In 3 sentences, your prediction for current wars in Eastern Europe and ME

[Miriam_M]

We are not required to vote for the unworthy candidate.

Who said we are?

Well there's this:

IMHO it would be a mortal sin to fail to vote against the satanic globalists.

Did I say that? If so, please cite the post.

No, that was TradGranny's response to me saying I was going to sit out the election, in another thread. I didn't mean to imply it was you. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

No Problem.  I just wanted clarification. 

[Greg]

Ltc.

Watch this and tell me that not voting for a flawed candidate is the right thing to do when that candidate is the last bulwark against deep state totalitarianism.

https://youtu.be/abrIaFLExRI?si=PNSJD1olF2yeRWty

This might very well be the last time Americans get to vote at all.

America is close to ending up like Canada, or in civil breakdown (but you think this highly unlikely)

In fact the only reason I can imagine one wouldn't vote for Trump is because they would prefer a battle with the enemy, burn the whole system down and see who is left standing.

You left Canada because it was so shit and becoming totalitarian, but you appear to want to deny Americans the option of stopping the same final decline of their country.  And they are on the same trajectory.

Trump is personally morally flawed.  So is Vladimir Putin, whom you and I both would vote for.

[LausTibiChriste]

You're misunderstanding the crux of my argument:

I'm arguing that he facilitates the "decline" as much, if not more, than Biden or Obama, because he dresses it up under patriotic, right-wing nationalism, and people eat it up because they're too lazy to do otherwise.

I am NOT arguing that he's immoral, ergo you shouldn't vote for him. I'm arguing that him "slowing the decline" is a false narrative and the evidence from his 4 years in power proves it.

I don't know why we're bringing Canada into the mix, it's a despotic shithole - is this some sort of "gotcha"?

Look, Trump had 4 years in power and NOTHING came of it. Nothing. Overturning RvW was a nothing burger except in small pockets.

In the end I don't care - I know I won't change the minds of those who think otherwise, and that's fine. I get it, I really do. I was so pr-Trump in 2016 it probably was a contributing factor to my Dad's declining cardiac health (lol, only kidding, it was the vaccine Trump peddled).

America will continue it's slow decline, as will the rest of the West, until either God or the Russians smite us.

I'll go sit in my dacha, drink some vodka and enjoy the show.

Just make sure y'all vote harder, it'll fix things this time - no really.

P.S. I am completely happy being wrong. If he gets elected and spends the next 4 years cleaning up the country, deo gratias. I mean that.

[Baylee]

We are not required to vote for the unworthy candidate.

Who said we are?

Well there's this:

IMHO it would be a mortal sin to fail to vote against the satanic globalists.

Yep.  This would be along the lines of what I've seen in the past.  This is why a clarification of Fr Jone was necessary. 

One may vote for an unworthy candidate only when this is necessary to prevent a still less worthy candidate from obtaining office; but in such a case one should explain the reason for his action if this be possible. -Fr Jone

Those of us who choose not to vote for either unworthy candidate act in a completely Catholic manner.  It is not a sin let alone a MORTAL sin to choose not to vote when we have two unworthy candidates.

It is interesting to note that Fr Jone also adds that one should explain the reason for voting for an unworthy candidate if one decides to do so.

[Greg]

Look, Trump had 4 years in power and NOTHING came of it. Nothing. Overturning RvW was a nothing burger except in small pockets.

Nothing came of it?

Of course it did.  Otherwise the deep state would be perfectly happy for him to remain there and would not bother to install Biden who has been a disaster for them.  They literally had to release a worldwide virus and turn the world on its head to stop him winning again.  They must have feared something he did or would do.

Overturning Row v Wade was not a nothing burger which is why the leftists freaked out over it.

I never had expectations he was going to be able to cut out the rot in a 4 year term.  That was expecting far too much.

What Trump did do BIGLY is expose the rot and the deep state and the uniparty that runs the country.  Today MILLIONS more people in America and Billons around the world are awake to it.

