Music program woes

[Severinus]

I have studied and practiced chant for over a decade and reached a point where I ought to be leading a music program or schola.

To put it bluntly, it no longer makes any sense for me to be receiving musical direction in chant from most of the choir directors I've encountered, since I'm plainly better at it than them. Not just technically better, but artistically too. The chant would go better at mass if they simply got out of my way.

There are some exceptions to that, talented musicians and liturgists, and I'm happy to recognize them. I also have a number of weaknesses, including not knowing the organ nor being particularly strong in polyphony. But in chant its another story.

For some reason, others (including priests, older choir directors, some other men who practice chant) do not seem willing to recognize the state of affairs. Random older ladies, who are not involved in the music, do seem to clue in, and privately thank and encourage me, but not any of the people with say. I guess there is a lot of competitiveness roiling under the surface when it comes to who gets to perform or lead liturgical music, so some people want to downplay or not recognize skill.

Unfortunately, music leadership opportunities appear to be few and far between. I have hunted around for parishes where I can properly contribute, on a volunteer basis, and encountered some frankly strange rebuffs. I kind of wonder if the type of people who possess or acquire influence at parishes find me offputting somehow. I don't know, I just mean that it's a struggle to understand why a parish with a weak music program wouldnt welcome me with open arms, or give me space to do what I can do. It makes no sense to me and has become demoralizing.

It would take an essay to explain in detail, but I just wonder if others know what I'm talking about, have encountered comparable barriers at their parish, or have suggestions about what I might be doing wrong.

[The Curt Jester]

When you approach these parishes, do you use similar words to describe your abilities as you have done here?  If so, almost nobody would accept you because they would see it as arrogance or a personal challenge to their authority/expertise.  Furthermore, many parishes do not care about chant in the first place.  That might account for the rebuffs.

Not being able to play the organ is a major weakness because these days church musicians are usually expected to be a jack-of-all-trades.  Singing isn't good enough by itself, you need to be able to direct (chant and other music) and play an instrument. Even in places where there is only chant (few and far between) there is often the expectation of accompanying the chant or improvising/filling time with music.

At my parish, I don't encounter any of that because I am the music director.  That said, I have had plenty of experience elsewhere with opposition to chant (or sacred music of any type).  I have also encountered volunteers who think they know everything and don't.  I am sure that I am not the only music director who has encountered that and those experiences will certainly color their thinking when being approached by someone like you, even if you do know what you are doing.  They can't know that immediately and if you rub them the wrong way they won't be inclined to find out.

[Severinus]

Thanks for replying. I appreciate a reply from a parish music director particularly.

In person I don't say that I'm better than whoever else. All the same, what I expressed in the OP is not arrogant. I was perfectly transparent about both my strengths and my weaknesses, and didn't pretend that I deserve to have a paid position or be made a chant director at some major parish.

Actually, I suspect I'm too humble, if anything, which allows others to assume and/or position themselves as better qualified than me when they aren't.

So as far as the hypothesis that there's something about me they don't like as a first impression, I would exclude arrogance. It's more likely that my affect is't warm and I don't play the political game well. Be that as it may, I'm no longer willing to be directed by someone less qualified. That's just a decision I've made.

If we're talking about small to medium sized, traditional parishes where the music program is either currently non-existent or specifically weak on chant, then it's baffling that a priest or music director would rebuff volunteer help from someone who could solve the issue.

I think that the priests are sometimes too wrapped up in parish politics to make merit-based calls, while a music director could feel intimidated or defensive. Do you have any strategic advice on navigating these scenarios, such that I would ideally wind up taking over the chant direction?

[The Curt Jester]

Please note, I never said you were arrogant, just that people could perceive you in that way.

As far as suggestions, finding a way to be heard without trying to volunteer for everything or just jumping into the normal schedule might be a good idea.  For instance, singing for a funeral (it helps if you are a friend or relative) or for a special event might help you get your foot in the door.  It allows you to show what you are capable of doing without interfering in anything that already exists.  It might also help to have a couple other people who could sing with you.  There is a stigma about solo singers and that is that they are vain and want to steal the show, so to speak.  It's obviously not true in all cases, but there are enough instances to make people (pastors and music directors especially) wary.  Teaching that group what you know is also a useful way of using your chant knowledge even if a church won't let you sing right now. 

