REPORTS THAT SUMMORUM PONTIFICUM IS TO BE 'REFORMED'

Started by Vetus Ordo, May 25, 2021, 07:34:22 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

Vetus Ordo

REPORTS THAT SUMMORUM PONTIFICUM IS TO BE 'REFORMED'

In Catholic Arena.

Rorate Caeli has reported this evening that Pope Francis has made comments to Italian bishops to the effect that he has reached the third draft of a document which will 'reform' Pope Benedict XVI's Muto Proprio Summorum Pontificum.

The 2007 document has been a source of vigour in the church since it was signed, as it freed those celebrating the Extraordinary Form of the Mass from the restriction of having to seek permission from a bishop who was likely hostile to the celebration.

Although Traditionalists hope that any 'reform' would not be too bad, many are worried that it would signal a return to pre Summorum days when Modernist bishops were given free reign to alienate people rather than to accommodate them, meet them where they are at, accompany them etc.

In 2018, it was reported that at least 20% of all French ordinations were Traditional priests, with the number set to arrive to the majority by 2030. 

The vibrancy, youth and faith that is brought about by devotion to the Traditional Latin Mass is something that the church is benefitting greatly from today, with its beauty attracting large numbers of young people regularly.

The only consolation is that many parishes already have regular Traditional Latin Masses established and bishops might be reluctant to dispose of them. There have also been previous suggestions that the Latin Mass would be banned, stretching back almost 10 years to the beginning of the Francis papacy, and none of them came to fruition. In fact, Francis reached out to the SSPX during the Year of Mercy and repaired the relationship somewhat before it became colder in recent years in the wake of the Amazonian Synod and other events.

That is not to say that this one will not come to pass, but other mooted suggestions such as the promotion of same sex blessings, married priests and women deacons never came to pass either. As a political entity like others, the Vatican sometimes puts out feelers and waits to see how people react before acting further.

Nonetheless, there is a concerted effort within the church to abolish the muto and to suppress the Traditional Latin Mass and so, caution withstanding, those who support it and adore it should continue to advocate for its presence within the church and for their right to access it.
DISPOSE OUR DAYS IN THY PEACE, AND COMMAND US TO BE DELIVERED FROM ETERNAL DAMNATION, AND TO BE NUMBERED IN THE FLOCK OF THINE ELECT.

DigitalLogos

Good news. Maybe it will help many well-intentioned Catholics step away from the Novus Ordo.
"The Heart of Jesus is closer to you when you suffer, than when you are full of joy." - St. Margaret Mary Alacoque

Put not your trust in princes: In the children of men, in whom there is no salvation. - Ps. 145:2-3

"For there shall be a time, when they will not endure sound doctrine; but, according to their own desires, they will heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears: And will indeed turn away their hearing from the truth, but will be turned unto fables." - 2 Timothy 4:3-4

Michael Wilson

They were set up to bring the SSPX back into the fold, and then to quietly fade away, as their congregations aged and died out.
Neither has happened, so Francis will try to squash them.
"The World Must Conform to Our Lord and not He to it." Rev. Dennis Fahey CSSP

"My brothers, all of you, if you are condemned to see the triumph of evil, never applaud it. Never say to evil: you are good; to decadence: you are progess; to death: you are life. Sanctify yourselves in the times wherein God has placed you; bewail the evils and the disorders which God tolerates; oppose them with the energy of your works and your efforts, your life uncontaminated by error, free from being led astray, in such a way that having lived here below, united with the Spirit of the Lord, you will be admitted to be made but one with Him forever and ever: But he who is joined to the Lord is one in spirit." Cardinal Pie of Potiers

MaximGun

I am only going to the SSPX now.   They were the only place that ignored the mask wearing and social distancing bullshit.

I tried the diocesan TLMs but the lady Covid marshalls and the priest sterilizing his hands between every communion just made me feel I was in communion with idiots.  I like sitting next to sane people who can judge a tree (or a virus) by its fruits.

So it is the SSPX for me for the forseeable future.

Richard Malcolm

Rorate has an update this morning:

QuoteUpdate (May 26): Rorate's additional sources in Rome have confirmed this Wednesday that Francis has indeed a text on Summorum Pontificum lined up, which has been developed for months, but what is not known at this point is if the text is just about a more limited take on the Summorum application questionnaire (first revealed by us in the spring of 2020) or about an overhaul of Summorum Pontificum in general: drafts could be dealing with both matters. It is also not impossible for a text to come out of calculated ambiguity, in the general denial/non-denial terms favored by this pontificate.

