Author Topic: 5 good reasons to become (or remain!) a Catholic Christian.  (Read 518 times)

Offline Xavier

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I read two articles recently about Seminarians going through a period of trial in their Faith. One was over on CathInfo, the other was on One Peter Five:

A diocesan seminarian who struggled because of the Crisis: https://onepeterfive.com/seminarian-is-there-any-reason-why-i-should-remain-catholic/

So I wrote this article, for all who may be going through trials in their Faith, and also looking to evangelize non-Catholics to the Faith. 5 simple reasons. (links in the original)

"5 good reasons to become (or remain!) a Catholic Christian"

"Are you going through a time of trial in your Faith? Are you wondering if it is all worth it after all? Absolutely, it is worth it! There is a rich reward in Heaven waiting for you if only you persevere till the end. But you cannot do it on your own, you need the Grace of God, as we all do. Here are 5 good reasons why everyone should become, or remain, a Catholic Christian, designed especially for those struggling through a period of difficulty or dryness in their prayer life, a “dark night of the soul”.

I. Eucharistic Miracles – Signs and Proofs of Christ’s Divine Power to miraculously transubstantiate:

A non-Christian friend of mine called Eucharistic Miracles “the most powerful evidence for (Catholic) Christianity”. It is easy for us non-skeptics to understand why. For skeptics and doubters, these miracles serve as supernatural signs such that “in order that the submission of our faith should be in accordance with reason, it was God’s will that there should be linked to the internal assistance of the Holy Spirit external indications of His Revelation, that is to say divine acts, and first and foremost miracles and prophecies, which clearly demonstrating as they do the Omnipotence and Infinite Knowledge of God, are the most certain signs of revelation and are suited to the understanding of all.” (First Vatican Council, Dogmatic Constitution on the Catholic Faith: Chapter 3, On Faith).

Christ worked the wondrous Eucharistic Miracle of Lanciano in response to a poor Priest struggling through his own dark night. He wondered if Christ really was present in the Eucharist, as Christ had promised in the Gospel. In His Mercy, the Good Lord chose to answer the doubts of this “doubting Thomas” with a Eucharistic Miracle. It reminds us of His Post-Resurrection Apparition to St. Thomas.

The next time you are at Holy Mass, or Eucharistic Adoration, just remember the Living God is truly present in the Host. Some believe because they have seen. But blessed are those who believe even without seeing, as Our Lord said. Believing without seeing will merit a great reward in Heaven.

II. Marian Apparitions – Heavenly Reminders from Our Loving Mother of Her Maternal Presence

Non-Catholics, including Non-Catholic Christians, have become Catholic Christians thanks to Our Lady of Fatima’s Public Miracle of the Sun. 70,000 astonished eyewitnesses saw the Sun move and their clothes dry. Even the secular press reported it. These astonishing miracles do not happen outside the Catholic Faith. They are manifest evidence of a Supernatural Power. Fatima has been called the “Greatest Public Miracle since the Resurrection of Jesus”. It is a Great Grace God gave us!

To doubters and sceptics who try to explain away Fatima, a former Russian Orthodox Christian puts it like this: “The thing that initially triggered my move towards Catholicism is Our Lady of Fatima. One of my friends was telling me about the fruits Fatima had on her own life. She read what the Theotokos had said to the children about modesty, and it caused her to become more modest in her dress. She also told me about how her priest had visited Fatima and when he came back, he preached a fiery sermon about the reality of hell. I had been told by my fellow Orthodox Christians that Fatima was at best a hoax and at worst demonic, so I decided to investigate Fatima for myself.

The view that Fatima is simply a hoax cannot be the case. It has a miracle connected with it that was witnessed by thousands of people, many of whom were atheists who came to the event specifically to refute what the children were saying. Skeptics have argued that it was simply a mass hallucination, but Christians should be skeptical of this argument. Skeptics of the resurrection of Jesus often respond to the fact that there were 500 witnesses by pointing to Fatima. If Fatima was a mass hallucination, so could the resurrection of Jesus have been. No other mass hallucination has ever been recorded though. In reality, Fatima was actually the most seen public miracle since the time of the exodus about 3500 years ago.” Fatima is God’s Mercy revealed to a hurting fallen world.

