Dove Bar Tyranny

[Alphonsus Jr.]

Now, I do understand that when you have an undergarment catalog, you need to have pictures of women in their unmentionables.  Okay, fine, but keep it out of the realm of the seductive.  It's immodest and just plain odd when sold to women.

It's not really odd when you think about the purpose, which is to make women feel dissatisfied so they will spend a lot of money (on very poorly made underwear). It says "this is what you should look like, so spend spend spend".

They just look slutty.  And when they're giving those slutty looks to other women, it just gets creepy.

Such catalogs are in fact made for men. They're designed to inflame them with lust and to thus want to see their women dressed like the skanks in the catalog.

[Spooky]

Calling someone a "fatty" isn't "rejecting Orwellian linguistic sterilization". It's just being a dick. If you said Obese, overweight or even just fat (without the diminutive y) that would be descriptive. "Fatty" is just a epithet.

[Alphonsus Jr.]

Calling someone a "fatty" isn't "rejecting Orwellian linguistic sterilization". It's just being a dick. If you said Obese, overweight or even just fat (without the diminutive y) that would be descriptive. "Fatty" is just a epithet.

That was too much. In future, I'd prefer it if you'd just call me a phallus.

[Spooky]

Calling someone a "fatty" isn't "rejecting Orwellian linguistic sterilization". It's just being a dick. If you said Obese, overweight or even just fat (without the diminutive y) that would be descriptive. "Fatty" is just a epithet.

That was too much. In future, I'd prefer it if you'd just call me a phallus.

Deal.

[erin is nice]

I don't think the word "fatties" is appropriate.

Yet I propose that it's more appropriate than ever to call fatties fatties. As today's Orwellian processing accelerates, it becomes ever more important to reject all linguistic sterilization by rigorously calling things what they are. Thus, for instance, I call sodomites sodomites. And I call fatties fatties. Charity of course demands that I don't say this to any particular fatty, but when speaking of fatties in general I'll continue to go ahead and call fatties fatties. Of course if I'm around a fatty I won't refer to other fatties as fatties. But if she asks me if she looks like a fatty and additionally says, "Don't lie for the sake of charity," I'll then answer by saying something like, "Alas, you do exhibit certain fatty tendencies."

Similarly:

1) An abortion (rather: surgical infanticide) isn't "had," "gotten," or "performed." It's inflicted, committed, perpetrated.

2) Surgical infanticide is inflicted, committed, and perpetrated not upon a mere fetus, but upon a fetal human.

3) Like Josef Mengele, those who inflict, commit, perpetrate surgical infanticide are no longer worthy of the name of doctors. Rather, let's call them surgical hitmen or surgical terrorists.

4) Nor are those who hire surgical hitmen/terrorists to be called victims. They're co-conspirators.

Putting it all together, we get something like this:

"Jane and Tom took out a contract on their baby's life by hiring a surgical hitman to commit infanticide."

Being a different size is not a moral issue, and should not be compared with moral issues. There is no reason to refer to anyone as a "fatty", except to be a jerk.

[Jayne]

I don't think the word "fatties" is appropriate.

Yet I propose that it's more appropriate than ever to call fatties fatties. As today's Orwellian processing accelerates, it becomes ever more important to reject all linguistic sterilization by rigorously calling things what they are. Thus, for instance, I call sodomites sodomites. And I call fatties fatties. Charity of course demands that I don't say this to any particular fatty, but when speaking of fatties in general I'll continue to go ahead and call fatties fatties. Of course if I'm around a fatty I won't refer to other fatties as fatties. But if she asks me if she looks like a fatty and additionally says, "Don't lie for the sake of charity," I'll then answer by saying something like, "Alas, you do exhibit certain fatty tendencies."

Given the statistics, the odds are very high that some of the people reading your words here are overweight.  So you are "around" people who could take your rude term personally and be hurt or offended by it. 

A traditional idea that I would like to see revived is that men guard their speech in mixed company.  There was a time when a gentleman made an effort to speak politely around ladies.  Nobody called it 'Orwellian processing".  It was just good manners.