Another thought it that many priests may be uncomfortable chanting themselves and if the Mass goes from a low Mass to a high Mass, they will be expected to sing their part.  For those who can't sing, it's very intimidating and there are probably a good share of them who will not take the step to learn.

I will probably add more thoughts later, but for now it's dinner time.

P. S. Where is your general location?

[Severinus]

Thank for this advice, I like it. About my location, I will have to think about whether or not to share it. I may PM you later.

I'm not angling for a solo gig, I'm just saying I'm capable of it if need be. The interpretive freedom can be nice, but I do like singing with other men when the skill level is comparably good and you can really work with each other. There's just a feeling you get when you need your bro to nail something, and he comes through, that nothing else gives you.

[Maximilian]

If we're talking about small to medium sized, traditional parishes where the music program is either currently non-existent or specifically weak on chant, then it's baffling that a priest or music director would rebuff volunteer help from someone who could solve the issue.

"Baffling" only to those who haven't had much experience with human nature. I have seen it happen at two different traditional venues where I attend that talented, trained musicians were deliberately excluded from choirs which often times sounded like a gang of alley cats.

They are a club. They like being a club. They don't want anything to rock the boat. They don't care about the music at all. They sing atrocious popular hymns of dubious theology and no musical merit. Despite the fact that they can't carry a tune, they will never admit that anyone knows (or sings) better than them. They don't want anyone interfering in their club, but their worst nightmare of all is to have someone who actually knows what they are doing to take any leadership.

Also, the pastor will support them. He will make treacly announcements from the pulpit at Christmas and Easter about what a marvelous performance they gave and how hard they practiced. Just like the current choir leaders, he also dreads the idea of anyone rocking the boat by wanting to do real music.

These choirs' concerns about music are just like the teachers' unions concern about children's education which is slim to none. On the teachers' union's list of priorities, all of which revolve entirely around the teachers, children figure at the bottom of the list, if at all. Similarly for the members of these choirs, who often are people with a lot of similarities to the members of the teachers' union, if music appears at all on their list of priorities, it is far down the list.

[benedicite]

I have studied and practiced chant for over a decade and reached a point where I ought to be leading a music program or schola.

To put it bluntly, it no longer makes any sense for me to be receiving musical direction in chant from most of the choir directors I've encountered, since I'm plainly better at it than them. Not just technically better, but artistically too. The chant would go better at mass if they simply got out of my way.

There are some exceptions to that, talented musicians and liturgists, and I'm happy to recognize them. I also have a number of weaknesses, including not knowing the organ nor being particularly strong in polyphony. But in chant its another story.

For some reason, others (including priests, older choir directors, some other men who practice chant) do not seem willing to recognize the state of affairs. Random older ladies, who are not involved in the music, do seem to clue in, and privately thank and encourage me, but not any of the people with say. I guess there is a lot of competitiveness roiling under the surface when it comes to who gets to perform or lead liturgical music, so some people want to downplay or not recognize skill.

Unfortunately, music leadership opportunities appear to be few and far between. I have hunted around for parishes where I can properly contribute, on a volunteer basis, and encountered some frankly strange rebuffs. I kind of wonder if the type of people who possess or acquire influence at parishes find me offputting somehow. I don't know, I just mean that it's a struggle to understand why a parish with a weak music program wouldnt welcome me with open arms, or give me space to do what I can do. It makes no sense to me and has become demoralizing.

It would take an essay to explain in detail, but I just wonder if others know what I'm talking about, have encountered comparable barriers at their parish, or have suggestions about what I might be doing wrong.

Maybe this is God's way of purifying you. If you allow these others to lead you even though you may be better than them this could be a way to grow in holiness. the Blessed Virgin allowed others to teach her in the way of holiness even though she was way more holy than they could ever be.

