Revised opinion on Covid vaccine safety

[josh987654321]

HCQ fell into disuse for humans years ago as new medications with better efficacy and a cleaner side effect profile were developed for those conditions that the drug was indicated to treat. This was pre-Covid.

Sure, however, it's safe (used as a preventative even) therefore nobody had any right to deny it for those who wished to try it.

Medical treatments have always been between patient and doctor and it's none of anyone's business, if I do something silly I'll have to live with the consequences but it'll be my decision that will be informed to the best of my ability, so if it backfires, then I can live with that if it was my informed decision, but when a government and corrupt tyrants, try to force a treatment on me that I don't want and that backfires, then I have to live with the consequences of someone else's decisions, and that is totally unacceptable!

Anyone who is actively shilling online for HCQ likely has a financial reason for doing so. There are kits available for distribution. If it isn't that, then the person has a tinfoil hat.

And how you can definitely declare such a thing shows a lack of humility on your part which is what landed most people in this mess in the first place, by dismissing people out of hand. HCQ has helped people. The LANCET medical journal even committed fraud and retracted their condemnation of it here - https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)31180-6/fulltext

So those who spread this lie (even imposing fines and prison sentences in Australia) did so with total impunity, and then when it was shown to be based on fraud, they just quietly retracted it and the laws didn't change neither was the lie corrected in the minds of the masses and there are countless examples of this wicked behavior!

Furthermore, even if you were right, it's like the flat earthers, by calling them tin foil hat loonies, it just shows that you yourself can't explain it, we should all be able to explain why the Earth is round as there are many proofs and explanations for this and yet most people are dumbfounded with it and thus can only resort to name calling and insults, which perpetuates the cycle because insults and name calling simply tells me that you don't know either.

God Bless

[josh987654321]

I'm sure all those Chinese, Russian and Germans who stood by and did nothing while their neighbours were dragged to the death camps regret it too.

Too late.  Damage is done.  You picked your side and we all know what you'll do next time any pressure is applied.  Fold like a cheap suit and sell out.

Good analogy, but incorrect conclusion IMO, take for example Charlie Brown and Franz Stigler, where Franz Stigler acted with integrity and was a good man, he didn't condemn Hitler at the time and despite being on the wrong side and shooting down allies and there are other such examples of good people caught up on wrong sides who acted with integrity in certain cases, the real trick, is to sort out those with integrity and remorse and those who are merely opportunists.

There was another story of a Nazi landing his plane on an allied airfield near the end of the war and when a US Marine tried to remove his medal awarded to him by Hitler he refused to hand it over as he was proud of it, that scumbag should never have been given asylum or special treatment regardless of his knowledge or expertise, so some of those examples exist also and we must watch for those IMO. 

Every "died suddenly" and vaccine injured person, I have zero sympathy for unless they can show me a social media post where the person said back in 2021-22.  "I had to have the vaccine to keep my job but I stand with those who wish to remain unvaccinated and defend their right to do that".

I think that's a little unfair, because many people simply kept quiet, furthermore, the propaganda was relentless, the ones who were really tyrant about it and show no remorse, yea fair call, but it's a very grey area and it's not so black and white IMO.

I'd prefer to be as merciful as possible and most important, how do we move forward and stop them from doing it again? How do we get ahead of the curve and improve the situation? Do not let bitterness take over, the jab side effects will be consequence enough, I'm thankful despite all the propaganda and even losing my job I escaped their traps by the grace of God.

Furthermore, forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us. How do we move forward? How do we win?

There are certainly those, I'm thinking those like Brad Hazzard in Australia, mate, nowhere on Earth will he hide when the tables turn and if not in this life certainly in the next lest he seriously repent.

God Bless

[Greg]

You should not remain quiet in the face of tyranny.

[josh987654321]

You should not remain quiet in the face of tyranny.

If it were a common thing then it wouldn't be a heroic act, while cowardice isn't a virtue, it's not a crime either. Recall St Peter who denied Him or even St Longinus who thrust the lance into the Sacred Heart of Christ and all the disciples fled except for St John, but later they would all find great courage and become martyrs for the faith.

God Bless

[awkward customer]

You should not remain quiet in the face of tyranny.

If it were a common thing then it wouldn't be a heroic act, while cowardice isn't a virtue, it's not a crime either. Recall St Peter who denied Him or even St Longinus who thrust the lance into the Sacred Heart of Christ and all the disciples fled except for St John, but later they would all find great courage and become martyrs for the faith.

God Bless

Exactly.  Speaking out against tyranny isn't a common thing.  You said it.

And there's the answer to your earlier questions.