I tend to think that Messa in Latino's and Rorate's sources are onto something, so I am left to hope that it is just "a more limited take on the Summorum application questionnaire."

There are trads who have been critical of Summorum, and not just those attached to the Society. I'm not without my own concerns: It did no go far enough. But it is worth considering the fruits that have come of it, such as it is, over the past 14 years, especially in the United States: In 2007, there were less than 200 regular TLM's. Today, there are nearly 700. From a handful of canonical traditional parishes, oratories, and priories (typically administered by the FSSP, ICRSS, CSJC, IBP, CRNJ, etc.), there are now about 80. (Yes, I track these numbers.) It is not just the many laity who have been able to encounter tradition but also the thousands of Latin Rite priests who have been abl to embrace their own tradition -- few of which would have been possible without the motu proprio. Diocesan TLM's can be a mixed bag (as we all know), but I know a number of diocesan priests who have had their priesthoods transformed by the ability to celebrate the traditional rites and say the traditional office.

None of this would have been possible with the witness of Archbishop Lefebvre and the Society he founded, of course. The central right affirmed by Summorum Pontificum was that pleaded by Lefebvre in his 1976 meeting with Pope Paul VI. "I have a request for you. Would it not be possible to order bishops to grant in churches a chapel where people can come pray as before the Council? Today, everyone is allowed everything; why not allow us something, too?"

It's telling that Francis is alleged to have made his remarks to a meeting of Italian bishops. It has been that national episcopate which has been most zealous to suppress the Traditional Mass, and there have been multiple entreaties from its bishops in this pontificate, both public and private. As it is, the Traditional Mass has actually shrunk in Italy, as bishops have placed numerous obstacles in the way of laity and priests who wish to celebrate it. And alas, Italy has far fewer SSPX chapels for the faithful to fall back on than is the case in the United States.

Richard Malcolm

Quote from: Michael Wilson on May 25, 2021, 07:54:35 PM
They were set up to bring the SSPX back into the fold, and then to quietly fade away, as their congregations aged and died out.
Neither has happened, so Francis will try to squash them.

Well, someone's congregations have been aging and dying out...

In Belgium, you could fit the entire Sunday Mass attendance of the country into two premier league football stadiums, with seats left over-- that was BEFORE Covid. I wonder if it could fill even one now?

So, as European bishops witness their flocks shrink to microscopic levels, they find time and energy to try to squash almost the only part of the Church showing any signs of growth and vibrancy.

james03

QuoteThe vibrancy, youth and faith that is brought about by devotion to the Traditional Latin Mass is something that the church is benefitting greatly from today, with its beauty attracting large numbers of young people regularly.

This is why it must be destroyed.  Sodomite, coke snorting, demon possessed prelates seethe with rage against the TLM because they are Christ haters.  They absolutely know the N.O. mass is B.S.  That's a feature, not a bug.  The existence of the TLM is counter-narrative and must be destroyed.  Our modern epoch has one common theme -- hatred of Christ.

Lower down are the straight boomers with a branded conscious.  They want the TLM to go away because it proclaims how wrong and destructive they were.  The existence of the TLM shows that they were complete idiots.
"But he that doth not believe, is already judged: because he believeth not in the name of the only begotten Son of God (Jn 3:18)."

"All sorrow leads to the foot of the Cross.  Weep for your sins."

"Although He should kill me, I will trust in Him"

Richard Malcolm

Quote from: james03 on May 26, 2021, 08:07:26 AM
QuoteThe vibrancy, youth and faith that is brought about by devotion to the Traditional Latin Mass is something that the church is benefitting greatly from today, with its beauty attracting large numbers of young people regularly.

Lower down are the straight boomers with a branded conscious.  They want the TLM to go away because it proclaims how wrong and destructive they were.  The existence of the TLM shows that they were complete idiots.

One qualification about the Boomers: While it *is* true that today they are, overwhelmingly, the generational cohort most resistant to the TLM, it has to be conceded that they were not the ones responsible for inflicting the "reforms" on the Church in the 1960's. They were all too young for that -- the first Boomer priests were not even ordained until 1972. Ironically, it is the Greatest Generation that has the bulk of the responsibility, and they who must face the sternest judgment (Kyrie eleison).

