Theory about The Crisis and the chaos

[Innocent Smith]

Is Lucy short for Lucifer?

[mikemac]

Ask your priest.  I dare you.

[awkwardcustomer]

People are so erroneously hopped up on Fatima .....

How did this happen?  How did Sr Lucy manage to fool half the world, as her own mother feared she would?

I don't think people are hopped up on Fatima nearly as much as you characters think.  It's just sickening watching you guys attack the Blessed Virgin every time Fatima is mentioned.

Show where anyone here has attacked the Blessed Virgin, or retract that false accusation.

Your insults are sickening.

[mikemac]

You guys are the ones that need to retract your false accusations against the Blessed Virgin.

You should talk to your priest about your concerns too.

[Matto]

Have you ever talked to a priest about your delusions Gerard?

Delusions? Just because he does not agree with your strange (and uncommon) beliefs about Fatima? Um outside of this echo chamber, most people think you are delusional for believing in Fatima at all. And among Catholics, most who have ever heard about Fatima think you are delusional for rejecting John Paul II's consecration and going on and on about the consecration needing to be done, since Sister Lucy herself is on record saying that heaven accepted John Paul II's consecration. And I can't even imagine what they would think about the two sister Lucy theory. So don't call each other crazy or delusional, because to people outside of this echo chamber you look like a schizophrenic husband arguing with his bipolar wife over which one of them is more crazy.

[awkwardcustomer]

You guys are the ones that need to retract your false accusations against the Blessed Virgin.

You should talk to your priest about your concerns too.

Which false accusations?

Are you capable of giving an answer?

[Gerard]

Have you ever talked to a priest about your delusions Gerard?

I not the party that has delusions about this.  I'm the one looking at this phenomenon objectively. 

It would be interesting if you could actually make an argument disputing what I've pointed out, but you're not capable of getting past your infantile emotions over it.

So you haven't.  You should.

When an opportune moment comes along, I will. 

And when I say, "I don't believe in Fatima."  What is he going to reply?  Is he going to say I'm obligated to believe in it?   Is he going to say I can't have a reason or reasons to disbelieve it? 

[Gerard]

People are so erroneously hopped up on Fatima .....

How did this happen?  How did Sr Lucy manage to fool half the world, as her own mother feared she would?

God only knows, but you could make a guess as to the connection with Pope Leo's vision. 

If Leo XIII's vision is true, the Devil was given 100 years, permission and power to try to bring down the Church. 

Leo's vision never states when that 100 year period would start. 

1917 to 2017 is as good as any time frame,  the power to work the "miracle of the sun" and the permission to tempt the Church and the Pope with a false apparition of the BVM all fit the bill. 

The term "diabolical disorientation" was floated right in front of everyone's noses.  It wouldn't be beyond the devil to taunt people with misdirection. 

Also, if you take Fatima as the fulfillment of Leo's vision, it's far more harmonious in terms of reconciling the two.  Some people try to reconcile them both as authentic, but they run into the problem of God saying He's given the Devil, time and permission and power but then double crosses the Devil by sending the BVM to interfere with Fatima. As if the Devil was going to be able to take down the Church and God puts his thumb on the scale. 

Other people simply choose to ignore Leo's vision rather than try to reconcile them or disbelieve Fatima. 

And of course Catholics aren't obliged to believe in Leo's vision or Fatima or any other apparition. 

It's an interesting thought experiment to apply Leo's vision to Fatima but even if Leo's vision is not authentic, Fatima still has its fatal flaws baked into its substance. 

[awkwardcustomer]

People are so erroneously hopped up on Fatima .....

How did this happen?  How did Sr Lucy manage to fool half the world, as her own mother feared she would?

God only knows, but you could make a guess as to the connection with Pope Leo's vision. 

If Leo XIII's vision is true, the Devil was given 100 years, permission and power to try to bring down the Church. 

Leo's vision never states when that 100 year period would start. 