Every day, as we pray Our Lady’s Rosary, we should thank God for the Grace of having been born Catholics, or having become such later on. Our Catholic Faith is the most Priceless Grace of our life!

Our Lady of Guadalupe’s Miraculous Tilma and Her marvelous conversion of 9 Million Souls is yet another miraculous proof of the Catholic Faith. Our Lady is one of the Most Successful Evangelists!

“Several trustworthy contemporary writers note that one missionary, a Flemish Franciscan named Peter of Ghent, baptized with his own hands over 1,000,000 Mexicans! “Who will not recognize the Spirit of God in moving so many millions to enter the kingdom of Christ,” wrote Fr. Anticoli, S.J., “and when we consider that there occurred no portent or other supernatural event … to attract such multitudes, other than the apparitions of the Virgin, we may state with assurance that it was the Vision of the Queen of the Apostles that called the Indians to the Faith.”

III. The Miraculous Shroud of Turin – Powerful Evidence of Our Blessed Lord’s Glorious Resurrection.

We cannot forget the Miraculous Proofs Our Lord gave of His own Resurrection – something that should console and edify all doubting Christians. Our Lord is unique among all people who have ever existed. Everyone else died and remained dead. He alone died and gloriously Rose again. There were more than 500 eyewitnesses to that historical fact. But the Shroud of Turin is a miraculous relic that gives even visible evidence of it. A recent study showed only a great burst of energy, more powerful than any laser on the market today, could have produced the Image of the Holy Face on the Shroud.

“The ultraviolet light necessary to [simulate the image] “exceeds the maximum power released by all ultraviolet light sources available today,” says Di Lazzaro. It would require “pulses having durations shorter than one forty-billionth of a second, and intensities on the order of several billion watts.” If the most advanced technologies available in the 21st century could not produce a facsimile of the shroud image, he reasons, how could it have been executed by a medieval forger?”

IV. 2000 Years of Saints and Martyrs for Jesus or His Church leading up to 2.5 Billion Christians.

Do you believe that Christianity is perishing, over and done-for? It is not. Maybe it’s time to broaden our outlook to Universal Christendom, to Global Christianity. There are, as of 2021, more than 2.5 Billion professing Christians in the world. Islam is a distant 2nd at less than 2 billion. Christianity is not going anywhere. It is going to remain the world’s most popular religion for a long time to come. Catholic Christianity leads all other Christian denominations combined at roughly 1.3 billion.

Do you think you’re having a hard time for your Faith? Well, according to Open Doors, some 340 million Christians experience high level of persecution for Christ. We cannot forget our brothers and sisters who are suffering for Christ’s sake. We should pray for and console one another, so that we can all prevail amidst our suffering. Through the Cross, we have victory.

We should respect all suffering Christians, as we respect soldiers who die for our country. But once more, Catholic Christianity has unique Saint-Martyrs like St. Padre Pio.

A Saint who lived crucified with Christ, who miraculously and mystically bore the Wounds of Christ like other Saints and Mystics going back to St. Catherine of Sienna and St. Francis of Assisi, St. Padre Pio suffered “White Martyrdom” like St. John the Apostle. He suffered more than enough to be a martyr, and his voluntary acceptance of suffering gained great graces for the Church.

St. Paul mentions a similar principle in Col 1:24. Where are the St. Padre Pios of today? It’s your chance and your choice, to be a spiritual son or daughter of St. Pio, and become like him.

V. The Crown of Glory waiting for you in Heaven. This Crown is granted to those who persevere.

St. Padre Pio was known for praying 150 to 250 decades of the Rosary during the day! 250 decades! No wonder he became a Saint. And he persevered in doing this for over 50 years. If you want to become a Saint, as St. Montfort also teaches, you can do so by praying the Rosary like he did.

