The Splinters of Trad Groups Thread

Started by RedCaves, January 14, 2017, 08:36:39 PM

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Gardener

Sophia3, it's a canard, pure and simple. It has no truth. I personally know 6 FSSP priests, Heinrich knows many of the same, and none of them are required to celebrate, even once a year, the Novus Ordo. The times where a priest at a diocesan parish is sick, and they have been asked to say Mass, they make it clear they will be celebrating the TLM. Sometimes they are taken up on it and other times they are told someone else can be found. They are not ordained to that end, of celebrating the Novus Ordo. They are not trained to that end. That which can be gratuitously asserted can be gratuitously denied, and I'm denying it because I've asked multiple FSSP priests if this is true. They all say the same thing: it's not true.

Feel free to contact their seminary in Denton and clarify.

I personally know a former seminarian who, along with everyone in his first year class, was told the following, "If you ever intend to say the Novus Ordo, please let us know now. This is not the place for you."

Kind of an odd thing to say to a bunch of men in a Fraternity that "...is required to train priests for, and ordain priests for, and allow, the Novus Ordo Mass."
"If anyone does not wish to have Mary Immaculate for his Mother, he will not have Christ for his Brother." - St. Maximilian Kolbe

Sophia3

Quote from: Gardener on December 11, 2017, 01:38:47 PM
Sophia3, it's a canard, pure and simple. It has no truth. I personally know 6 FSSP priests, Heinrich knows many of the same, and none of them are required to celebrate, even once a year, the Novus Ordo. The times where a priest at a diocesan parish is sick, and they have been asked to say Mass, they make it clear they will be celebrating the TLM. Sometimes they are taken up on it and other times they are told someone else can be found. They are not ordained to that end, of celebrating the Novus Ordo. They are not trained to that end. That which can be gratuitously asserted can be gratuitously denied, and I'm denying it because I've asked multiple FSSP priests if this is true. They all say the same thing: it's not true.

Feel free to contact their seminary in Denton and clarify.

I personally know a former seminarian who, along with everyone in his first year class, was told the following, "If you ever intend to say the Novus Ordo, please let us know now. This is not the place for you."

Kind of an odd thing to say to a bunch of men in a Fraternity that "...is required to train priests for, and ordain priests for, and allow, the Novus Ordo Mass."
May years ago I communicated with a FSSP priest who was saying similar things to what you are saying but eventually admitted that they have to agree with the Novus Ordo to some degree in order to do whst they do, so no, I am not spreading rumors.

Sophia3


Sophia3

It is you who are spreading rumors by insinuating that Servants of the Holy Family is doing something that makes it a place that people should not go when you have nothing to stand on. What is their crime?
Their crime is that they will not pay homage to the Novus Ordo. If they did, they would have the same exact status as the FSSP in Colorado Springs.

Heinrich

Common knowledge of misinformed people.
Schaff Recht mir Gott und führe meine Sache gegen ein unheiliges Volk . . .   .                          
Lex Orandi, lex credendi, lex vivendi.
"Die Welt sucht nach Ehre, Ansehen, Reichtum, Vergnügen; die Heiligen aber suchen Demütigung, Verachtung, Armut, Abtötung und Buße." --Ausschnitt von der Geschichte des Lebens St. Bennos.

Gardener

#65
Quote from: Sophia3 on December 11, 2017, 02:47:50 PM
Quote from: Gardener on December 11, 2017, 01:38:47 PM
Sophia3, it's a canard, pure and simple. It has no truth. I personally know 6 FSSP priests, Heinrich knows many of the same, and none of them are required to celebrate, even once a year, the Novus Ordo. The times where a priest at a diocesan parish is sick, and they have been asked to say Mass, they make it clear they will be celebrating the TLM. Sometimes they are taken up on it and other times they are told someone else can be found. They are not ordained to that end, of celebrating the Novus Ordo. They are not trained to that end. That which can be gratuitously asserted can be gratuitously denied, and I'm denying it because I've asked multiple FSSP priests if this is true. They all say the same thing: it's not true.