The Boomers, alas, bought into it as they came of age -- a few courageous and insightful exceptions to the contrary notwithstanding.

clau clau

#8
So that would be "The reform of the reform of the reform".  It's making me dizzy!



Father time has an undefeated record.

But when he's dumb and no more here,
Nineteen hundred years or near,
Clau-Clau-Claudius shall speak clear.
(https://completeandunabridged.blogspot.com/2009/06/i-claudius.html)

james03

QuoteOne qualification about the Boomers:
Agreed.  I've been good friends with Vietnam vet boomers who were great men.  But I'm talking about generalities, which covers the bulk majority of each cohort:

"Greatest Generation".  Responsible for Vat. II and a lot of ills.  Usually the parents of Boomers.
"Silent Generation".  Basically Korean war vets.  Main force behind the initial Trad movement.  Usually parents of Gen X.
"Boomers".  Woodstock, sex, drugs, and rock and roll.  Conspicuously absent from TLMs.  Bulk of N.O. Catholics attendees.  Usually parents of millenials.
"Gen X".  Best Generation EVAH!.  Took what the Silent Generation started and established the Trad movement.  Bulk of TLM attendees.  Usually parents of Gen Y.  Trad Gen X had a lot of Trad kids.
"Millennials".  Wasted crop.  Generation daycare.  Whiners, marxists, feminists, and soy boys.  Don't attend any Mass.
"Gen Y".  Coming of age.  Already getting married and having babies.  Also TLM attendees.  The liberal branch doesn't attend any Mass.

And yes, I know on this forum we have good Trads from Boomers and Millennials, and we have gay Gen-X priests in the N.O. Mass.  This is a general description.

Basically after the boomers die, the N.O. Mass will go away.  That was the plan, but the TLM will preserve the Mass, which enrages the Christ haters.
"But he that doth not believe, is already judged: because he believeth not in the name of the only begotten Son of God (Jn 3:18)."

"All sorrow leads to the foot of the Cross.  Weep for your sins."

"Although He should kill me, I will trust in Him"

Richard Malcolm

Quote from: james03 on May 26, 2021, 09:37:30 AM
QuoteOne qualification about the Boomers:
Agreed.  I've been good friends with Vietnam vet boomers who were great men.  But I'm talking about generalities, which covers the bulk majority of each cohort:

Oh, I get it.

I just like to remember who was *responsible* for the disaster, every time I get my dander up at Boomers. They're perpetuating it, but they didn't start it.

Quote"Millennials".  Wasted crop.  Generation daycare.  Whiners, marxists, feminists, and soy boys.  Don't attend any Mass.
"Gen Y".  Coming of age.  Already getting married and having babies.  Also TLM attendees.  The liberal branch doesn't attend any Mass.

I do think there is some regional and local variation. Here in the Washington DC/Baltimore area, we have a lot of TLM's. The older TLM congregations from the "Indult Era" do skew a little older, with a fair number of Gen X and even Boomer attendees...but in my experience, almost all the rest are dominated by big Millennial families. (I have not been to the new SSPX chapel, but I hear they have a lot, too.) At my diocesan TLM, in fact, it's virtually *all* Millennial parents, with lots of young children. I would say our average age is . . . 16?

The American Millennial generation is, overall, a cultural trainwreck, no question about it. But the few who have become serious Catholics have rapidly become the heart of a lot of TLM congregations around the country, from everything I have seen and heard. There are vast swarms of them at the new Institute of Christ the King oratories in Pittsburgh, Detroit, and Columbus, for example.... Which is good, because these are the Catholics who are in prime child-rearing years, and we need 'em. (I am Gen X, too, for the record.)

QuoteBasically after the boomers die, the N.O. Mass will go away.  That was the plan, but the TLM will preserve the Mass, which enrages the Christ haters.

In America, it won't *die*, but it will be a lot smaller. It will be worse in a lot of the Northeast and Midwest, where parishes are more dominated by Boomers and Silent Gen now. I'll be shocked if by 2030 we have 10,000 parishes left in the United States.

Now, in parts of Europe, there will be very, very little left. The reason why traditionalist priests are on track to become a majority of all clergy in France by 2036 is that virtuallly all diocesan priests will be dead by that point, and they're ordaining almost no new ones now. In fact, in a typical year, at least 50 French dioceses ordain *no one*. The New Springtime in action!

