Monogamy

[LuxVera]

Let me first point out that I am not debating against "marriage between one man and one woman" Church teaching(s) - because I believe in Catholic teaching on holy matrimony.

Now, there are two ladies who are acquaintances of mine; I don't really know too much about them. One is in her early 40s and apparently divorced-no kids. The other has been married to the same husband for at least 30 years and has 2 kids. As you can imagine, they are not really "religious" though my guess is both come from some sort of general Christian/Catholic background.

The conversation was about what classes one took in college. She stated in one of her classes she had to read a book about some ethnic groups in Africa where a man would have multiple "wives." Now this is fairly common knowledge that throughout most of human history, humans have not really been 1:1 when it comes to marriage.

To summarize said conversation, married lady stated when she was young reading this book, she found the concept of one man-multiple women "gross." But now since she is in her mid to late 50s, she can see why it is  beneficial (to her at least): "I could get help with all the laundry, the cooking, watching the kids," etc.

I asked her-in formal language (meaning I don't use my colloquial speak) "would you really want your husband to "go in" to 50 or 100 other women?" To be honest, I can't remember her exact reply but it was something along the lines of "it doesn't matter" and from younger divorced lady, "it's normal, monogamy is very recent in human history." The conversation didn't last and for work reasons, we couldn't continue it.

I know the stuff in the first 3 chapters of Genesis relating to holy matrimony; what Jesus says in the NT about marriage and divorce; etc. However as posters on this forum know, quoting Church or biblical teachings about holy matrimony (especially monogamy) does little to sway people's thinking or personal opinions. The Old Testament is rife with all the "marriage issues" the Israelites dealt with and all the much multiplying of man throughout time.

To get to my point, how would I even begin to explain to unbelievers or non-practicing Catholics as to why "monogamy" (one woman and one man in this case, not referring to sodomite "couples" or cohabiting "couples") is well, morally superior and better for humanity? What arguments can be made with just natural law? Common sense would show you the complete screwups of western society and the social degradation coming from broken families but...

I mean I am completely disgusted by one man sleeping with multiple women (or far worse, sleeping with men). I can assume the virtuous husband would be completely disgusted if his wife was sleeping with other men (or women). I mean, if you have been married for 30 years to the same man, would you want him sleeping with any other woman than you? Lol

[ChairmanJoeAintMyPrez]

What arguments can be made with just natural law?

If we approach the question by assuming that either (1) the men of the Old Testament were monsters that God showed undue patience, or (2) that God had suspended the moral order of the universe for some greater purpose (i.e. "the ends justify the means"), then we're going to reach the wrong conclusion.  Neither of these premises is possible because both imply a contradiction in God.

Probably easier just to turn to St. Thomas Aquinas:

https://www.newadvent.org/summa/5065.htm

tl;dr:  It's both somewhat contrary and also somewhat not contrary to natural law.

[Mushroom]

Simple answer is jealousy and resentment. I'm sure the women married to one man would be feeling inferior all the time when one of them gets to spend alone time with the man. Also, that one man has to provide for all the children. The story of Jacob's wives (two sisters) who were competing with each other in terms of having more children than the other.  But in that situation, Jacob was tricked into being in that marriage with one of the sisters.


Those women who you talk to are likely contracepting. And one of them saying it would be nice to have "help" to take care of the chores and kids, sorry but taking care of two children is easier than taking care of 8 (big family setting). But, then again, that other woman who your husband would be married to would be having children of her own so would it really be easier?

This is akin to women who are okay with their husbands watching porn. Over time, it'll destroy the relationship for obvious reasons.

[Bonaventure]

What arguments can be made with just natural law?

If we approach the question by assuming that either (1) the men of the Old Testament were monsters that God showed undue patience, or (2) that God had suspended the moral order of the universe for some greater purpose (i.e. "the ends justify the means"), then we're going to reach the wrong conclusion.  Neither of these premises is possible because both imply a contradiction in God.

Probably easier just to turn to St. Thomas Aquinas:

https://www.newadvent.org/summa/5065.htm

tl;dr:  It's both somewhat contrary and also somewhat not contrary to natural law.

An even better question is, why would these people even care whether or not monogamy is in accordance with natural law?

As you've stated:

To get to my point, how would I even begin to explain to unbelievers or non-practicing Catholics as to why "monogamy" (one woman and one man in this case, not referring to sodomite "couples" or cohabiting "couples") is well, morally superior and better for humanity?

