soft tissues intact
« Reply #11 on: May 14, 2017, 01:01:19 AM »
Gamma rays past through many feet of concrete.  They are not likely to be "attenuated" by minerals.

 
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Offline Elizabeth

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Re: Dinosaur skeleton found with skin and soft tissues intact
« Reply #12 on: May 14, 2017, 03:51:58 PM »
What do ya'll think the agenda is?
I used to collaborate with paleontologists in a limited manner, a dream come true for a little girl who studied dinosaurs since early childhood.  But I have many doubts now about all variety of scientific discoveries and research findings, since junk science rules the day, and with outcome driven funding so predominant.
Thank you for asking, dear PerEvangelica.  I flat out believe these are dragons.  I think the millions given to the Smithsonian Institution to promote atheism/evolution have worked to change the truth.  The Smithsonian Museum of Natural History is a temple of masonic propaganda here in DC.
(I often go, and when I check, they are still dragon skeletons there. 8))
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Offline Quaremerepulisti

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Re: Dinosaur skeleton found with skin and soft tissues intact
« Reply #13 on: May 14, 2017, 07:41:42 PM »
Gamma rays past through many feet of concrete.  They are not likely to be "attenuated" by minerals.

Please rejoin this discussion when you have at least a basic understanding of the physics involved.  And no, putting attenuated in scare quotes doesn't change the fact that it happens.
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Offline ABlaine

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Re: Dinosaur skeleton found with skin and soft tissues intact
« Reply #14 on: May 14, 2017, 08:48:47 PM »
Geology was my field of study in university and this is one of the single most frustrating threads I've seen in a while.

Regarding gamma rays

https://physics.stackexchange.com/questions/142005/how-earth-protected-from-the-gamma-rays-generated-by-sun

Fewer than you think even reach Earth, those that do are dealt with in the upper atmosphere.

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Regarding the fact that over the last 60 million years mountains have grown and oceans have vanished.

Yeah, and? Certain parts of the earth are very geologically active (Hawaii, the Himalaya, etc) some are not active at all (Canadian Shield, etc). Plate tectonic theory allows for some areas to be changing incredibly rapidly, while others aren't at all. The earth is a complicated environment and, just as the weather and climate very by location, so too does the geological environment.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plate_tectonics

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Regarding DNA, as far as I am aware the only substantial DNA recovery has been from Wolly Mammoths. But either way, DNA can last a long, long time but it is limited.

http://www.livescience.com/23861-fossil-dna-half-life.html

Obviously partials of DNA might last even longer. This is not something that I studied in depth.

Either way, the point is moot as DNA is far more fragile that other forms of organic matter. So it doesn't really matter as they are not claiming to have recovered DNA in this case, just skin and some other tissue.

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Lastly, soft tissue preservation in sedimentary rock that was rapidly deposited is not that uncommon. If you are interested in reading about other instances of where this has happened, how it has happened, and what the processes are that allowed for it and why they are rare, I'll refer you to this paper (it reviews several different instances where this has occurred):

http://www4.ncsu.edu/~lezanno/Research_files/annurev-earth-final-published_1.pdf


The fact that this happens doesn't somehow negate the fact that God created the universe nor the general teachings of the Church so I don't really see the point of constantly grasping at these straws.
« Last Edit: May 14, 2017, 08:50:31 PM by ABlaine »
 
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