Best discussion or book on societal morals versus "freedom".

Started by Greg, July 11, 2023, 06:18:48 AM

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Greg

The concepts of "consenting adults" and freedom has given us single mothers, sodomite weddings and only fans.

The argument is that "why should a woman not be able to sell her body?", but the obvious flip side of this is that immorality rots the society you are in.  Arguably therefore if you are free to be a shitty single mother and you bring up a crazed psychopath you should have to do jail time for your spawn's crimes and damage he does.

Has any writer ever written about this concept of liberal freedoms and where it leads society to and why it is a disaster?  I'm looking for a good book on the contradictions and problems of the "free to live my life as long as I don't hurt anyone" trope.
Contentment is knowing that you're right. Happiness is knowing that someone else is wrong.

drummerboy

The only book I've read that touches on this topic is Christopher Ferrara's Liberty: the God that Failed.  The first part of the work is an overview of the philosophers who built our modern day liberal world order, starting with Locke.
"My hope is the Father, my refuge is the Son, my protection is the Holy Spirit.  Holy Trinity, glory to You." 
"All my hope I place in you, O Mother of God; guard me under your protection."

Greg

Contentment is knowing that you're right. Happiness is knowing that someone else is wrong.

Jmartyr

Quote from: drummerboy on July 11, 2023, 08:01:14 AMThe only book I've read that touches on this topic is Christopher Ferrara's Liberty: the God that Failed.  The first part of the work is an overview of the philosophers who built our modern day liberal world order, starting with Locke.
It is an excellent book.
"If anyone is excommunicated it is not I, but the excommunicators." - Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre
" A false church cannot have a true mission." - St. Francis De Sales
" The way is open for us to deprive councils of their authority, contradict their acts freely, and profess confidently, whatever SEEMS to be true. " - Martin Luther

Jmartyr

Quote from: Greg on July 11, 2023, 08:08:50 AMThanks, I will get a copy.
You will not be disappointed. Though the history of the Civil War proved to be a bit tedious at times.
"If anyone is excommunicated it is not I, but the excommunicators." - Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre
" A false church cannot have a true mission." - St. Francis De Sales
" The way is open for us to deprive councils of their authority, contradict their acts freely, and profess confidently, whatever SEEMS to be true. " - Martin Luther

Aethel

Oswald Spengler's "The Decline of the West"

Very complicated work, but basically he argues that civilizations / nations tend to hold ideas that legitimize it's governance, and at a certain point the ideas get exhausted / people become cynical to them, so rather than live their life in pursuit of a national / spiritual narrative, they live their life in pursuit of their own temporal pleasures with a shadow of that original spiritual / national narrative (as the idea that legitimized their behavior before is obsolete, so what else is there to do but my own self interest?), and gradually over time, this creates a lot of infighting as people among families / tribes, as people try to assert their own socially conflicting self-interest, even to the point of demagoguery; this leads to mass decay and self-destruction of the institutions. Eventually, at a point where the lines between commerce and the public are blurred, a person with enough will to power comes in with strong autocratic force to try to salvage remnants of the original ideas which lasts a couple hundred years or so before that autocratic force runs out and the nation finally dies.

He was from the early 20th century but he predicted America would begin to collapse around 2012 or so.


I think the only counter points are that technology has evolved so fast that it might cause a permanent stagnation of the West, and that his "empirical analysis" of civilizations are really not as uniform as he likes to paint it as.

drummerboy

Quote from: Jmartyr on July 11, 2023, 03:30:59 PM
Quote from: Greg on July 11, 2023, 08:08:50 AMThanks, I will get a copy.
You will not be disappointed. Though the history of the Civil War proved to be a bit tedious at times.

Well it is written by a lawyer after all, it's part of his job lol
"My hope is the Father, my refuge is the Son, my protection is the Holy Spirit.  Holy Trinity, glory to You." 
"All my hope I place in you, O Mother of God; guard me under your protection."

james03

"But he that doth not believe, is already judged: because he believeth not in the name of the only begotten Son of God (Jn 3:18)."

"All sorrow leads to the foot of the Cross.  Weep for your sins."

"Although He should kill me, I will trust in Him"

drummerboy

And if you didn't already see, the latest edition of the Remnant featured a book review of Why the Reformation Still Matters, by Brad Gregory.  From the review it seems it should touch on this topic, if not from a strictly Catholic sense, at least historical.
"My hope is the Father, my refuge is the Son, my protection is the Holy Spirit.  Holy Trinity, glory to You." 
"All my hope I place in you, O Mother of God; guard me under your protection."

Bonaventure

Quote from: drummerboy on July 11, 2023, 08:01:14 AMThe only book I've read that touches on this topic is Christopher Ferrara's Liberty: the God that Failed.  The first part of the work is an overview of the philosophers who built our modern day liberal world order, starting with Locke.

A great book.

The Cult of Liberty by Most Rev. Donald Sanborn is essentially the same, albeit in short form:

 http://www.traditionalmass.org/articles/article.php?id=13

I would also wholeheartedly recommend this article.

TradGranny

Quote from: Bonaventure on September 02, 2023, 02:55:22 AM
Quote from: drummerboy on July 11, 2023, 08:01:14 AMThe only book I've read that touches on this topic is Christopher Ferrara's Liberty: the God that Failed.  The first part of the work is an overview of the philosophers who built our modern day liberal world order, starting with Locke.

A great book.

The Cult of Liberty by Most Rev. Donald Sanborn is essentially the same, albeit in short form:

 http://www.traditionalmass.org/articles/article.php?id=13

I would also wholeheartedly recommend this article.

Wow! Thanks for this. Americanist heresy, Freemasonry, Liberalism.
To have courage for whatever comes in life - everything lies in that.
Saint Teresa of Avila

Bonaventure

It's a great article. I hope it serves you well.

Michael Wilson

Also "They Have Uncrowned Him, From Liberalism to Apostasy, The Conciliar Tragedy", explains why Dignitatis Humanae, the Conciliar document on Religious Liberty set the groundwork for the apostasy in the Church.
"The World Must Conform to Our Lord and not He to it." Rev. Dennis Fahey CSSP

"My brothers, all of you, if you are condemned to see the triumph of evil, never applaud it. Never say to evil: you are good; to decadence: you are progess; to death: you are life. Sanctify yourselves in the times wherein God has placed you; bewail the evils and the disorders which God tolerates; oppose them with the energy of your works and your efforts, your life uncontaminated by error, free from being led astray, in such a way that having lived here below, united with the Spirit of the Lord, you will be admitted to be made but one with Him forever and ever: But he who is joined to the Lord is one in spirit." Cardinal Pie of Potiers

Heinrich

Libido Dominandi by E Michael Jones. I haven't read it, but the thesis is that sexual liberation is a tool for political control.

There is also Degenerate Moderns.
Schaff Recht mir Gott und führe meine Sache gegen ein unheiliges Volk . . .   .                          
Lex Orandi, lex credendi, lex vivendi.
"Die Welt sucht nach Ehre, Ansehen, Reichtum, Vergnügen; die Heiligen aber suchen Demütigung, Verachtung, Armut, Abtötung und Buße." --Ausschnitt von der Geschichte des Lebens St. Bennos.

Mushroom