St. Montfort: “Secondly, we should do this so that we ourselves may receive three crowns from Jesus and Mary. The first is a crown of merit during our lifetime, the second, a crown of peace at our death, and the third, a crown of glory in Heaven.

If you say the Rosary faithfully until death, I do assure you that, in spite of the gravity of your sins “you shall receive a never fading crown of glory.” (1 Pet 5:4) … “(Let) no man take thy crown”: take care that your crown is not stolen by somebody who has been more faithful than you in saying the Holy Rosary. It is “thy crown”—Almighty God has chosen it for you and you have already won it halfway by means of the Rosaries that you have said well. Unfortunately someone else may get ahead of you in the race—someone who has worked harder and who has been more faithful might possibly win the crown that ought to be yours, paying for it by his Rosaries and good works. All this could really happen if you stand still on the beautiful path where you have been running so well: “You did run well.”“Who hath hindered you?” Who is it who will have prevented you from having the Rosary crown? None other than the enemies of the Holy Rosary who are so numerous.”

Our Lord said, “Be thou faithful until death: and I will give thee the Crown of Life” (Apoc 2:10). Claim that Promise! Look forward to it in joyful hope and eager anticipation! If we are faithful unto death, Our Lord will, according to His Promise, give us the Crown of Life!

That should make us happy! We have something glorious to look forward to. Let us complete the 9 First Fridays to the Sacred Heart, the 5 First Saturdays to the Immaculate Heart, the Great Double Novena to the Twin Hearts together, pray the Rosary every day, wear the Scapular, and then we know that we will die in Grace, with the Sacraments of the Church, receive Final Perseverance and go to Heaven. We ought to live a blessed and happy life expecting this!

And should we evangelize? Of course! It is well said, and piously believed, that each soul we help bring to Jesus will be like a beautiful jewel on our eternal crown! What a thought! It should motivate us to try and bring multitudes to Jesus in the course of our lifetime. Each good work done with faith in Christ, by the Grace of God, merits an eternal reward. Truly, we are so blessed!

https://rosarycrusadingarmytoendabortion.home.blog/2021/05/21/5-good-reasons-to-become-or-remain-a-catholic-christian/
Please join my Rosary Crusade to end Abortion: https://rosarycrusadingarmytoendabortion.home.blog/ Pray the 1000 Hail Marys Rosary Frequently. You can Save 1000 Souls!

Offer your Life to Jesus and Mary: TEXT OF THE LIFE OFFERING, adapted: Dear Lord Jesus, before the Holy Trinity, Our Heavenly Mother, and the whole Heavenly Court, united with Your most Precious Blood and Your Sacrifice on Calvary, We hereby Offer our whole Lives to the Intention of Your Sacred Heart and to the Immaculate Heart of Mary. Together with our life, we place at Your disposal all Holy Masses, all our Holy Communions, all Rosaries, all acts of consecration, all our good deeds, all our sacrifices, and the suffering of our entire life for the Adoration and Supplication of the Holy Trinity, for Unity in our Holy Mother Church, for the Holy Father, Pope Francis the First; and for His Holiness Pope Benedict XVI. For His Eminence Patriarch Kirill of Moscow, His Excellency Metropolitan Hilarion, as well as His Eminence Patriarch Bartholomew of Constantinople, that they may re-unite their flocks with the Roman Catholic Church, and there may soon be but One Fold and One Shepherd. For all the 220+ Cardinals of the Holy Roman Church, for all 6000+ Bishops of the Universal Church that they may be true Apostles and Shepherds; and for the 400,000+ Priests, the 700,000+ Nuns, 50,000+ Monks, 100,000+ seminarians, that they may all become the Saints the Divine Will wishes them to be; for all the 1.35 Billion Members of the Church, the Millions of Catholic Catechumens and Children to be born and baptized in this Decade; we pray for good Priestly and Religious Vocations, for All Lay Apostolates, and All Souls until the end of the world. O my Jesus, please accept our life Sacrifice and our offerings and give us Your grace that we may all persevere obediently until death. Amen." https://marianapostolate.com/life-offering/

