The Splinters of Trad Groups Thread

[St.Justin]

Are they in full communion with Rome and approved by their Bishop?

I buy my scapulars from them

Nope and nope.

Interesting, what makes you so sure of this? What have they done to not be in union with Rome?

I have a better question. Where are their Holy Orders coming from these days? I've known about these guys for a while, and can't find that answer to this day.

Ordination is not a private Sacrament. It is a public one for the good of the Church. The Ordination record should be public knowledge.

[Sophia3]

Are they in full communion with Rome and approved by their Bishop?

I buy my scapulars from them

Nope and nope.

Interesting, what makes you so sure of this? What have they done to not be in union with Rome?

I have a better question. Where are their Holy Orders coming from these days? I've known about these guys for a while, and can't find that answer to this day.

I do not remember the name of the bishop who ordained the priests, but it was legit and has been made public. They would tell you if you asked.

If found this about Father Ward's ordination on the web: Fr. Anthony D. Ward, was ordained by Archbishop Lefebvre on April 14, 1973 and was incardinated to a diocese in northern Spain and subsequently given permission by the-then local bishop to travel abroad since Spanish was not his native language.

[mikemac]

After reading this thread I am going to have to ask the two priests that offer the TLM in this area whether they still consider themselves FSSP priests or not.  I know both were ordained priests at Our Lady of Guadalupe Seminary in Denton, Nebraska.  And I know one is incardinated to a diocese in Scranton, Pennsylvania, where the FSSP has St. Michael's.  I was to a High Mass in Campbellford a while back where a newly ordained priest from the FSSP Seminary in Denton, Nebraska offered his first Mass outside the Seminary.  I know diocesan bishops are requesting FSSP priests.  I know priests have to swear an oath of obedience to their bishops.  So what happens when an FSSP priest is given his own parish?  That FSSP priest cannot just come to that parish and change from the NO to the TLM immediately.  You know what I'm saying?  There are no other priests in their respective parishes to continue to say the NO.  So these two priests have no choice if they want to offer the TLM in the area; to uphold their oath to their ordinary they also have to offer the NO.  Also the bishop did not allow the TLM to be offered every Sunday to start with.  First it was just one Sunday a month for a couple of years, then two Sundays a month for a couple more years and now for the past two years we have the TLM every Sunday.  Maybe these two priests don't consider themselves FSSP priests anymore, but there is clearly still an affiliation, otherwise the one priest wouldn't be incardinated to a diocese in Scranton or the newly ordained priest from the FSSP Seminary in Denton wouldn't have offered his first public Mass at our parish in Campbellford.  I will definitely ask.  But it won't matter to me one way or another, because I am very grateful for these two priests.  We would not have the TLM in our area without them.

Last Friday night after Adoration here in Hastings I stayed for the NO Mass.  The priest says the NO ad orientem, a brother read the Epistle, the priest always has a good Sermon, they haven't been saying "for all" in the NO for years now, the faithful don't turn around to shake hands or say peace be with you, the faithful sing the Agnus Dei in Latin, there are definitely no extra ordinary Eucharistic ministers, the faithful kneel at the rail to receive the Holy Eucharist, most of them on the tongue and we finished by saying the Leonine prayers.  Clearly not your run of the mill NO Mass.  All these changes came one by one.  These two priests know what they are doing.  Little by little.  Since he has been at Our Lady of Mount Carmel this same priest has moved the Tabernacle back to the middle (that was the first thing he did), installed the kneeling rail, two side altars and a traditional confessional.  Same goes for the Visitation Of The Blessed Virgin Mary parish in Campbellford; changes there include a beautiful high altar, two side altars and a traditional confessional; it already had the kneeling rail.  Like I say, it doesn't matter to me whether these two priests still consider themselves to be FSSP priests or not.  I can't describe how grateful I am for both of them.

[St.Justin]

Are they in full communion with Rome and approved by their Bishop?

I buy my scapulars from them

Nope and nope.

Interesting, what makes you so sure of this? What have they done to not be in union with Rome?

I have a better question. Where are their Holy Orders coming from these days? I've known about these guys for a while, and can't find that answer to this day.

I do not remember the name of the bishop who ordained the priests, but it was legit and has been made public. They would tell you if you asked.

If found this about Father Ward's ordination on the web: Fr. Anthony D. Ward, was ordained by Archbishop Lefebvre on April 14, 1973 and was incardinated to a diocese in northern Spain and subsequently given permission by the-then local bishop to travel abroad since Spanish was not his native language.