[Innocent Smith]

I don't think the word "fatties" is appropriate.

Yet I propose that it's more appropriate than ever to call fatties fatties. As today's Orwellian processing accelerates, it becomes ever more important to reject all linguistic sterilization by rigorously calling things what they are. Thus, for instance, I call sodomites sodomites. And I call fatties fatties. Charity of course demands that I don't say this to any particular fatty, but when speaking of fatties in general I'll continue to go ahead and call fatties fatties. Of course if I'm around a fatty I won't refer to other fatties as fatties. But if she asks me if she looks like a fatty and additionally says, "Don't lie for the sake of charity," I'll then answer by saying something like, "Alas, you do exhibit certain fatty tendencies."

Similarly:

1) An abortion (rather: surgical infanticide) isn't "had," "gotten," or "performed." It's inflicted, committed, perpetrated.

2) Surgical infanticide is inflicted, committed, and perpetrated not upon a mere fetus, but upon a fetal human.

3) Like Josef Mengele, those who inflict, commit, perpetrate surgical infanticide are no longer worthy of the name of doctors. Rather, let's call them surgical hitmen or surgical terrorists.

4) Nor are those who hire surgical hitmen/terrorists to be called victims. They're co-conspirators.

Putting it all together, we get something like this:

"Jane and Tom took out a contract on their baby's life by hiring a surgical hitman to commit infanticide."

Or:

"Shaquilla is considering hiring a hitman to perpetrate surgical infanticide."

The reverse is true as well. Things are rigorously not to be called what they're not. For example, sodomite "marriage." Notice the quotes, which serve to communicate the impossibility of any such thing, along with the bonus of providing a little stab of mockery at this absurdity. Notice also the refusal to a) morally neutralize the situation, and b) wage further war upon that most abused and formerly cheerful little word, gay. When speaking, by they way, the quotes are best supplied by the fingers, a slight furrowing of the brow, and a withering tone of voice.

Can't disagree with any of this. Well said.

You are a good writer.

Yes, I did feel the need to somewhat mock the worry over the message in the Dove Bar. "Message in a Dove Bar". That's pretty funny when you think about it. Was that a song by Sting? I do believe we have much bigger fish to fry. But now that the thread has moved in this direction, I guess it was all worth it.

Getting back to the Dove Bar, these events can become a teaching opportunity to children and perpetual adolescents of any age who may need help in seeing the world in black and white. And I realize that is all you were doing. Just giving a suggestion to us. Not that you think we are a bunch of perpetual adolescents.

Everywhere that a lie is imparted, a truth can be told. It is something I am constantly doing in my life already.

So no, I did not deserve a salute, but on the other hand you do deserve one.

Well done.

[Innocent Smith]

Now, I do understand that when you have an undergarment catalog, you need to have pictures of women in their unmentionables.  Okay, fine, but keep it out of the realm of the seductive.  It's immodest and just plain odd when sold to women.

It's not really odd when you think about the purpose, which is to make women feel dissatisfied so they will spend a lot of money (on very poorly made underwear). It says "this is what you should look like, so spend spend spend".

They just look slutty.  And when they're giving those slutty looks to other women, it just gets creepy.

Such catalogs are in fact made for men. They're designed to inflame them with lust and to thus want to see their women dressed like the skanks in the catalog.

Well this is true. But the real reason, if I were to guess, is just to keep that perpetual lust alive in men. They have to keep men on the hunt for anything that has long hair and moves. And they are brilliant at it. It does not take us monkeys long to realize that anywhere, anytime, we may get a hit of sexual satisfaction. 

I don't see it so much anymore, but I do recall very sexy women in lingerie in the first section of major daily newspapers. And this was at a time when they were still considered to be somewhat serious publications. And I'm not talking about the cheesy daily that always existed in major cities. Now they are all equally cheesy.

Further proof that "Democracy" always travels down and finds its own level. Kind of like water. But that is another story.

