Why "unite the clans" is not possible

MaximGun · September 16, 2021, 07:59:20 AM

Two former Protestants become neo-Conservative Catholic bros (not sure whether they are converts or reverts), start a YouTube channel and tell Taylor Marshall is too rad Trad and too Protestant.

You cannot unite the clans because every clan thinks their view is Catholic and those to the left or right of them are wrong.

Recent protestant reverts telling Lutheran converts (Taylor Marshall) he is "too Protestant" and drawing them back to a Bishop Barron view of the world and the protestantized new liturgy as the correct "Catholic" position.

Are you as confused as I am?

Michael Matt, if you are reading this - do you agree that the clans are not able to be unified by any power in this world because of the essential nature of the problem and the only solution being self-definition and self-direction?

Tolerate the clans, to a point, is an ambitious goal, but perhaps achievable.

andy · September 16, 2021, 08:34:14 AM

TM lost me with the pachamama theft hoax.

andy · September 16, 2021, 08:40:56 AM

btw, TCB quoting bishop Barron is a turn off. Stopped watching them right there.

MaximGun · September 16, 2021, 09:26:53 AM

Quote from: andy on September 16, 2021, 08:34:14 AM
TM lost me with the pachamama theft hoax.

Why was it a hoax?

I thought Marshall essentially agreed with the very tall Austrian dude to grab it from the Church and drop it in the river (or 5 of them). Then he pretended he did not know who the Pacha Pincher was. Is that not about the size of it?

When they did not grind them up burn them, and piss on the ashes, I lost interest. Far too tame for me. Almost ecumenical letting them just float away like that.

Vetus Ordo · September 16, 2021, 09:42:31 AM

You cannot unite the clans because men are by nature divisive, proud and quarrelsome.

The only union that can exist in religion must be given by supernatural means. Those who do not hold fast to the see of Peter, scatter.

Prayerful · September 16, 2021, 10:11:54 AM

Unite the clans has always been cringe. Sedevacantists, for instance, have problems with each others Order, so SSPV rejecting anything Thuc line from CMRI to St Gertrude the Great priests. The SSPX has been riven with breakaways and factions. Joseph Shaw attacking Taylor Marshall in a fairly bitter way seems an example of two men who should be in agreement, although I get why Dr Shaw might find the Youtube Cathgrifter method (wind people up every day) to be irritating. If everyone does their bit, whether as priest preaching the faith, or like Joseph Shaw or Taylor Marshall providing their lay leadership, raising their families too, and not give too much energy to attacking each other, it'll be alright. Getting traditional Catholics working together is herding cats. The best that can be expected is working to a common goal.

MaximGun · September 16, 2021, 10:38:38 AM

I wonder how well the vaccine adoption corresponds to the hard-line orthodoxy of Traditionalists and conservatives.

Anyone have any anecdotal evidence?

If we go to the right of say Taylor Marshall how many people aged under 70 are jabbed?

If we go to the left of Bishop Barron, how many novus ordinarians are jabbed?

MaximGun · September 16, 2021, 10:42:45 AM

This suggests it is pretty high.

https://www.americamagazine.org/faith/2021/04/27/white-catholic-covid-vaccination-rate-prri-poll-240543

ChairmanJoeAintMyPrez · September 16, 2021, 10:50:42 AM

Quote from: MaximGun on September 16, 2021, 10:42:45 AM
This suggests it is pretty high.

https://www.americamagazine.org/faith/2021/04/27/white-catholic-covid-vaccination-rate-prri-poll-240543

The % who accept the jab is roughly the same as the % of those who don't believe in the Real Presence.

I'm guessing this Venn diagram is very nearly a circle.

Frank · September 16, 2021, 11:10:28 AM

Quote from: MaximGun on September 16, 2021, 07:59:20 AM
Two former Protestants become neo-Conservative Catholic bros (not sure whether they are converts or reverts), start a YouTube channel and tell Taylor Marshall is too rad Trad and too Protestant.

You cannot unite the clans because every clan thinks their view is Catholic and those to the left or right of them are wrong.

Recent protestant reverts telling Lutheran converts (Taylor Marshall) he is "too Protestant" and drawing them back to a Bishop Barron view of the world and the protestantized new liturgy as the correct "Catholic" position.