Not questioning Father Wards Ordination just the rest of them? Everything I can find says they will not devulge the Bishops name because they don't want to and the Bishops doesn't want anyone to know who he is. There is something not kosher about that.

[Sophia3]

Are they in full communion with Rome and approved by their Bishop?

I buy my scapulars from them

Nope and nope.

Interesting, what makes you so sure of this? What have they done to not be in union with Rome?

I have a better question. Where are their Holy Orders coming from these days? I've known about these guys for a while, and can't find that answer to this day.

I do not remember the name of the bishop who ordained the priests, but it was legit and has been made public. They would tell you if you asked.

If found this about Father Ward's ordination on the web: Fr. Anthony D. Ward, was ordained by Archbishop Lefebvre on April 14, 1973 and was incardinated to a diocese in northern Spain and subsequently given permission by the-then local bishop to travel abroad since Spanish was not his native language.

Not questioning Father Wards Ordination just the rest of them? Everything I can find says they will not devulge the Bishops name because they don't want to and the Bishops doesn't want anyone to know who he is. There is something not kosher about that.

I have personally heard the name before and it has been put out there--nothing not kosher about it---they had a good reason for not publishing the name to the world. Rome has the name and all is well.

I'm sure it's not too hard in this day and age in the Church to imagine that there could be a reason for it. If you knew their story I think you would understand.

It still baffles me how they are not at least given the benefit of the doubt until people find out for sure.

[tradne4163]

Are they in full communion with Rome and approved by their Bishop?

I buy my scapulars from them

Nope and nope.

Interesting, what makes you so sure of this? What have they done to not be in union with Rome?

I have a better question. Where are their Holy Orders coming from these days? I've known about these guys for a while, and can't find that answer to this day.

I do not remember the name of the bishop who ordained the priests, but it was legit and has been made public. They would tell you if you asked.

If found this about Father Ward's ordination on the web: Fr. Anthony D. Ward, was ordained by Archbishop Lefebvre on April 14, 1973 and was incardinated to a diocese in northern Spain and subsequently given permission by the-then local bishop to travel abroad since Spanish was not his native language.

Not questioning Father Wards Ordination just the rest of them? Everything I can find says they will not devulge the Bishops name because they don't want to and the Bishops doesn't want anyone to know who he is. There is something not kosher about that.

I have personally heard the name before and it has been put out there--nothing not kosher about it---they had a good reason for not publishing the name to the world. Rome has the name and all is well.

I'm sure it's not too hard in this day and age in the Church to imagine that there could be a reason for it. If you knew their story I think you would understand.

It still baffles me how they are not at least given the benefit of the doubt until people find out for sure.

It's rather moot for me at this point, but it has always struck me as odd. I've never heard of that even under Francis's reign, and these guys likely hid it even under the relatively friendly reign of Benedict XVI. Mind you, Archbishop Lefebvre never hid it when he ordained priests. Nor did any other traditional Catholic bishops that I am aware of. It really looks off that this place give no info at all about ordinations to the public, especially given the common concerns traditional Catholic laity have over validity of Holy Orders. It may seem justified to them (and even could be given the current situation in Rome), though it looks suspicious.

Admittedly, I only know a little bit about them, so I won't condemn them wholeheartedly. As I pointed out above, I don't have a dog in that particular fight anymore.

[St.Justin]

Are they in full communion with Rome and approved by their Bishop?

I buy my scapulars from them

Nope and nope.

Interesting, what makes you so sure of this? What have they done to not be in union with Rome?

I have a better question. Where are their Holy Orders coming from these days? I've known about these guys for a while, and can't find that answer to this day.

I do not remember the name of the bishop who ordained the priests, but it was legit and has been made public. They would tell you if you asked.

If found this about Father Ward's ordination on the web: Fr. Anthony D. Ward, was ordained by Archbishop Lefebvre on April 14, 1973 and was incardinated to a diocese in northern Spain and subsequently given permission by the-then local bishop to travel abroad since Spanish was not his native language.

Not questioning Father Wards Ordination just the rest of them? Everything I can find says they will not devulge the Bishops name because they don't want to and the Bishops doesn't want anyone to know who he is. There is something not kosher about that.

I have personally heard the name before and it has been put out there--nothing not kosher about it---they had a good reason for not publishing the name to the world. Rome has the name and all is well.