I'd prefer to be as merciful as possible and most important, how do we move forward and stop them from doing it again? How do we get ahead of the curve and improve the situation? Do not let bitterness take over, the jab side effects will be consequence enough, I'm thankful despite all the propaganda and even losing my job I escaped their traps by the grace of God.

Furthermore, forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us. How do we move forward? How do we win?

The answer is - you can't.  Because as you point out above, speaking out against tyranny is not "a common thing" and the majority won't do it because they aren't prepared to make an "heroic act".

Tyrants always win to begin with because most people will not act against them.  They fall eventually because their own destructive impulses end up destroying them and not because the people resisted them.  The problem is, they tend to kill millions of people before they fall

[Miriam_M]

For context, it's important to understand the sea-change in public health policy and practice in the U.S. which has occurred within just a couple of generations.  I cannot emphasize enough how the practice of medicine has steadily moved from an individualized approach to a massive, impersonal, non-differentiated one.  In itself, that would be problematic, but the more important principle underscoring that is the determination to eradicate all disease --every pathogen-- from human life, and to do so as aggressively as possible.

Driving that principle is the arrogant assumption that human beings deserve to be disease-free at every moment of their life and that nothing less than that should be tolerated by institutional medicine. The former reveals an abysmal understanding of biology and immunology; the latter, a thoroughly secular (Godless) philosophy of man's place in the universe.

It is difficult to find anyone in the practice of medicine who will be honest about these fallacies -- including too often among Catholics employed in medicine.

So, again, we have a perfect storm of three intersecting realities:

a "universal" approach to healthcare;
a zero tolerance policy about the disease process in biology, marked by absolute and immediate conquest;
an arrogant vision about what human beings "deserve," with a priority on eradicating discomfort, however temporary or even salutary.

We could add to the third point an increasing reliance on the pharmaceutical industry and any other artificial means to deny natural processes.

Combine those three or four points with the political position of the healthcare industry in the U.S. and how subserviently and without question politicians rely on their edicts, and you have, yes, a situation ripe for tyranny for those who remain silent.

[diaduit]

Furthermore, forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us. How do we move forward? How do we win?



God Bless

Where has Lauremar asked for forgiveness? not me personally but she was unbelievably arrogant with name calling to Trad Granny and still has a hint of that ole side with her recent comment on HCQ and the tin foil hat disparaging comments too. 

[ChairmanJoeAintMyPrez]

while cowardice isn't a virtue, it's not a crime either. Recall St Peter who denied Him

St. Peter's denial is held as a serious sin, not a happenstance slip of the tongue.

He would not have wept afterward if the situation were as equivocal as you suggest.

[josh987654321]

while cowardice isn't a virtue, it's not a crime either. Recall St Peter who denied Him

St. Peter's denial is held as a serious sin, not a happenstance slip of the tongue.

He would not have wept afterward if the situation were as equivocal as you suggest.

I was not trying to trivialize it, it's certainly understandable given the circumstances, the other disciples already fled and didn't even follow that far, the main point, is to show how almost all of the disciples abandoned and denied Christ facing such circumstances but later would find great courage and become saints and martyrs for the faith, even St Longinus who thrust the lance into Christ's Sacred Heart.

So those who fell among the propaganda, peer pressure and coercion can turn around by the grace of God if they acknowledge the error of their ways and become stronger than before, so the next time they try it many more can have the courage to say no regardless of the circumstances right from the get go.

Furthermore, Christ did not keep a score sheet and confront the disciples with "how dare you, you abandoned me in my hour of need" etc, He said "Father forgive them, they know not what they do" of course, those like Caiaphas however, the instigators and the ones carrying it out (Dr Fauci, Bill Gates etc, the planners and instigators), are in a different category, as Christ said to Pontius Pilate, the one who handed Him over (Caiaphas) has the greater sin.

God Bless

[lauermar]

To anyone who claimed I caused them to lose their job, defamed them, or called them a 4 letter word, go provide the evidence of it. Disagreeing with someone, calling tinfoil hat or hysterical doesn't meet that test. There is absolutely no reason for anyone to shill for HCQ here unless they are selling it. As I said, my niece took that medication and immediately became very ill. This promotion is irresponsible and should be left to a private doctor.

While we're on the subject of apologies, I've seen many insults thrown around here among the members. I've seen some nasty accusations back and forth. It'sa regular thing. None of the perpetrators apologize. The mod has to block them. It's ironic that some of you would expect me to apologize for holding a different view from the group.

I'm free to criticize Trump or any politician whose position I don't agree with. Remember it was Trump who warp speeded the vaccine without any concerns for safety or efficacy. It was he who freed Big Pharma from liability in the USA. Other countries elected not to.