Are you as confused as I am?

Michael Matt, if you are reading this - do you agree that the clans are not able to be unified by any power in this world because of the essential nature of the problem and the only solution being self-definition and self-direction?

Tolerate the clans, to a point, is an ambitious goal, but perhaps achievable.

It's interesting to go to the YouTube version and read the comments.

Christe Eleison · September 16, 2021, 11:12:26 AM

Quote from: MaximGun on September 16, 2021, 07:59:20 AM
Two former Protestants become neo-Conservative Catholic bros (not sure whether they are converts or reverts), start a YouTube channel and tell Taylor Marshall is too rad Trad and too Protestant.

You cannot unite the clans because every clan thinks their view is Catholic and those to the left or right of them are wrong.

Recent protestant reverts telling Lutheran converts (Taylor Marshall) he is "too Protestant" and drawing them back to a Bishop Barron view of the world and the protestantized new liturgy as the correct "Catholic" position.

Are you as confused as I am?

Michael Matt, if you are reading this - do you agree that the clans are not able to be unified by any power in this world because of the essential nature of the problem and the only solution being self-definition and self-direction?

Tolerate the clans, to a point, is an ambitious goal, but perhaps achievable.

Dear MG,

Thanks for the thread, posts, links, etc.

If I remember correctly, Michael Matt, admitted at some point that he
came up with that as a MARKETING PLOY. Since it took off, he kept at it,
then they all jumped in.

They all claim to want to "UNITE THE CLANS". Yet, since they all want to
make money, grow their channels, blogs, etc. They tend to criticize others
even if it is in a subtle way.

I will never forget how Taylor Marshall, was acting like a 2 year old,
when he interviewed a very popular Brazilian you tuber, with a ton of subscribers.

Saying something to the effect, "YOU HAVE SO MANY SUBSCRIBERS,
AND I HAVE NOT BEEN ABLE TO BREAK 100,000, HOW DID YOU DO THAT?"
This was during the PACHAMAMA deal. That gave me a glimpsed
into what he was about. Add the College fiasco, add that he acted like
he did not know about what Alexander (really tall Austrian guy) was
going to do. Why act so surprised at 1:00 AM in the morning to give us
the latest gloom & doom?

Just as a side note, of course the Brazilian you tuber, is going to have a
huge following, their nation like most other Catholic countries, started off as a
Catholic country, not a protestant one. In addition, has TM not noticed the size of
of Brazil, the millions of people. Whether they are hard core Catholics or not,
Catholicism is in their blood. Its in their culture, etc.
Then you add Portugal & other Portuguese speaking countries to the mix.
Of course the Brazilian you tuber is going to have more subscribers,
not only that he seems a bit more honest, and humble....

MaximGun · September 16, 2021, 11:39:09 AM

If that is true then why is Taylor Marshall moving to the right? I'd say he was borderline SSPX now. He probably is actually SSPX in his mind but plays an FSSP card to keep his audience. That would be my guess.

I cannot see going to the right being profitable from a views and Patreon perspective. I am not going to buy the book Infiltration any more than a book on the 1966 World Cup. I already know what happened.

As he moves to the right he is going to encounter a hell of a lot of more hardliner, confident and sceptical people who are not going to be hanging on his every word. SSPXers don't tend to like Johnny come lately celebrity YouTubers.

So I don't think he is driven primarily by audience figures and revenue.

Christe Eleison · September 16, 2021, 11:41:32 AM

1) Michael Matt claimed that he came up with the term=
"UNITE THE CLANS" as a Marketing tool to drum up business

2) Every single one of them is upset or fighting with another you tuber/blogger.
Example: Taylor Marshall vs. Timothy Gordon. Supposedly, after
they did shows together, and they had a falling out,
T. Gordon reached out to TM, but nothing...Not sure what
that was about.

3) If I am not mistaken, I think Michael Matt & Michael Voris do not like each
other, they had to sit apart from each other at an event due to that. Again,
I can't remember the details

4) Church Militant, Michael Voris, Christine Niles, continues to attack
the SSPX every chance they get. And I still can't stomach M. Voris's
past with his "apostolate" Really??? And being around teens....