I'm sure it's not too hard in this day and age in the Church to imagine that there could be a reason for it. If you knew their story I think you would understand.

It still baffles me how they are not at least given the benefit of the doubt until people find out for sure.

It is not normal to give benefit of the doubt when it comes to validity of Ordinations. This is not normal behavior.

[Sophia3]

Are they in full communion with Rome and approved by their Bishop?

I buy my scapulars from them

Nope and nope.

Interesting, what makes you so sure of this? What have they done to not be in union with Rome?

I have a better question. Where are their Holy Orders coming from these days? I've known about these guys for a while, and can't find that answer to this day.

I do not remember the name of the bishop who ordained the priests, but it was legit and has been made public. They would tell you if you asked.

If found this about Father Ward's ordination on the web: Fr. Anthony D. Ward, was ordained by Archbishop Lefebvre on April 14, 1973 and was incardinated to a diocese in northern Spain and subsequently given permission by the-then local bishop to travel abroad since Spanish was not his native language.

Not questioning Father Wards Ordination just the rest of them? Everything I can find says they will not devulge the Bishops name because they don't want to and the Bishops doesn't want anyone to know who he is. There is something not kosher about that.

I have personally heard the name before and it has been put out there--nothing not kosher about it---they had a good reason for not publishing the name to the world. Rome has the name and all is well.

I'm sure it's not too hard in this day and age in the Church to imagine that there could be a reason for it. If you knew their story I think you would understand.

It still baffles me how they are not at least given the benefit of the doubt until people find out for sure.

It is not normal to give benefit of the doubt when it comes to validity of Ordinations. This is not normal behavior.

Nor is this a normal time in the Church... Do you normally assume that all priests are invalid? If you knew Father Ward at all or anything about him you would know that he would never allow seminarians in his care to be ordained invalidly. But I think the point here is that things are being assumed and rumors are being spread by people who don't even know these priests.

God knows the Truth, so go ahead and believe whatever you want.

[Sophia3]

Are they in full communion with Rome and approved by their Bishop?

I buy my scapulars from them

Nope and nope.

Interesting, what makes you so sure of this? What have they done to not be in union with Rome?

I have a better question. Where are their Holy Orders coming from these days? I've known about these guys for a while, and can't find that answer to this day.

I do not remember the name of the bishop who ordained the priests, but it was legit and has been made public. They would tell you if you asked.

If found this about Father Ward's ordination on the web: Fr. Anthony D. Ward, was ordained by Archbishop Lefebvre on April 14, 1973 and was incardinated to a diocese in northern Spain and subsequently given permission by the-then local bishop to travel abroad since Spanish was not his native language.

Not questioning Father Wards Ordination just the rest of them? Everything I can find says they will not devulge the Bishops name because they don't want to and the Bishops doesn't want anyone to know who he is. There is something not kosher about that.

I have personally heard the name before and it has been put out there--nothing not kosher about it---they had a good reason for not publishing the name to the world. Rome has the name and all is well.

I'm sure it's not too hard in this day and age in the Church to imagine that there could be a reason for it. If you knew their story I think you would understand.

It still baffles me how they are not at least given the benefit of the doubt until people find out for sure.

It's rather moot for me at this point, but it has always struck me as odd. I've never heard of that even under Francis's reign, and these guys likely hid it even under the relatively friendly reign of Benedict XVI. Mind you, Archbishop Lefebvre never hid it when he ordained priests. Nor did any other traditional Catholic bishops that I am aware of. It really looks off that this place give no info at all about ordinations to the public, especially given the common concerns traditional Catholic laity have over validity of Holy Orders. It may seem justified to them (and even could be given the current situation in Rome), though it looks suspicious.

Admittedly, I only know a little bit about them, so I won't condemn them wholeheartedly. As I pointed out above, I don't have a dog in that particular fight anymore.

It's no fight—if you cared to know anything about it you could easily find out; instead you very rudely keep referring to priests as "these guys". They are priests and recognized as such by the Bishop who ordained them, by Rome and even the local Bishop knows that they are or why would he have given them faculties before? Really, this is nonesense. It is an offense to God when you keep referring to them in that way.

[Heinrich]

Sophia, why are you so emotionally attached to a place you have not been to? Or have you?

[Sophia3]

Sophia, why are you so emotionally attached to a place you have not been to? Or have you?

I have no interest in responding to you.

[Heinrich]

Merry Christmas.

[St.Justin]

Are they in full communion with Rome and approved by their Bishop?