"Mother of God, Co-Redemptrix of the world, pray for us" [Promise: 1000 Souls from Purgatory]"This short prayer, this insistent prayer, every time it is said, sets free from Purgatory 1000 Souls, who reach the Eternal Joy, the Eternal Light"(!). http://www.jesusmariasite.org/jesus-pray-my-children-that-the-fifth-marian-dogma-be-proclaimed/
 
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Offline TheSaintsAreComing

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Re: 5 good reasons to become (or remain!) a Catholic Christian.
« Reply #1 on: June 06, 2021, 05:18:25 AM »
Hi Xavier - this post seems to be aimed at someone like me. I will respond with some thoughts of my own regarding the first 3 points, since I don’t know if 4 and 5 are supposed to be evidence

Regarding Eucharistic miracles and Marian apparitions, a non-Catholic Christian could cite this passage from the beginning of Deuteronomy 13:

If a prophet, or one who foretells by dreams, appears among you and announces to you a sign or wonder, 2 and if the sign or wonder spoken of takes place, and the prophet says, “Let us follow other gods” (gods you have not known) “and let us worship them,” 3 you must not listen to the words of that prophet or dreamer. The Lord your God is testing you to find out whether you love him with all your heart and with all your soul.

The interesting thing about this passage is that it doesn’t specify if the miracle is performed by God or some infernal spirit, so it might be that God performs miracles such that it may appear to confirm the infidel prophet, but that God is testing to see if His people will remain true to Him, and not deviate from true worship and doctrine

Now undoubtly some people will convert because of these miracles - just as some Catholics convert to Charismatic churches because of healings or an experience of directly encountering the Holy Spirit. I don’t think either case is sound if one should follow the counsel from Deuteronomy 13.


Regarding the Shroud of Turin - how does that prove Christ’s resurrection? If it’s an authentic relic, at best that would prove Christ’s human existence and that He died and was buried. But how does it in itself prove His resurrection?
Fides et ratio

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Offline Jayne

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Re: 5 good reasons to become (or remain!) a Catholic Christian.
« Reply #2 on: June 06, 2021, 10:41:50 AM »
Hi Xavier - this post seems to be aimed at someone like me. I will respond with some thoughts of my own regarding the first 3 points, since I don’t know if 4 and 5 are supposed to be evidence

For what it's worth, my reaction as a convert to Catholicism was that nothing Xavier posted resonated with my experience of becoming Christian and Catholic.

I was born and raised in a Jewish family and stopped practicing Judaism in my early teens.  At 16 I became a Fundamentalist Christian.  At 21 I became Catholic.  In my 50s I deepened my Catholic faith by discovering the traditional Mass and devotional practices.  Miracles, apparitions, and promises of future heavenly rewards played no part in any of these experiences.

The one thing that moved me was a desire to come closer to God.  My first encounter with Christianity, among the Fundamentalists, although it exposed me to many errors, also taught me about a personal God who loved me and wanted to be in a relationship with me.  Later, when investigating Catholicism, I attended Mass and felt drawn to Christ's presence in the Eucharist.  Much later, stumbling upon traditional Catholicism, I found an even richer and more beautiful expression of faith.

I don't know if the sort of thing that Xavier was writing about makes a difference for most people, but it didn't for me.  It's not that I disbelieve in miracles and apparitions.  They just don't have much impact on my faith.
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Offline clau clau

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Would you like to shake hands with Pope 1 or Pope 2 -
 me (inspired by Dr Seuss) see: https://seuss.fandom.com/wiki/Thing_One_and_Thing_Two

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Offline Jayne

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Re: 5 good reasons to become (or remain!) a Catholic Christian.
« Reply #4 on: June 06, 2021, 11:06:09 AM »
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pascal%27s_wager#:~:text=Pascal's%20wager%20is%20an%20argument,either%20exists%20or%20does%20not.