Feel free to contact their seminary in Denton and clarify.

I personally know a former seminarian who, along with everyone in his first year class, was told the following, "If you ever intend to say the Novus Ordo, please let us know now. This is not the place for you."

Kind of an odd thing to say to a bunch of men in a Fraternity that "...is required to train priests for, and ordain priests for, and allow, the Novus Ordo Mass."
May years ago I communicated with a FSSP priest who was saying similar things to what you are saying but eventually admitted that they have to agree with the Novus Ordo to some degree in order to do whst they do, so no, I am not spreading rumors.

To agree with the Novus Ordo to some degree != learn, celebrate, and allow.

Which is it?

Because you're jumping all over the place and I don't know if it's because you're a deficient debater or think you're being clever.
ETA:
Please define what you mean by "agree with the Novus Ordro to some degree", or what this priest with whom you talked apparently meant.
"If anyone does not wish to have Mary Immaculate for his Mother, he will not have Christ for his Brother." - St. Maximilian Kolbe

Heinrich

Quote from: Sophia3 on December 11, 2017, 03:17:47 PM
It is you who are spreading rumors by insinuating that Servants of the Holy Family is doing something that makes it a place that people should not go when you have nothing to stand on. What is their crime?
Their crime is that they will not pay homage to the Novus Ordo. If they did, they would have the same exact status as the FSSP in Colorado Springs.

Ridiculous. Gardener clearly elucidated the facts, but you still ramble on with the same pablum. Once again I will ask, have you ever in any way been associated with the Catholic scene in Colorado Springs?
Schaff Recht mir Gott und führe meine Sache gegen ein unheiliges Volk . . .   .                          
Lex Orandi, lex credendi, lex vivendi.
"Die Welt sucht nach Ehre, Ansehen, Reichtum, Vergnügen; die Heiligen aber suchen Demütigung, Verachtung, Armut, Abtötung und Buße." --Ausschnitt von der Geschichte des Lebens St. Bennos.

Sophia3

Quote from: Gardener on December 11, 2017, 05:46:17 PM
Quote from: Sophia3 on December 11, 2017, 02:47:50 PM
Quote from: Gardener on December 11, 2017, 01:38:47 PM
Sophia3, it's a canard, pure and simple. It has no truth. I personally know 6 FSSP priests, Heinrich knows many of the same, and none of them are required to celebrate, even once a year, the Novus Ordo. The times where a priest at a diocesan parish is sick, and they have been asked to say Mass, they make it clear they will be celebrating the TLM. Sometimes they are taken up on it and other times they are told someone else can be found. They are not ordained to that end, of celebrating the Novus Ordo. They are not trained to that end. That which can be gratuitously asserted can be gratuitously denied, and I'm denying it because I've asked multiple FSSP priests if this is true. They all say the same thing: it's not true.

Feel free to contact their seminary in Denton and clarify.

I personally know a former seminarian who, along with everyone in his first year class, was told the following, "If you ever intend to say the Novus Ordo, please let us know now. This is not the place for you."

Kind of an odd thing to say to a bunch of men in a Fraternity that "...is required to train priests for, and ordain priests for, and allow, the Novus Ordo Mass."
May years ago I communicated with a FSSP priest who was saying similar things to what you are saying but eventually admitted that they have to agree with the Novus Ordo to some degree in order to do whst they do, so no, I am not spreading rumors.

To agree with the Novus Ordo to some degree != learn, celebrate, and allow.

Which is it?

Because you're jumping all over the place and I don't know if it's because you're a deficient debater or think you're being clever.
ETA:
Please define what you mean by "agree with the Novus Ordro to some degree", or what this priest with whom you talked apparently meant.
Read the links that I provided for examples of what is required for the status that you enjoy. You sound very intelligent, which makes me think that it is you who are playing dumb.