[Miriam_M]

Thanks for replying. I appreciate a reply from a parish music director particularly.

In person I don't say that I'm better than whoever else. All the same, what I expressed in the OP is not arrogant. I was perfectly transparent about both my strengths and my weaknesses, and didn't pretend that I deserve to have a paid position or be made a chant director at some major parish.

Actually, I suspect I'm too humble, if anything, which allows others to assume and/or position themselves as better qualified than me when they aren't.

So as far as the hypothesis that there's something about me they don't like as a first impression, I would exclude arrogance. It's more likely that my affect is't warm and I don't play the political game well. Be that as it may, I'm no longer willing to be directed by someone less qualified. That's just a decision I've made.

If we're talking about small to medium sized, traditional parishes where the music program is either currently non-existent or specifically weak on chant, then it's baffling that a priest or music director would rebuff volunteer help from someone who could solve the issue.

I think that the priests are sometimes too wrapped up in parish politics to make merit-based calls, while a music director could feel intimidated or defensive. Do you have any strategic advice on navigating these scenarios, such that I would ideally wind up taking over the chant direction?

I don't have specific advice, even though I'm acquainted with the problem.  I will just say that I have known more than one person in your position.  The truth is that most lay chant groups include a variety of proficiencies among their members -- even setting aside the experience of the choir director (if there is one -- a situation which is especially problematic when a group's abilities are uneven because the absence of a director creates problems of its own).  For a capable chanter, it can be frustrating to sing in a group like that, and in this time period in church music, a mixed-level group is the rule, not the exception.

However, the good news is this:
Chant groups need their breaks -- sometimes regularly, sometimes occasionally.  Second piece of good news for someone who truly enjoys chanting and is good at it, is that priests often want/need a cantor for single Masses such as various weekday holy days. (Sunday chant groups are not always available on weekdays, at least not in full attendance.)

Again, I have known people who have cantored solo at TLM's when the standard group is not available, which is why it can be a good idea to let priests at TLM locations know of your availability.  (Obviously you could also offer to audition in person for such priests.)

Third piece of good news is that the demand for capable chanters, including those who can sight-read the chant because they understand the modes, is definitely greater than the supply. There are a number of TLM locations that have to start with low Masses and/or compromise with untrained voices for high Masses when those voices are merely guessing at the notes.

[Severinus]

Maybe this is God's way of purifying you. If you allow these others to lead you even though you may be better than them this could be a way to grow in holiness. the Blessed Virgin allowed others to teach her in the way of holiness even though she was way more holy than they could ever be.

Our Lord is certainly challenging me here, but I don't believe that it's to allow sung masses to sound bad.

I've spent about 12 years in "chant apprenticeship." It's not as if I suddenly became better than the director on the 364th day of year 11. I've already accepted several years of humility. Now I believe he knows I'm ready and he wants me to figure out a way to take on leadership somewhere.

[Severinus]

I don't have specific advice, even though I'm acquainted with the problem.  I will just say that I have known more than one person in your position.  The truth is that most lay chant groups include a variety of proficiencies among their members -- even setting aside the experience of the choir director (if there is one -- a situation which is especially problematic when a group's abilities are uneven because the absence of a director creates problems of its own).  For a capable chanter, it can be frustrating to sing in a group like that, and in this time period in church music, a mixed-level group is the rule, not the exception.

I appreciate everything you're saying, though I have to echo Maximilian's attitude here. For me, frustration in a group like that doesn't stem from mixed skill, it stems from people not caring enough to practice chant, yet still wanting to sing on Sunday.

If people don't practice enough to sound good they ought to pipe down. It's about the the holy mass, not a participation trophy. That has been a recurring source of frustration for me, that many directors and priests don't make or enforce rules about chant practice.

However, the good news is this:
Chant groups need their breaks -- sometimes regularly, sometimes occasionally.  Second piece of good news for someone who truly enjoys chanting and is good at it, is that priests often want/need a cantor for single Masses such as various weekday holy days. (Sunday chant groups are not always available on weekdays, at least not in full attendance.)