1917 to 2017 is as good as any time frame,  the power to work the "miracle of the sun" and the permission to tempt the Church and the Pope with a false apparition of the BVM all fit the bill. 

The term "diabolical disorientation" was floated right in front of everyone's noses.  It wouldn't be beyond the devil to taunt people with misdirection. 

Also, if you take Fatima as the fulfillment of Leo's vision, it's far more harmonious in terms of reconciling the two.  Some people try to make reconcile them as both authentic, but they run into the problem of God saying He's given the Devil, time and permission and power but then double crosses the Devil by sending the BVM to interfere with Fatima. As if the Devil was going to be able to take down the Church and God puts his thumb on the scale. 

Other people simply choose to ignore Leo's vision rather than try to reconcile them or disbelieve Fatima. 

And of course Catholics aren't obliged to believe in Leo's vision or Fatima or any other apparition. 

It's an interesting thought experiment to apply Leo's vision to Fatima but even if Leo's vision is not authentic, Fatima still has its fatal flaws baked into its substance.

The connection you make between the Fatima apparition and the vision of Pope Leo XIII is potentially explosive.  What? God gave Satan a hundred years to destroy the Church and Fatima is part of Satan's plan!

Funnily enough, it also occured to me that the term 'diabolical disorientation' might be a taunt.  Typical psychopathic behaviour includes mocking those who believe their lies.  Again, a potentially devastating claim.

There's no doubt in my mind that Sr Lucy's dissembling and manipulative behaviour alone renders Fatima unbelievable.  Sr Lucy herself states in her third and fourth memoirs that the 'Holy Spirit' inspired her to withold vital information from the Canonical Enquiry when she was, in fact, under oath. 

Do Fatimists really believe that the Holy Spirit inspired Sr Lucy to lie to the Church?  Or has the Fatima narrative been spun in such a way as to obscure such awkward information?  Why do Fatimists insist that Sr Lucy prophesied the 'light in the sky' and the outbreak of WW2, when she didn't reveal the prophesies until 1941, after the prophesied events has taken place?

The process by which the Fatima narrative gained such a hold on Catholics, particularly Trad, is something of a mystery.  The whole thing resembles a carefully crafted demonic psy-op.  If the very best human propagandists in the world had been given such a mission, I doubt they could have pulled it off. 

[Quaremerepulisti]

The Fatima narrative is crumbling...

Its supporters are reduced to accusing the doubters of making "false accusations against the Blessed Virgin".  But the doubting argument is, IF Fatima is true, THEN the Blessed Virgin did X.  X is bad.  Therefore, the Blessed Virgin did not do X; ergo, Fatima is false.

BTW, I don't believe in the 100-year vision of Leo XIII either.  It has Jesus Christ more concerned with settling a score with and proving a point to Satan than the good of His Church and of souls, and appearing to care about a Satanic boast.  And again, revisionism must be used (just like with Fatima) to try and reconcile it with the known facts.  The 100-year time IS UP, and yet we don't see in fact any diminution whatsoever in Satanic attacks on the Church; they are in fact increasing.  So, well, erm, maybe the 100 years didn't actually begin at the time of the vision.  Yeah, right.

[Innocent Smith]

The Fatima narrative is crumbling...

Its supporters are reduced to accusing the doubters of making "false accusations against the Blessed Virgin".  But the doubting argument is, IF Fatima is true, THEN the Blessed Virgin did X.  X is bad.  Therefore, the Blessed Virgin did not do X; ergo, Fatima is false.

BTW, I don't believe in the 100-year vision of Leo XIII either.  It has Jesus Christ more concerned with settling a score with and proving a point to Satan than the good of His Church and of souls, and appearing to care about a Satanic boast.  And again, revisionism must be used (just like with Fatima) to try and reconcile it with the known facts.  The 100-year time IS UP, and yet we don't see in fact any diminution whatsoever in Satanic attacks on the Church; they are in fact increasing.  So, well, erm, maybe the 100 years didn't actually begin at the time of the vision.  Yeah, right.