I never found this at all compelling either.  Before I was a Christian, I thought it would be better to go to hell than be in heaven with the sort of god who would send people to hell.
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Offline TheSaintsAreComing

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Re: 5 good reasons to become (or remain!) a Catholic Christian.
« Reply #5 on: June 06, 2021, 11:10:20 AM »
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pascal%27s_wager#:~:text=Pascal's%20wager%20is%20an%20argument,either%20exists%20or%20does%20not.

I never found this at all compelling either.  Before I was a Christian, I thought it would be better to go to hell than be in heaven with the sort of god who would send people to hell.

Thanks for your replies, Jayne

If I might ask, what made you change your mind on this? I was honestly never comfortable with Hell, regarding that people who seemingly never knew about God or what He wanted could end up there. Over time I just grew to accept it, figuring God knew better than me and it would all make sense in the afterlife
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Offline Jayne

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Re: 5 good reasons to become (or remain!) a Catholic Christian.
« Reply #6 on: June 06, 2021, 11:20:26 AM »
If I might ask, what made you change your mind on this? I was honestly never comfortable with Hell, regarding that people who seemingly never knew about God or what He wanted could end up there. Over time I just grew to accept it, figuring God knew better than me and it would all make sense in the afterlife

I realized that God does not send people to hell.  Everyone in hell has freely chosen to be there.  God wants everyone to be with Himself, but gives people the freedom to reject Him.

I have not figured out the details of how that works in the case of people who do not know about Him.  It would not surprise me if it is something that I am not even capable of understanding in this life.  But I know that God is completely just and completely merciful.
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Online Vetus Ordo

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Re: 5 good reasons to become (or remain!) a Catholic Christian.
« Reply #7 on: June 06, 2021, 11:40:41 AM »
Regarding the Shroud of Turin - how does that prove Christ’s resurrection? If it’s an authentic relic, at best that would prove Christ’s human existence and that He died and was buried. But how does it in itself prove His resurrection?

Because of the miraculous formation of the image on the Shroud.

"The image was not formed by dyes, chemicals, vapors or scorching. The only known explanation for the formation of the image is an intense burst of vacuum ultraviolet radiation (equivalent to the output of 14,000 excimer lasers) emitted from every three-dimensional point of the body in the Shroud.

The combination of the above evidence is exceedingly difficult to explain in any way other than the burial cloth is that of Jesus of Nazareth. Moreover, the formation of the image by an intense outburst of vacuum ultraviolet radiation is suggestive of a resurrection event similar to that described in the Gospels. The above scientific evidence requires that a new carbon-dating test be done which observes the standard protocols for sampling. When these protocols are observed, it would be surprising if the result was not similar to the results of the four new dating methods mentioned above — approximately A.D. 50. If this result is obtained, it would indicate that the Shroud of Turin is very likely the burial shroud of Jesus Christ with evidence suggestive of His resurrection in light." - In, Shroud of Turin, Evidence of Jesus' Resurrection?.
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Offline TheSaintsAreComing

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Re: 5 good reasons to become (or remain!) a Catholic Christian.
« Reply #8 on: June 06, 2021, 12:15:32 PM »
Regarding the Shroud of Turin - how does that prove Christ’s resurrection? If it’s an authentic relic, at best that would prove Christ’s human existence and that He died and was buried. But how does it in itself prove His resurrection?

Because of the miraculous formation of the image on the Shroud.

"The image was not formed by dyes, chemicals, vapors or scorching. The only known explanation for the formation of the image is an intense burst of vacuum ultraviolet radiation (equivalent to the output of 14,000 excimer lasers) emitted from every three-dimensional point of the body in the Shroud.