5) People constantly criticize Michael Matt, because he attends a Diocesan
TLM.
Having said that, this particular TLM has a very holy, devout priest
dedicated to the TLM. And he was one of the few that had parking
lot Masses during lockdown. I think his parking lot Masses, were
the first ones on you tube, then others followed his example.
He seems to be a man's man, very masculine, very orthodox in his views,
someone that Catholic teens could look up to, etc. God Bless him!

So, yeah, I doubt that the CLANS are going to UNITE anytime soon

Christe Eleison · September 16, 2021, 12:09:14 PM

Quote from: MaximGun on September 16, 2021, 11:39:09 AM
If that is true then why is Taylor Marshall moving to the right? I'd say he was borderline SSPX now. He probably is actually SSPX in his mind but plays an FSSP card to keep his audience. That would be my guess.

I cannot see going to the right being profitable from a views and Patreon perspective. I am not going to buy the book Infiltration any more than a book on the 1966 World Cup. I already know what happened.

As he moves to the right he is going to encounter a hell of a lot of more hardliner, confident and sceptical people who are not going to be hanging on his every word. SSPXers don't tend to like Johnny come lately celebrity YouTubers.

So I don't think he is driven primarily by audience figures and revenue.

TM, mentioned in a recent video, that he did not do a podcast on whatever was happening at the moment, because he wanted to poll his viewers on how they felt.
So, basically according to what my viewers believe I will go in that direction....
That does not sound like someone that is firm in his beliefs...

Also, when asked about the Luminous mysteries, he was again, nor here nor there.

"Well, I pray the 3 mysteries, but when I am in a gathering &
they are praying the Luminous, I will pray them as well"

I have more respect for an individual, if such individual takes a stand on
something & sticks with it, even if it is something I might disagree with.
Not, this wishy washy, not sure, I will poll first, to see what my patreon
people want or feel, then I will decide how or what to do my podcast on, really???

So, its like, we will do what is trending, what is popular.

Just be a MAN, take a STAND, STICK with it, even if it is not loved by many!

Oh, and TM attends Mater Dei Parish, an FSSP parish in his area. If he now
sounds more in tune with the SSPX, its due to the fact that he attended
their Masses during lockdown. And I believe that he wants to get that
crowd as well. He already has a ton of the FSSP, Diocesan TLM people on board.

Anyway, maybe I am wrong, may God forgive me if I am

, but I used
to like him a lot, he does have a large family. That is to be admired.
God Bless him for that. But that is not enough.....

When he started out, he seemed a bit more humble, likeable,
a man of faith....

And then I started to feel like he was just doing all of this for the money,
the growth of his channel, etc.

Every time that he interviews someone, and his book, "I" is planted on
their bookshelf, like when he interviewed Alexander (super tall Austrian guy)
That is so obvious, why do that? It is always listed on the screen during
his videos.

His tactics are excellent if this was a secular channel talking about home repairs,
and even then, if I feel that I am being manipulated, the love starts to fade away....

ChairmanJoeAintMyPrez · September 16, 2021, 12:09:49 PM

I couldn't watch more than 6 minutes.

"The Church is [the] object of his fundamentalism."

If we're not fundamentalist about adherence to authentic* magisterial teaching, what are we? The answer isn't "Catholic". This idea of having a personal relationship with Jesus Christ while also somehow rejecting dogma or doctrine is the essence of protestantism.

*Some people will say that determining authenticity is outside the authority of a layman. But the opposite is true. With error and indifference seemingly everywhere in the hierarchy**, it is the grave duty of every layman to determine, to the best of his ability, which teachings are authentic.

**This isn't a new problem. See the protestant revolt or the Arian crisis.

Taylor Marshall is the only Catholic YouTuber I can watch. Admittedly, I crank him up to 1.5x speed and wish he would prepare remarks rather than just rolling with it... I like Anthony Stein a lot, but I'd rather read documents than have him read those documents to me. I like Matt Fradd and the work he's doing to get people off of porn, but I find that when he invites a heretic on his show, he doesn't correct them much. It's polite, but it's a disservice to listeners who don't know better.