What are Rebuttals to the "Socialization" Problem of Homeschooling?

[Mushroom]

I always hear the arguments against homeschooling like your kids won't learn socialization but having been to public school, I don't really agree because you're not allowed to talk during class and you have bullying. You have social cliques (girls can be really mean) and social media can be used to shame unpopular classmates. When I was in elementary school, I would spend most of my time during recess just reading or talking to a few people but I'm still very introverted. Also, most of my peers had divorced parents or were raised by single moms.

Or the fact that many people don't want to spend all day with their kids and would rather just ship them off to school so they can relax (which I understand) but I think it's a sacrifice on the parents' part to teach them. I just know if I send my kids to public school, their peers will negatively influence them no matter what I do.

[ChairmanJoeAintMyPrez]

No rebuttal is necessary.  Very little socialization occurs in government schools.  Apart from lunch and recess, the children are either queuing for something, running between classes, or stuck at a desk, not allowed to speak unless answering a question.

What does occur is that children are programmed to be docile factory and office workers, and creativity and independent thinking are praised only in art and composition classes, if ever.

[Greg]

Nothing wrong with homeschooling but the lack of socialization is going to arise due to the self selection towards families who want to cut themselves off from others.  And those types are certainly attracted to home schooling programs.  But even in regular schools the same issue can occur.

My son went to a local grammar school with a boy called Joseph from a strict baptist or anabaptist Christian family.  Not sure what exactly.  The kind of people who would typically homeschool their children.  The boy was bullied a bit as he was clever and studious but since my son is a massive Trump and Putin supporter and they are both homophobic and knew their Bible and had those things in common anyone who tried to bully Joseph got their face punched in by Maxim.

But despite all that, and being friends at school Joseph wasn't allowed to visit our house or my son his house in the 7 years they went to that grammar school.  So Joseph is pretty held back socially now.  Nothing to do with homeschooling and everything to do with having parents who want to be separated from the world.

[The Curt Jester]

Ever interact with a typical public school kid these days?  They have no clue what socialization is.  For that matter, the private school kids are pretty bad at it too.

[drummerboy]

I'd say no rebuttal is necessary either.  Let your mentally normal, healthy children be the rebuttal! People will notice.  I experienced it myself, when a coworker was shocked I was homeschooled yet not a social deviant lol. 

 If you do want a rebuttal though, remind them that for most of history children were NOT crammed into schools with their peers, but associated with their family of elder parents and siblings, and younger siblings.  Yes, there would be other children their age in the village, but they weren't stuck with them all day because they were too busy helping their family with work or chores.  They could play with them "after hours" of course, no different than your homeschooling kids can attend boys' group meetings, or church/homeschooling socials, etc.

[diaduit]

It actually doesn't matter what you say, these one's that are concerned about socialisation don't actually give one fig for your child and will form a negative opinion anyway and they would never know the word socialisation unless they read it on a negative comment on facebook.

That being said I just say.......football, swimming, music lessons, homeschool meet ups, summer camps, friends and neighbours, family, cousins, get togethers like funerals and weddings, mine go with me. The homeschool meet ups are generally very active and we have field trips also, I had to curb some of them as I was never off the road.  Ask them what extra socialisation to they get in a classroom for 6 hours a day and a 15 min break and a half hour for lunch which is taken up with eating and rules? 

[Geremia]

The family (not an artificial society like a club, school grade level, etc.) is the foundational unit of society. We learn social skills that best in family life (e.g., at dinnertime).

[moneil]

There are as many opportunities, I believe, for homeschool kids to be socialized as there are for kids in public or private school, unless one lives on a ranch in Montana or Wyoming and the closest neighbor is 50 miles away.  Many families I know who homeschool belong to a homeschool group or co-op where families get together for field trips and other activities.  Libraries have story times (and no, NOT with drag queens) and activities like chess clubs.  There are all kinds of sports clubs (soccer, gymnastics, little league baseball, grid kids American football, equestrian clubs, cycling clubs, etc.).  Some states (Idaho is one) allow homeschoolers to also take some classes at the public school that might be difficult for parents to teach on their own, such as metal and wood shop, lab sciences, and music.  There is the 4-H program and Junior Master Gardeners.  Most of these programs are reliant on parent volunteers, so there is pleanty of opportunity for parents to also be engaged with their kids and to make sure the program is suitable.

I don't know what is common in traditionalist chapels, but most parishes require some participation in their catechism classes by kids preparing for First Communion and Confirmation, another opportunity to socialize with peers in the same church.

[KreKre]

Yeah, when I was at public school as a child, we were forbidden to have any conversations during class. The teacher would yell: "QUIET! STOP TALKING!" The only socialization took place at breaks, and then it wasn't high quality at all, because the breaks were short and most of the kids disliked each other. Most of my early childhood friends were not my classmates, but kids I played with after school.

So this socialization argument is nonsense.