The combination of the above evidence is exceedingly difficult to explain in any way other than the burial cloth is that of Jesus of Nazareth. Moreover, the formation of the image by an intense outburst of vacuum ultraviolet radiation is suggestive of a resurrection event similar to that described in the Gospels. The above scientific evidence requires that a new carbon-dating test be done which observes the standard protocols for sampling. When these protocols are observed, it would be surprising if the result was not similar to the results of the four new dating methods mentioned above — approximately A.D. 50. If this result is obtained, it would indicate that the Shroud of Turin is very likely the burial shroud of Jesus Christ with evidence suggestive of His resurrection in light." - In, Shroud of Turin, Evidence of Jesus' Resurrection?.

Ok, I thought the argument that you would need several lasers was just used against the shroud being a fake made from just simple material and not an actual shroud for a corpse

Is there any mention of great lights/ultraviolet radiation being part of Christ’s resurrection? Just checking the Gospel online, the only light mentioned seems to be from the Angel/Angels in or around the empty tomb
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- Psalm 100 (101) in Swedish
 

Offline Xavier

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Re: 5 good reasons to become (or remain!) a Catholic Christian.
« Reply #9 on: June 07, 2021, 07:02:51 AM »
Thanks, everyone, for the responses. Different people may find different things convincing. For some, it is an answered prayer. For others, the Life of Our Lord Jesus Christ. For others, some Miracle He worked, like His Resurection, or an Eucharistic Miracle. For still others, something in the Life of Our Mother Mary, or some Miracle She has worked, like at Fatima, Lepanto or Gaudalupe. All are good.

And there may be many things too, like some posters on this thread have mentioned. For some, it is being convinced of God's Goodness.

Hi TSAC. Well, the first 3 points were meant to be evidence, the last 2 to be encouragements.

Regarding Eucharistic Miracles, would you agree that a dead man could never work such things? For us Christians, it is a clear sign that this could only have come from Our Risen Lord, the Living God. Our Lord said in the Gospel He would give His Flesh for food and He has.

Regarding what you cited from Deuteronomy, God Himself had confirmed the Mission of the Prophet Moses through Miracles. After He did this, God warned them not to follow false prophets. Our Lord never told anyone to go after other gods, but declared He was the Christ of the Lord, the Promised Messiah, foretold in the Scriptures. God would not work miracles to confirm a false Messiah. He worked Miracles both in the Gospel, and works Miracles still observable today, to confirm that Jesus Christ, His Son, Our Lord was the Truth.

In Eucharistic Miracles, Scientific Analysis concludes the Flesh is Real Flesh, from a Living Heart, and the Blood is True Blood of Type AB.

Quote
"In 1970-'71 and taken up again partly in 1981 there took place a scientific investigation by the most illustrious scientist Prof. Odoardo Linoli, eminent Professor in Anatomy and Pathological Histology and in Chemistry and Clinical Microscopy. He was assisted by Prof. Ruggero Bertelli of the University of Siena.

The analyses were conducted with absolute and unquestionable scientific precision and they were documented with a series of microscopic photographs.
These analyses sustained the following conclusions:

The Flesh is real Flesh. The Blood is real Blood.

The Flesh and the Blood belong to the human species.

The Flesh consists of the muscular tissue of the heart.

In the Flesh we see present in section: the myocardium, the endocardium, the vagus nerve and also the left ventricle of the heart for the large thickness of the myocardium.

The Flesh is a "HEART" complete in its essential structure.

The Flesh and the Blood have the same blood-type: AB (Blood-type identical to that which Prof. Baima Bollone uncovered in the Holy Shroud of Turin)."
http://www.therealpresence.org/eucharst/mir/lanciano.html

Thanks, Vetus, for posting that on the Shroud. As to your last question, TSAC, for Christians, it is to be expected that the Resurrection of the Saviour would have been an act of tremendous Power and Energy on the part of God. God Bless.
Please join my Rosary Crusade to end Abortion: https://rosarycrusadingarmytoendabortion.home.blog/ Pray the 1000 Hail Marys Rosary Frequently. You can Save 1000 Souls!