Again, I have known people who have cantored solo at TLM's when the standard group is not available, which is why it can be a good idea to let priests at TLM locations know of your availability.  (Obviously you could also offer to audition in person for such priests.)

Curt Jester suggested something similar, and I'll take this on board. I work full-time, and typically have to be available to people during regular work hours. But I'll make those offers and see what happens.

Third piece of good news is that the demand for capable chanters, including those who can sight-read the chant because they understand the modes, is definitely greater than the supply. There are a number of TLM locations that have to start with low Masses and/or compromise with untrained voices for high Masses when those voices are merely guessing at the notes.

I mean, this is part of my whole confusion. I see gaps of various kinds, which I identify as demand, but when I offer to supply them, it's turned away for reasons that are unclear. Of course I don't want to speak universally - it's not as if I've visited dozens of churches like this - but I've had these experiences a few times.

About sight-reading chant, I would never do that at any liturgy unless the priest threw me a last minute screwball. I'm prickly about the sightreading idea because of all the people who don't practice enough, maybe under the misconception that chant is simple. If a cantor or schola is not duly studying and practicing the propers, I guarantee they sound somewhere between awful and mediocre.

[Miriam_M]

I don't have specific advice, even though I'm acquainted with the problem.  I will just say that I have known more than one person in your position.  The truth is that most lay chant groups include a variety of proficiencies among their members -- even setting aside the experience of the choir director (if there is one -- a situation which is especially problematic when a group's abilities are uneven because the absence of a director creates problems of its own).  For a capable chanter, it can be frustrating to sing in a group like that, and in this time period in church music, a mixed-level group is the rule, not the exception.

I appreciate everything you're saying, though I have to echo Maximilian's attitude here. For me, frustration in a group like that doesn't stem from mixed skill, it stems from people not caring enough to practice chant, yet still wanting to sing on Sunday.

If people don't practice enough to sound good they ought to pipe down. It's about the the holy mass, not a participation trophy. That has been a recurring source of frustration for me, that many directors and priests don't make or enforce rules about chant practice.

However, the good news is this:
Chant groups need their breaks -- sometimes regularly, sometimes occasionally.  Second piece of good news for someone who truly enjoys chanting and is good at it, is that priests often want/need a cantor for single Masses such as various weekday holy days. (Sunday chant groups are not always available on weekdays, at least not in full attendance.)

Again, I have known people who have cantored solo at TLM's when the standard group is not available, which is why it can be a good idea to let priests at TLM locations know of your availability.  (Obviously you could also offer to audition in person for such priests.)

Curt Jester suggested something similar, and I'll take this on board. I work full-time, and typically have to be available to people during regular work hours. But I'll make those offers and see what happens.

Third piece of good news is that the demand for capable chanters, including those who can sight-read the chant because they understand the modes, is definitely greater than the supply. There are a number of TLM locations that have to start with low Masses and/or compromise with untrained voices for high Masses when those voices are merely guessing at the notes.

I mean, this is part of my whole confusion. I see gaps of various kinds, which I identify as demand, but when I offer to supply them, it's turned away for reasons that are unclear. Of course I don't want to speak universally - it's not as if I've visited dozens of churches like this - but I've had these experiences a few times.

About sight-reading chant, I would never do that at any liturgy unless the priest threw me a last minute screwball. I'm prickly about the sightreading idea because of all the people who don't practice enough, maybe under the misconception that chant is simple. If a cantor or schola is not duly studying and practicing the propers, I guarantee they sound somewhere between awful and mediocre.

I think what you may not realize, Severinus, and what even many choir/music directors do not see, is that for more than half of chanters -- maybe up to 70-80% -- practicing alone is fraught with problems.  Either the chanter believes he/she is singing accurately, or the singer simply doesn't know -- including when recordings are provided.  Matching notes, and especially intervals -- since neumes do not represent universal notes on a 5-line staff, is not "approximate" but exact.  I know you know that, but most members of lay chant groups do not.  They think, even insist honestly, that they have practiced sufficiently at home, but when they return to the group, it is obvious that the group (or the director, or an accomplished member) needs to provide a corrective example. The most honest and conscientious members admit this (they have, to me).