So while you are even reading the news and trying to understand something of importance, you can easily be distracted by what they want you to place the greater importance on. And I suppose it gets some people to keep turning the pages.

Hmmmm. Maybe there is someone even better on the next page!

A lot of advertising is not really aimed at selling a particular product. But it is the justification of the entire system in which we live and how we behave. Just ask John Watson or any of the behaviorists who have followed in his footsteps. As ownership becomes more concentrated, and the same entities own the competition in many different ways, it becomes more true.

You have to think of it like Pool Reporting to gather and disseminate news. Advertising gets the job done by encouraging you to buy something. And these businesses all know they will get their share. One way or the other. Even if some knock-offs benefit from the so-called premier brands, or you purchase the equal version offered by a competitor.

Advertising is the new Gospel. It's the good news. The media has replaced the Church. For they give you the good and the bad and help you navigate and order your life.

Liturgical seasons are replaced by secular seasons. I could go on, but you get the idea.

[Jayne]

Can't disagree with any of this. Well said.

You are a good writer.

Being a good writer does not excuse being rude and offensive.

[Innocent Smith]

Can't disagree with any of this. Well said.

You are a good writer.

Being a good writer does not excuse being rude and offensive.

I think you already made your point. Can we move on? I said other things and if you are just going to stay on being offended, we are not going to get anywhere.

I don't have a dog in the fatty fight.

But yes, Jayne, I agree that we should not try to be rude and offensive.

But, then again, couching everything in niceties has the tendency to devoid anything of meaning. And I do believe we have reached the point where a little bluntness is not only a good thing, but it is quite necessary. 

You do realize that there are men here who are not simulating the playing of video games and trying to destroy their opponents, do you not? And, yes, we may be a little blunt at times.

Please don't tell me that because some may be offended by little comments that we are going to have to start an all male board. I like being somewhat anonymous here. And I also enjoy the fact that for all you know I may actually be a woman myself.

So again, I ask, can we please move on?

[Jayne]

So again, I ask, can we please move on?

In my experience, a person who really wants to move on lets the other person have the last word and just drops the subject.  People who write a big post about how they were right and let's please move on, tend to want to "win" the argument.

[Alphonsus Jr.]

Being a different size is not a moral issue, and should not be compared with moral issues.

The hard truth is that being a fatty is often a result of sloth. Right now, for example, I could lose about ten to fifteen pounds. This is a result of sloth. If I gain much more weight, I'll be changing my name here to: Fatty Slothario.

[Jayne]

Being a different size is not a moral issue, and should not be compared with moral issues.

The hard truth is that being a fatty is often a result of sloth. Right now, for example, I could lose about ten to fifteen pounds. This is a result of sloth. If I gain much more weight, I'll be changing my name here to: Fatty Slothario.

That is not a truth, hard or otherwise. It is a myth.  Being overweight is hardly ever a moral issue and treating it like one is very wrong for several reasons.

[Alphonsus Jr.]

Given the statistics, the odds are very high that some of the people reading your words here are overweight.  So you are "around" people who could take your rude term personally and be hurt or offended by it. 

True. And they're just going to have to live with it. Contrary to today's processing, worse things happen than being offended. Speaking of today's processing, reject the Outrage Imperative.

A traditional idea that I would like to see revived is that men guard their speech in mixed company.  There was a time when a gentleman made an effort to speak politely around ladies.  Nobody called it 'Orwellian processing".  It was just good manners.

Another excellent traditional idea for revival involves women knowing their place, which generally excludes their participation in debate or appointment of themselves as cops. Reminder: Reject the Outrage Imperative. The measure of your shock at that statement is a measure of your processing.

Rest assured, Jayne K, the more you and any other women here try to police me, the more "offensive" I'll get. You've stepped into the arena and shall be treated accordingly.

[Alphonsus Jr.]

....So no, I did not deserve a salute, but on the other hand you do deserve one.

Well done.

Thanks. Yes, the real message is about being constantly alert for assaults of the rot. They're waged under even the most delightful of wrappers.