I don't believe in Cavalier Jesus either.

[St.Justin]

Have no doubt that the Fatima apparitions were real and true. Also have no doubt that the Devils is always busy after every true apparition trying to make the real apparitions appear false and to lead people astray. This has been the case of after every approved apparition even to the point of following the approved ones with false ones. Seems some need to read up on apparitions in general. Proof texting is not how you resolve this issue.

[awkwardcustomer]

Seems some need to read up on apparitions in general. Proof texting is not how you resolve this issue.

Proof texting you say. Have you read Sr Lucy's Memoirs?  Has anyone?

But reading up on apparitions in general is a good idea. Perhaps we will find another visionary who was inspired by the Holy Spirit to lie to the Church.

[St.Justin]

Seems some need to read up on apparitions in general. Proof texting is not how you resolve this issue.

Proof texting you say. Have you read Sr Lucy's Memoirs?  Has anyone?

But reading up on apparitions in general is a good idea. Perhaps we will find another visionary who was inspired by the Holy Spirit to lie to the Church.

Perhaps this was just a demonic follow on to the true apparition?

Look closely at the dates:
Sister Lúcia wrote six memoirs during her lifetime. The first four were written between 1935 and 1941, and the English translation is published under the name Fatima in Lucia's Own Words. The fifth and six memoirs, written in 1989 and 1993, are published in English under the name Fatima in Lucia's Own Words II. These latter books were written in her own handwriting.

An additional book was published in 2001, variously known as Calls from the Message of Fatima and Appeals from the Message of Fatima, as announced by the Vatican on December 5, 2001.[24]

Sister Lúcia also wrote numerous letters to clergy and devout laypeople who were curious about the Third Secret of Fátima and about Lúcia's interpretation of what she had heard Virgin Mary request.[note 5] Two letters she supposedly wrote concerned the Consecration of Russia, in which she said Our Lady's request had been fulfilled. These letters turned out to be false, primarily from the fact that the letters were typeset, and Sister Lucy always wrote on handwriting, and because it was inconsistent with her constant plea that the consecration of Russia was not done as Our Lady requested[25]. [26] Any and all material written by Sister Lúcia is now held for study by the Congregation for the Causes of Saints.[27]

[mikemac]

Have you ever talked to a priest about your delusions Gerard?

I not the party that has delusions about this.  I'm the one looking at this phenomenon objectively. 

It would be interesting if you could actually make an argument disputing what I've pointed out, but you're not capable of getting past your infantile emotions over it.

So you haven't.  You should.

When an opportune moment comes along, I will. 

And when I say, "I don't believe in Fatima."  What is he going to reply?  Is he going to say I'm obligated to believe in it?   Is he going to say I can't have a reason or reasons to disbelieve it?

You mean to tell me that after all this time, what has it been, over a year or so that you have been calling Fatima demonic that you have not talked to a priest about it?  No opportune moment in the past year or so?

If and when you talk to a priest about it you should at least be honest with him.  If all you say to the priest is "I don't believe in Fatima" then that is not being honest.  Obviously if that is all you say to the priest he will tell you that you don't have an obligation to believe in Fatima.  If you are going to be truthful with the priest then you need to tell him everything that you have posted in here about Fatima over the past year or so.  You need to tell him that you believe that Fatima is false, that you believe Sister Lucy was a liar, that you believe the miracle of the sun in 1917 was from the devil, that you believe Our Lady of Fatima is from the devil, that you believe all the Popes and the Church have been duped by the Fatima story for just about a century, that you believe the request of Our Lady of Fatima to consecrate Russia undermines the papacy and that you have been posting all of the above in an online Catholic forum for a year or so.  Be a man Gerard, tell your whole story to a priest.  I mean if you have the guts to.  Let us know what your priest has to say about it.

I'd suggest that your few cohorts that have posted on this page do the same.