I would begin by praying for them and only engaging if they asked questions.

Many modern day clergy do not even believe in the natural law. Based on his actions and words, even the putative "pope" doesn't.

[Francisco Javier]

I mean, polygamy was tolerated out of the hardness of men's hearts (like divorce). The first polygamist is Lamech, who in the same chapter as his polygamy is shown to boast of killing men.

Divorce was tolerated because men are wicked, and if their wife prevented them from getting a new younger one, they'd just murder the old one. Moses tolerated divorce to prevent murder. But Christ clearly tells us that is not how God intended relations between men and women, nor was divorce permitted in the beginning.

Regarding polygamy, we have a situation where after a war, you kill the men and rape/enslave the women. This is tolerated because the alternative is killing everyone. It's funny to see how we're reverting to tolerating that, now that the fruits of the sexual revolution are in full bloom. Of course an old and now unattractive divorcee would say even sharing a man is better than having no man at all. why then didn't she just stick with her first man? It's likewise sad that modern dating observers note that "women would rather share a king than have a peasant all to themselves." This instinct of women, combined with birth control and online dating, has allowed for the top 10% or so of men to monopolize all of women and leave the rest of men with no sexual access. The women enjoy this while they're young and receiving attention from these impressive men, but fall into depression in their 30s once they no longer get the attention of their youth.

But even funnier in this post is the underlying point that women cite their college education to justify sin. Hilarious, and even funnier that they cite AFRICA as a place to emulate. If they wanna live like free love matriarchical africans in mud huds being devoured by lions and famine and 50% child mortality, then they should do that and let the rest of us practice western civilization unimpeded by their idiocy.

And to double down on the retarded college they went to, they might be cited the JEW Margaret Mead's coming of age in Samoa, where she basically just lied and made up a fictitious account of free love in a tropical paradise free from Christian norms. The reality was poverty, sexual violence, and widespread child abuse. Her work was later thoroughly discredited, but all the white college co-eds had the meme implanted in their mind that the only thing between them and an eternal orgy was the white man's needlessly repressive and backwards Christendom. Again, their thesis is based off a lie that was entirely fabricated by a Jew and spread by Jewish professors in the Frankfurt school and popularized by Jewish media

[TradGranny]

For the good of society and subsquent generations, the optimal situation is that as many children as possible are born into a stable marriage relationship between one man and one woman. The role of the husband/ father is to protect and provide for his family. The role of the wife/ mother is to nurture and socialize the children, as well as building community via extended family (birthdays, Holy Days, holidays, other celebrations) and a network of like-minded friends.

This is from the Catholic French philosophers who watched the prototype Communist revolution called the French revolution unfold into hell-on-earth. What the heck just happened? (They asked themselves.

Their answer was to return to God who created the family in the image of the Holy Trinity, with Father, Mother and naturally-born children as the ideal.

[LuxVera]

Thanks everyone for your input.

[The Curt Jester]

Esther was the King's (forgot his name) favorite wife.  He also forgot who she was because he had so many.

[james03]

To get to my point, how would I even begin to explain to unbelievers or non-practicing Catholics as to why "monogamy" (one woman and one man in this case, not referring to sodomite "couples" or cohabiting "couples") is well, morally superior and better for humanity?

As Bonaventure stated, you have bigger fish to fry.  Or it might be an attempt to cast pearls before swine.

To your question, polygamy is one man with multiple women.  Which means most men don't get a woman.  So even a heathen should see the problem for society.  And then there are the cat fights that would ensue:

And when he agreed to her request,  3 She took Agar the Egyptian her handmaid, ten years after they first dwelt in the land of Chanaan, and gave her to her husband to wife.  4 And he went in to her. But she, perceiving that she was with child, despised her mistress.  5 And Sarai said to Abram: Thou dost unjustly with me: I gave my handmaid into thy bosom, and she perceiving herself to be with child, despiseth me. The Lord judge between me and thee.  And Abram made answer, and said to her: Behold thy handmaid is in thy own hand, use her as it pleaseth thee. And when Sarai afflicted her, she ran away.

What a mess.  And I even imagine that some Catholic lasses grin a little (just a little) at the thought of Sarai "afflicting" the homewrecking Agar, the Egyptian hussie.

From a Catholic point of view, marriage is a true union between one man and one women, with sex being the physical manifestation of this.  It is a spiritual thing.  Polygamy is just some sort of societal contract to make kids.  It is generally (always?) seen among the savages in the modern era.