I don't owe anyone an apology for being wrong about vaccines. We didn't have the entire truth. Remember that all of you were vaccinated as kids. If that was wrong, not one of you expressed regret over that. If the vaccine had been safe and effective, there would be dead silence here about the antivax sentiment being wrong.

Bringing up Nazi Germany and trying to compare me to them is disgraceful. Go back and read that scripture you're fond of posting here.

[lauermar]

To the person who posted Wikipedia as a credible source of safety information concerning HCQ: it is not routinely used at Chicago area hospitals based on the charts i read daily. Here's why. You can read this after you stop laughing. BTW, doctors do not use Wikipedia as a source for medical information.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK537086/

[josh987654321]

Remember it was Trump who warp speeded the vaccine without any concerns for safety or efficacy.

No!

It was those like Fauci, Gates etc who are primarily responsible here, Trump does earn criticism for warp speed and his comments here, but it was clearly the health institutions totally captured years in the making who spearheaded this whole thing (Event 201). 

Furthermore, it was Trump's base that largely refused to take the jab and Joe Biden said he wouldn't mandate them, but then immediately turned around and mandated them in clear violation of the Nuremburg Code, thus committing crimes against humanity.

The health institutions like Dr Fauci, WHO, Bill Gates, Pfizer etc committed crimes against humanity by lying and misleading the public about their products, treatments and dangers etc and leaders like Joe Biden committed crimes against humanity by mandating a dangerous experimental product in clear violation of the Nuremburg Code.

Trump is guilty of being duped, like many, since he never mandated them, he hasn't committed a crime though, those who lied and deceived committed crimes against humanity (Propaganda) and those who coerced/mandated committed crimes against humanity!   

It was he who freed Big Pharma from liability in the USA. Other countries elected not to.

What other Countries? Part of Pfizer etc contracts required this, coupled with the mass propaganda forced this on many nations. Furthermore, it was actually Ronald Reagan that allowed the liability thing, thus letting the cat out of the bag.

Jair Bolsonaro was the only world leader to get it right, available for those who wanted it, but free choice, no mandates or coercion and made clear there was no liability for such an experimental product if it turns on people and he was crucified for this, attacked on all fronts. 

I don't owe anyone an apology for being wrong about vaccines. We didn't have the entire truth.

Much like Trump, however, you should admit when you were wrong in humility, and if you advised people and you were wrong, you should apologize for that IMO. Culpability is greatly mitigated when you were lied to, but those who were so adamant and participated in the bullying and peer pressure of the unjabbed, rather than letting them decide for themselves, have some blame, mitigated, but some nevertheless IMO.

Remember that all of you were vaccinated as kids. If that was wrong, not one of you expressed regret over that.

I do, my parents didn't know any better many years ago, nor could they, but I have never coerced or forced anyone to take any medical treatments.

If the vaccine had been safe and effective, there would be dead silence here about the antivax sentiment being wrong.

Not true, I always maintained it was each persons free choice, just that they should try to be aware of the risks and pointing out the many lies we were being told.

Bringing up Nazi Germany and trying to compare me to them is disgraceful.

I disagree. There were many unwitting cogs in the machine in Nazi Germany, some were more culpable than others, the main point is figuring out each persons culpability, because when it turns, everyone will say they didn't know, and for many like yourself this is true, but for many others this is absolutely not true, such as those who carefully sought out immunity from liability from the start and if they believed the propaganda of safe and effective, then there was no reason to do this unless they knew and were in on it.

Those like Bill Gates have openly advocated for depopulation.

God Bless

[TradGranny]

March 03, 2024, 07:44:39 AM
    Quote from: LausTibiChriste on February 24, 2024, 04:18:43 PM
    No one cares, lauermar - piss off
Reporting this. Vulgarity is not necessary nor a Catholic response. Probably will take communion on Sunday without going to confession.

Lauermar, please explain why "piss off" is worse than calling someone a "tinfoil-hat-wearing conspiracy theorist," which you repeatedly did in respnse to my posts of peer-reviewed medical research on the NIH website?

[diaduit]

Here is a link to Lauermar original claim that ivermectin damaged her relatives insides and not HCQ

https://www.suscipedomine.com/forum/index.php?topic=26461.msg550803#msg550803

[Heinrich]

Independent of name calling and questionable invectives, the "we-had-to-vaccine-to-keep-our-jobs" defence is cowardly. Many here held the line with covidiocy and other moral threshholds out of duty to Truth.

https://www.zerohedge.com/medical/harvard-medical-school-professor-was-fired-over-not-getting-covid-vaccine