Why?  Because chant, although a special genre of music, is in fact music. And the more experienced the musician, the faster he or she will learn chant accurately and be able to hear their own mistakes.  I have sung the entire liturgical year several times over, but I am also a highly experienced vocalist. That means that this especially difficult form of music will be more reachable for me than for someone much less experienced with music in general. Hearing the modes, knowing the patterns, are crucial components.  Most chant groups consist mostly or sometimes entirely of members who can't even read notes on a 5-line staff, never mind intervals of 4ths and 5ths.

I do agree about the "participation" comment

[Severinus]

Of course you have to correct them. However, if they can sing do-re-mi relatively in tune they have the basic skillset to work out most passages for themselves, given some patience.

We may have different experiences here, because where I'm coming from, most men barely practice at all that I can tell. A couple of years ago, when I was at a larger parish, 2 to 3 men would show up to the weekday night practice, then 8 to 10 would show up on Sunday morning expecting to sing. Just saying, but I would ruthlessly expunge men from the schola who aren't good and don't practice. It's not a kindergarten.

And that's not elitist at all, imo. Maybe you agree? You get good by practicing. You don't have to be naturally gifted to practice. Practice is available to everyone. It will take a couple of years of effort to see the real fruit. But if someone doesn't feel called to that effort he shouldn't be in the schola. He can sing the hymns and the ordinary like everyone else.

That's ideally speaking of course, because in reality, in my experience, the guy who doesn't practice can readily slot in with a lot of directors. I practiced enough to become pretty darn good and now have more trouble finding a suitable place. Hence my bafflement.

[The Curt Jester]

I have a rule that if a person doesn't show to practice, he doesn't get to sing on Sundays.  Exceptions apply in certain (rare) cases.  I had one singer who was probably more musically gifted (and educated) than all of my other members save one, but she routinely showed up to practice 30 minutes to an hour late and then expected to show up on Sunday.  She could still hit the notes, but rhythm was often way off.  She's no longer in the choir. 

[Miriam_M]

I have a rule that if a person doesn't show to practice, he doesn't get to sing on Sundays.  Exceptions apply in certain (rare) cases.  I had one singer who was probably more musically gifted (and educated) than all of my other members save one, but she routinely showed up to practice 30 minutes to an hour late and then expected to show up on Sunday.  She could still hit the notes, but rhythm was often way off.  She's no longer in the choir. 

We do have a rule. It is not enforced. I believe the reason it is not enforced is that almost 100% of the rehearsal absences and tardies are male. Women rarely miss our rehearsals; if they do, they will stay silent on the Propers.

But because the director wants a minimum number of men in general (doesn't want to see them disappear entirely), the director looks the other way. Typically, most of our men come quite late to rehearsals or skip them entirely. I know we are not the only Latin Mass choir to suffer from this gender difference.

[Severinus]

I have a rule that if a person doesn't show to practice, he doesn't get to sing on Sundays.  Exceptions apply in certain (rare) cases.  I had one singer who was probably more musically gifted (and educated) than all of my other members save one, but she routinely showed up to practice 30 minutes to an hour late and then expected to show up on Sunday.  She could still hit the notes, but rhythm was often way off.  She's no longer in the choir. 

We do have a rule. It is not enforced. I believe the reason it is not enforced is that almost 100% of the rehearsal absences and tardies are male. Women rarely miss our rehearsals; if they do, they will stay silent on the Propers.

But because the director wants a minimum number of men in general (doesn't want to see them disappear entirely), the director looks the other way. Typically, most of our men come quite late to rehearsals or skip them entirely. I know we are not the only Latin Mass choir to suffer from this gender difference.

Absolutely, Miriam. The problem is worse with men. I was starting to get at that with the example from the larger parish. Most of the men there additionally want to maintain the tradition of a male-only schola (and with all due respect, I very much agree with them). But guys, maintaining tradition takes work. If you aren't showing up to practice, and the women are, what outcome do you expect?