Sophia3

Quote from: Heinrich on December 11, 2017, 06:06:23 PM
Quote from: Sophia3 on December 11, 2017, 03:17:47 PM
It is you who are spreading rumors by insinuating that Servants of the Holy Family is doing something that makes it a place that people should not go when you have nothing to stand on. What is their crime?
Their crime is that they will not pay homage to the Novus Ordo. If they did, they would have the same exact status as the FSSP in Colorado Springs.

Ridiculous. Gardener clearly elucidated the facts, but you still ramble on with the same pablum. Once again I will ask, have you ever in any way been associated with the Catholic scene in Colorado Springs?
Funny, still no reason given for your condemning of these priests. I already answered your question.

Heinrich

Quote from: Sophia3 on December 11, 2017, 07:12:28 PM
Quote from: Heinrich on December 11, 2017, 06:06:23 PM
Quote from: Sophia3 on December 11, 2017, 03:17:47 PM
It is you who are spreading rumors by insinuating that Servants of the Holy Family is doing something that makes it a place that people should not go when you have nothing to stand on. What is their crime?
Their crime is that they will not pay homage to the Novus Ordo. If they did, they would have the same exact status as the FSSP in Colorado Springs.

Ridiculous. Gardener clearly elucidated the facts, but you still ramble on with the same pablum. Once again I will ask, have you ever in any way been associated with the Catholic scene in Colorado Springs?
Funny, still no reason given for your condemning of these priests. I already answered your question.

You know someone who goes there. Woooppeee. I know many who once did and share similar stories. I was there once. Who, objectively, has more knowledge of this?
Schaff Recht mir Gott und führe meine Sache gegen ein unheiliges Volk . . .   .                          
Lex Orandi, lex credendi, lex vivendi.
"Die Welt sucht nach Ehre, Ansehen, Reichtum, Vergnügen; die Heiligen aber suchen Demütigung, Verachtung, Armut, Abtötung und Buße." --Ausschnitt von der Geschichte des Lebens St. Bennos.

Sophia3

Quote from: Heinrich on December 11, 2017, 07:31:13 PM
Quote from: Sophia3 on December 11, 2017, 07:12:28 PM
Quote from: Heinrich on December 11, 2017, 06:06:23 PM
Quote from: Sophia3 on December 11, 2017, 03:17:47 PM
It is you who are spreading rumors by insinuating that Servants of the Holy Family is doing something that makes it a place that people should not go when you have nothing to stand on. What is their crime?
Their crime is that they will not pay homage to the Novus Ordo. If they did, they would have the same exact status as the FSSP in Colorado Springs.

Ridiculous. Gardener clearly elucidated the facts, but you still ramble on with the same pablum. Once again I will ask, have you ever in any way been associated with the Catholic scene in Colorado Springs?
Funny, still no reason given for your condemning of these priests. I already answered your question.

You know someone who goes there. Woooppeee. I know many who once did and share similar stories. I was there once. Who, objectively, has more knowledge of this?
You missed additional points—either way—I am well aware of what is going on in the area. You have yet to answer my question...

Heinrich

Quote from: Sophia3 on December 11, 2017, 07:38:36 PM
Quote from: Heinrich on December 11, 2017, 07:31:13 PM
Quote from: Sophia3 on December 11, 2017, 07:12:28 PM
Quote from: Heinrich on December 11, 2017, 06:06:23 PM
Quote from: Sophia3 on December 11, 2017, 03:17:47 PM
It is you who are spreading rumors by insinuating that Servants of the Holy Family is doing something that makes it a place that people should not go when you have nothing to stand on. What is their crime?
Their crime is that they will not pay homage to the Novus Ordo. If they did, they would have the same exact status as the FSSP in Colorado Springs.

Ridiculous. Gardener clearly elucidated the facts, but you still ramble on with the same pablum. Once again I will ask, have you ever in any way been associated with the Catholic scene in Colorado Springs?
Funny, still no reason given for your condemning of these priests. I already answered your question.

You know someone who goes there. Woooppeee. I know many who once did and share similar stories. I was there once. Who, objectively, has more knowledge of this?
You missed additional points—either way—I am well aware of what is going on in the area. You have yet to answer my question...