I buy my scapulars from them

Nope and nope.

Interesting, what makes you so sure of this? What have they done to not be in union with Rome?

I have a better question. Where are their Holy Orders coming from these days? I've known about these guys for a while, and can't find that answer to this day.

I do not remember the name of the bishop who ordained the priests, but it was legit and has been made public. They would tell you if you asked.

If found this about Father Ward's ordination on the web: Fr. Anthony D. Ward, was ordained by Archbishop Lefebvre on April 14, 1973 and was incardinated to a diocese in northern Spain and subsequently given permission by the-then local bishop to travel abroad since Spanish was not his native language.

Not questioning Father Wards Ordination just the rest of them? Everything I can find says they will not devulge the Bishops name because they don't want to and the Bishops doesn't want anyone to know who he is. There is something not kosher about that.

I have personally heard the name before and it has been put out there--nothing not kosher about it---they had a good reason for not publishing the name to the world. Rome has the name and all is well.

I'm sure it's not too hard in this day and age in the Church to imagine that there could be a reason for it. If you knew their story I think you would understand.

It still baffles me how they are not at least given the benefit of the doubt until people find out for sure.

It is not normal to give benefit of the doubt when it comes to validity of Ordinations. This is not normal behavior.

Nor is this a normal time in the Church... Do you normally assume that all priests are invalid? If you knew Father Ward at all or anything about him you would know that he would never allow seminarians in his care to be ordained invalidly. But I think the point here is that things are being assumed and rumors are being spread by people who don't even know these priests.

God knows the Truth, so go ahead and believe whatever you want.

If it is so easy to find why can't anyone find the information??? The Church does not work this way in that Ordinations aren't to be in the category of "Only God knows". They are supposed yto be in the public domain. This is starting to sound more like a cult.

[Sophia3]

Are they in full communion with Rome and approved by their Bishop?

I buy my scapulars from them

Nope and nope.

Interesting, what makes you so sure of this? What have they done to not be in union with Rome?

I have a better question. Where are their Holy Orders coming from these days? I've known about these guys for a while, and can't find that answer to this day.

I do not remember the name of the bishop who ordained the priests, but it was legit and has been made public. They would tell you if you asked.

If found this about Father Ward's ordination on the web: Fr. Anthony D. Ward, was ordained by Archbishop Lefebvre on April 14, 1973 and was incardinated to a diocese in northern Spain and subsequently given permission by the-then local bishop to travel abroad since Spanish was not his native language.

Not questioning Father Wards Ordination just the rest of them? Everything I can find says they will not devulge the Bishops name because they don't want to and the Bishops doesn't want anyone to know who he is. There is something not kosher about that.

I have personally heard the name before and it has been put out there--nothing not kosher about it---they had a good reason for not publishing the name to the world. Rome has the name and all is well.

I'm sure it's not too hard in this day and age in the Church to imagine that there could be a reason for it. If you knew their story I think you would understand.

It still baffles me how they are not at least given the benefit of the doubt until people find out for sure.

It is not normal to give benefit of the doubt when it comes to validity of Ordinations. This is not normal behavior.

Nor is this a normal time in the Church... Do you normally assume that all priests are invalid? If you knew Father Ward at all or anything about him you would know that he would never allow seminarians in his care to be ordained invalidly. But I think the point here is that things are being assumed and rumors are being spread by people who don't even know these priests.

God knows the Truth, so go ahead and believe whatever you want.

If it is so easy to find why can't anyone find the information??? The Church does not work this way in that Ordinations aren't to be in the category of "Only God knows". They are supposed yto be in the public domain. This is starting to sound more like a cult.

Lol, nice, except that anyone can find the information if they want to.

[St.Justin]

Nor is this a normal time in the Church... Do you normally assume that all priests are invalid? If you knew Father Ward at all or anything about him you would know that he would never allow seminarians in his care to be ordained invalidly. But I think the point here is that things are being assumed and rumors are being spread by people who don't even know these priests.

God knows the Truth, so go ahead and believe whatever you want.
[/quote]

If it is so easy to find why can't anyone find the information??? The Church does not work this way in that Ordinations aren't to be in the category of "Only God knows". They are supposed yto be in the public domain. This is starting to sound more like a cult.
[/quote]

Lol, nice, except that anyone can find the information if they want to.
[/quote]

I can't find it so why don't you just post it or give me the link and that will settle my point?????

Otherwise I have to assume that you don't know