[Greg]

P.S. I am completely happy being wrong. If he gets elected and spends the next 4 years cleaning up the country, deo gratias. I mean that.

That outcome is impossible if people don't vote for him.

[ChairmanJoeAintMyPrez]

Sorry, but there is no Catholic justification for voting Trump.

You impeach yourself constantly by overstating your case and demonstrating your ignorance.

[LausTibiChriste]

Sorry, but there is no Catholic justification for voting Trump.

You impeach yourself constantly by overstating your case and demonstrating your ignorance.

Humour me then, justify voting for Trump using purely Catholic principles.

[ChairmanJoeAintMyPrez]

Humour me then, justify voting for Trump using purely Catholic principles.

If you'd spend thirty seconds googling, you would already know that there are countless theologians, both conservative and traditional, both now and before V2, who have written in support of the opinion that it is allowed and even prudent:

https://sspx.org/en/news-events/news/catholic-morally-obligated-vote-lesser-two-evils-60308

it is permissible to vote in such a case, provided that one can be sure that there truly is a lesser evil, and that there is a grave reason to do so.

https://www.ncregister.com/news/is-there-a-lesser-of-two-evils-oa54gmsn

It is sinful to vote for the enemies of religion or liberty, except to exclude a worse candidate, or unless compelled by fear of great personal harm, relatively greater than the public harm at stake.

https://fssp.com/lesser-of-two-evils/

In such cases, a Catholic may vote for the lesser of the two evils.

[Miriam_M]

If any Catholic is not aware of the immediate goals of Biden and his proxies -- to wit, expansion of the SC with leftist judges so as to ensure reversal of Roe v.Wade -- then that Catholic has simply not been paying attention.

It's one of their highest priority goals.  No Catholic should take the agenda of the Culture of Death lightly, or assume they don't really mean it or won't get away with such an outrageous suggestion as packing the Court.  They are dedicated and aggressive about abortion for any reason and at any stage of gestation, for any age of mother, and with no legal or social consequences for any participant.  They will probably go further than that -- given their track record -- and push for an addition to the Constitution for this, as an "absolute" right. 

Those logical probabilities are in themselves sufficient reasons for Catholics to vote against the senile incompetent in the WH.

[awkward customer]

Is Trump more likely than Biden to bring about a nuclear war, or less likely?

Certainly a fair consideration when making voting decisions.

Whatever else either candidate might get up to in the US, the rest of the world would like this question to be taken into account more often than it has been up until now.

Again, fair question.  But then, we have to respect other people's reasons for making their own decisions and what criteria they used to reach those decisions.

Thank you.  So far yours is the only response to this question, which kind of illustrates my point.  Everyone is bickering about Trump and what he will or won't do in the US.  Meanwhile the potential for WW3 seems greater now than I have ever known it and the US government is the major player in the madness.

Which is why I don't agree that we have to respect other people's reasons for deciding who to vote for or whether to even bother.  Unless, of course, they decide to actually  look at what their government does in their name and consider which candidate is more or less likely to continue the catastrophe in Ukraine started by your own country's warmongering elite who, together with their European poodles, seem to become more unhinged by the day.

[Melkor]

I lost brain cells reading this thread.

[Greg]

.

I did not know the vaccine did not work.  I just strongly suspected it would be a bodge.  In fact my view was mostly based on God not missing an opportunity to cause suffering and anger in the mRNA countries by their governments poisoning them.  Seemed to me like a rare opportunity to separate the sheep from the goats and I wrote that here and in emails to family members.

Pretty impressive how quickly you can go from being anti-vaccine to "I didn't know it didn't work" when Trump is thrown in the mix.

Not really.  I was always clear about that.  I am not anti vaccine.  I am anti experimental drugs that I dont need.  If it was a vaccine that worked and/or Covid was disease that killed 10% of 55 year old men, I would have taken it in a trice.