Besides, classrooms with 20-30 children are a very recent invention, it's younger than the French Revolution. It was invented in Prussia in late 18th and early 19th century, primarily by Humboldt and Hecker. So, it's just over 200 years old. What about all those centuries before that? Children were not crammed into a classroom and education was not industrialized. Parents educated young children, and trades were formed through apprenticeship. And for young children of wealthy parents who were to receive a more comprehensive education, it was mostly private lessons with a tutor, and classrooms only existed in higher education.

[Obrien]

The other problem with being socialized in a public-school classroom is that the only people you are socializing with are your peers.

That simply isn't how real life works. I can't imagine walking into a store and saying, well I can only be waited on by someone who is 6 months older or 6 months younger than me! Ludicrous!

I find homeschooled children generally tend to be more social and incredibly welcoming. I am sure I am biased. What is everyone else's opinion? Maybe a poll?!

[Greg]

I go to a mass with lots of home schooled children.  They're certainly intelligent, but they're noticeably more noisy and poorly disciplined than school children, on average.  School children are used to taking orders from strangers (not just their parents).

Precociousness, rude comments to even the priest, like calling him poo-face.  That comes from living in a bubble.

I work the kitchen after mass where there are kettles of boiling water, hot things in the oven.  The kids come in and I have to tell them to leave.  It's always the homeschooled kids in there and they are always challenging authority.  That can be a plus.

On the whole homeschooling is going to encourage non conformity, quirkiness, autistic traits.

The kids with zero or few brothers and sisters usually display this in spades.

[Heinrich]

In my almost 20 years as a trad and near 30 as a public school(USA) teacher, both sides have extremely erroneous biases. I have seen total social retards in school, and ignorant, undisciplined kids from homeschool families. On the flip side, I will never cease to be motivated by my students who maintain A(1) level work in multiple AP classes, play sports, work, etc. As well, young trads who display mature courtesies, have a love for Faith, and operate well in the world, e.g. driver's licenses, pt jobs, etc. The absolute most bewildering pet peeve of mine is home schooling families who inflate their intellectual capacities, lack charity, and proceed to demonstrate illiteracy and non functional abilities otherwise. This is not status quo, but indeed it's been a thing.

[Michael Wilson]

The "socialization" argument is one that is easy to make, but difficult to objectively demonstrate. The best and most well adjusted children I have encountered have been among home schooled families that practice their faith at home, and whose parents are faithful to their duties as parents in giving their children a solid religious formation and who take the time to train their children to be polite, well behaved, socially interactive, and above all virtuous.
Our public school system teaches kids knowledge about the world from a purely materialistic and agnostic viewpoint; it teaches children to follow the rules and to outwardly conform to socially accepted standards of behavior, in order that they may obtain material success once they enter the work-force. But it does not teach them what is their ultimate purpose in life, and how to obtain it. Working in a public school system, I see that this is a great failure of the system. The children themselves really do not see the point to the whole process and how empty it is.

[TradGranny]

There are as many opportunities, I believe, for homeschool kids to be socialized as there are for kids in public or private school, unless one lives on a ranch in Montana or Wyoming and the closest neighbor is 50 miles away.  Many families I know who homeschool belong to a homeschool group or co-op where families get together for field trips and other activities.  Libraries have story times (and no, NOT with drag queens) and activities like chess clubs.  There are all kinds of sports clubs (soccer, gymnastics, little league baseball, grid kids American football, equestrian clubs, cycling clubs, etc.).  Some states (Idaho is one) allow homeschoolers to also take some classes at the public school that might be difficult for parents to teach on their own, such as metal and wood shop, lab sciences, and music.  There is the 4-H program and Junior Master Gardeners.  Most of these programs are reliant on parent volunteers, so there is pleanty of opportunity for parents to also be engaged with their kids and to make sure the program is suitable.

I don't know what is common in traditionalist chapels, but most parishes require some participation in their catechism classes by kids preparing for First Communion and Confirmation, another opportunity to socialize with peers in the same church.

Yes, one of our daughters-in-law homeschooled and she tried different homeschool groups who have outings to local parks. She found that every group was different. She hand-picked the children and their mothers as she observed the children playing and in speaking to the mothers. She then followed up with getting togther to the ones she liked. Her children have excelled academically and have many friendships.

[drummerboy]

I go to a mass with lots of home schooled children.  They're certainly intelligent, but they're noticeably more noisy and poorly disciplined than school children, on average.  School children are used to taking orders from strangers (not just their parents).

Precociousness, rude comments to even the priest, like calling him poo-face.  That comes from living in a bubble.

I work the kitchen after mass where there are kettles of boiling water, hot things in the oven.  The kids come in and I have to tell them to leave.  It's always the homeschooled kids in there and they are always challenging authority.  That can be a plus.

On the whole homeschooling is going to encourage non conformity, quirkiness, autistic traits.

The kids with zero or few brothers and sisters usually display this in spades.

Alot of that sounds more like parents of large families giving up on discipline after a few kids, rather than homeschooling only.