How? Do you live here? What was your question?
Schaff Recht mir Gott und führe meine Sache gegen ein unheiliges Volk . . .   .                          
Lex Orandi, lex credendi, lex vivendi.
"Die Welt sucht nach Ehre, Ansehen, Reichtum, Vergnügen; die Heiligen aber suchen Demütigung, Verachtung, Armut, Abtötung und Buße." --Ausschnitt von der Geschichte des Lebens St. Bennos.

Sophia3

#72
Quote from: Heinrich on December 11, 2017, 08:27:43 PM
Quote from: Sophia3 on December 11, 2017, 07:38:36 PM
Quote from: Heinrich on December 11, 2017, 07:31:13 PM
Quote from: Sophia3 on December 11, 2017, 07:12:28 PM
Quote from: Heinrich on December 11, 2017, 06:06:23 PM
Quote from: Sophia3 on December 11, 2017, 03:17:47 PM
It is you who are spreading rumors by insinuating that Servants of the Holy Family is doing something that makes it a place that people should not go when you have nothing to stand on. What is their crime?
Their crime is that they will not pay homage to the Novus Ordo. If they did, they would have the same exact status as the FSSP in Colorado Springs.

Ridiculous. Gardener clearly elucidated the facts, but you still ramble on with the same pablum. Once again I will ask, have you ever in any way been associated with the Catholic scene in Colorado Springs?
Funny, still no reason given for your condemning of these priests. I already answered your question.

You know someone who goes there. Woooppeee. I know many who once did and share similar stories. I was there once. Who, objectively, has more knowledge of this?
You missed additional points—either way—I am well aware of what is going on in the area. You have yet to answer my question...

How? Do you live here? What was your question?

::) Guess you will have to read back to figure out what I asked several times... PS living somewhere doesn't make you an expert on anything.

bigbadtrad

Just to follow up on Sophia's point which is that yes some priests in the FSSP were asked (not required) to do the Novus Ordo, and yes some were required (some in France 15 years ago at least) to do it and I know of one who wandered from priory to priory to avoid saying the Novus Ordo. Maybe they've been weeded out after the shakeout of Protocol 1411 and this info is 15 years old about France. Most of the accusations against the FSSP were based on actions post Protocol 1411 which in fact were true.

The Novus Ordo of the FSSP I know of for a fact was in Scranton, PA on Saturday at 4 or 5pm also about 15 years ago. I know the priest and stayed in the rectory, this is not speculation. It was a good faith type thing with the diocese. I know they didn't do it later on with subsequent priests and to this day I can't think of 1 place of the FSSP that does do the Novus Ordo anymore. During that time even the ICK did the Novus Ordo around the Protocol 1411 shakeout. They concelebrated to avoid having issues. Fr. Schmidtz concelebrated with the then Bishop Burke and Fr. Wach did it with the bishop over in Germany to avoid the scrutiny of the FSSP. They don't do it anymore, but it did happen around the year 2000 as also an act of good faith that they weren't opposed to the Novus Ordo in principle.

I will add in the seminary in Denton they do teach the TLM as a preference than a point of principle. They did change the professors back around 2000 to reflect the changes the Vatican mandated, which isn't to say there aren't fine priests or professors still in the seminary because there are some great ones still there.

"God has proved his love to us by laying down his life for our sakes; we too must be ready to lay down our lives for the sake of our brethren." 1 John 3:16

tradne4163

Quote from: Sophia3 on November 28, 2017, 01:53:48 PM
Quote from: Kaesekopf on January 18, 2017, 05:21:02 AM
Quote from: LausTibiChriste on January 18, 2017, 05:17:28 AM
Are they in full communion with Rome and approved by their Bishop?

I buy my scapulars from them

Nope and nope.

Interesting, what makes you so sure of this? What have they done to not be in union with Rome?
I have a better question. Where are their Holy Orders coming from these days? I've known about these guys for a while, and can't find that answer to this day.
Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner.

Take any post I write with a grain of salt. I've been wrong before, and can be again