Richard Malcolm

The French traditionalist outlet Pais Liturgique has an analysis piece up about this now. A machine translation:

QuoteFor some time now, the warning signs about Summorum Pontificum have multiplied: the majority of Italian bishops and the heavyweights of the Curia, in particular at the Secretariat of State, have convinced the Pope that the liturgical traditionalization of the young clergy was "Worrying" and that the "right to the traditional mass", instituted by the motu proprio of Benedict XVI, was an attack on Vatican II.

On Pentecost Monday, opening in Rome the meeting of the Conference of Italian Bishops, the CEI, the Pope first "washed the heads" of the Italian bishops, who are dragging their feet to put the Italian Church in a generalized state of synod because they consider it an expensive idea and totally unnecessary. Old man's mania, some even say.

Then, once the journalists had left the debating hall, the Pope addressed a theme that unites many bishops on the Peninsula: the execration of Summorum Pontificum. Francis confirmed the upcoming publication of a document that he was urged to write, intended to "reinterpret" the motu proprio of Benedict XVI. The publication was indeed delayed, because the document seems to have provoked objections and brakes, especially on the part of Cardinal Ladaria and the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, who argued that it would provoke worldwide unrest of uncontrollable oppositions. Despite everything, the Secretariat of State would push for the publication of the text, the essential provisions of which would be as follows:

– communities [e.g., FSSP, ICRSS, IBP, etc.] celebrating in the ancient form could continue to do so;

– on the other hand, diocesan priests should now obtain specific permission.

It is obvious that this document, inapplicable in many countries including France, will have above all a symbolic significance: to make the celebration of the traditional Mass no longer a right, but a tolerated exception.

The traditional anti-mass pressure group, at Saint-Anselme University, at the Curia and at the CEI, thus leads the Pope towards a major political error: the latent discontent of a whole section of Catholics in the face of doctrinal approximations, weaknesses in the face of German excesses, the multiplication of disconcerting statements to say the least, risks turning into a real "fed up". Instead of striving to feel what a very living part of the Christian people thinks and aspires to, they would be driven to despair and exasperation.

The peace of the Church, especially the liturgical peace, to which Benedict XVI had contributed a lot with his wise liberating text, is deliberately torn: a return to the worst years of the post-Council period is coming.

Link: http://www.paixliturgique.com/aff_lettre.asp?LET_N_ID=3130

If indeed this is what the new decree will do, it will be just what the doctor ordered for modernist bishops in Italy (the ones agitating for this), for multiple reasons:

1) The Italian bishops have almost completely succeeded in keeping Ecclesia Dei priestly societies and orders out of their dioceses to begin with.
2) The Italian bishops have almost completely succeeded in making life intolerable for diocesan priests trying to celebrate the TLM. Now they can make it *impossible*.
3) Finally, there are very few SSPX or independent chapels in Italy for the faithful to fall back on.

Jacob

James, just curious, how do you separate Millennials and Gen Y?  It's my understanding of the terminology that Millennials are Gen Y, one name simply superseding the other.
"Arguing with anonymous strangers on the Internet is a sucker's game because they almost always turn out to be—or to be indistinguishable from—self-righteous sixteen-year-olds possessing infinite amounts of free time."
--Neal Stephenson

Jayne

While this "reform" may work against traditional Catholicism in places where there is little SSPX presence, I expect it to drive trads to the Society in those places it is an option.  In my area, there was already a tendency like this, due to SSPX responses to Covid being more palatable than those of the diocesan TLMs.  A message from Francis that comes across as "we don't want trads here" will further push the trend.

I appreciated Richard Malcolm's insights on the demographics.  They were very encouraging.
Jesus, meek and humble of heart, make my heart like unto Thine.

Richard Malcolm

Quote from: Jacob on May 26, 2021, 10:51:49 AM
James, just curious, how do you separate Millennials and Gen Y?  It's my understanding of the terminology that Millennials are Gen Y, one name simply superseding the other.

The usual cutoffs (I am using Pew Research here) seem to be:

1946-1964: Baby Boomer
1965-1980: Generation X
1981-1996: Millennial (Generation Y)
1997-2012: Generation Z

I have seen variations in definition - 1983 as the cutoff between Gen X and Millennials, and 2000 as the cutoff between Millennials and Gen Z - but otherwise, that's what we are looking at.

So, anyone in your parish beween ages 24 and 40, roughly, is a Millennial. The oldest Gen Z'ers are basically in college now.