Offer your Life to Jesus and Mary: TEXT OF THE LIFE OFFERING, adapted: Dear Lord Jesus, before the Holy Trinity, Our Heavenly Mother, and the whole Heavenly Court, united with Your most Precious Blood and Your Sacrifice on Calvary, We hereby Offer our whole Lives to the Intention of Your Sacred Heart and to the Immaculate Heart of Mary. Together with our life, we place at Your disposal all Holy Masses, all our Holy Communions, all Rosaries, all acts of consecration, all our good deeds, all our sacrifices, and the suffering of our entire life for the Adoration and Supplication of the Holy Trinity, for Unity in our Holy Mother Church, for the Holy Father, Pope Francis the First; and for His Holiness Pope Benedict XVI. For His Eminence Patriarch Kirill of Moscow, His Excellency Metropolitan Hilarion, as well as His Eminence Patriarch Bartholomew of Constantinople, that they may re-unite their flocks with the Roman Catholic Church, and there may soon be but One Fold and One Shepherd. For all the 220+ Cardinals of the Holy Roman Church, for all 6000+ Bishops of the Universal Church that they may be true Apostles and Shepherds; and for the 400,000+ Priests, the 700,000+ Nuns, 50,000+ Monks, 100,000+ seminarians, that they may all become the Saints the Divine Will wishes them to be; for all the 1.35 Billion Members of the Church, the Millions of Catholic Catechumens and Children to be born and baptized in this Decade; we pray for good Priestly and Religious Vocations, for All Lay Apostolates, and All Souls until the end of the world. O my Jesus, please accept our life Sacrifice and our offerings and give us Your grace that we may all persevere obediently until death. Amen." https://marianapostolate.com/life-offering/

"Mother of God, Co-Redemptrix of the world, pray for us" [Promise: 1000 Souls from Purgatory]"This short prayer, this insistent prayer, every time it is said, sets free from Purgatory 1000 Souls, who reach the Eternal Joy, the Eternal Light"(!). http://www.jesusmariasite.org/jesus-pray-my-children-that-the-fifth-marian-dogma-be-proclaimed/
 
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Offline truly-a-philosofan

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Re: 5 good reasons to become (or remain!) a Catholic Christian.
« Reply #10 on: June 07, 2021, 10:56:31 AM »
Hi Xavier - this post seems to be aimed at someone like me. I will respond with some thoughts of my own regarding the first 3 points, since I don’t know if 4 and 5 are supposed to be evidence

Regarding Eucharistic miracles and Marian apparitions, a non-Catholic Christian could cite this passage from the beginning of Deuteronomy 13:

If a prophet, or one who foretells by dreams, appears among you and announces to you a sign or wonder, 2 and if the sign or wonder spoken of takes place, and the prophet says, “Let us follow other gods” (gods you have not known) “and let us worship them,” 3 you must not listen to the words of that prophet or dreamer. The Lord your God is testing you to find out whether you love him with all your heart and with all your soul.

The interesting thing about this passage is that it doesn’t specify if the miracle is performed by God or some infernal spirit, so it might be that God performs miracles such that it may appear to confirm the infidel prophet, but that God is testing to see if His people will remain true to Him, and not deviate from true worship and doctrine

Now undoubtly some people will convert because of these miracles - just as some Catholics convert to Charismatic churches because of healings or an experience of directly encountering the Holy Spirit. I don’t think either case is sound if one should follow the counsel from Deuteronomy 13.


Regarding the Shroud of Turin - how does that prove Christ’s resurrection? If it’s an authentic relic, at best that would prove Christ’s human existence and that He died and was buried. But how does it in itself prove His resurrection?

Some wonders could be done only by Divine power, such as the power to resurrect a human corpse back into the person it once was. And it is certain that God would never enable false prophets and deceiving spirits to perform this feat in order to deceive or allow them to deceive others. Otherwise, God’s own veracity would be compromised. And, if scholastic reasoning is to be diligently observed, His truthfulness can be proven even by reason alone.
« Last Edit: June 07, 2021, 11:02:16 AM by truly-a-philosofan »
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Offline truly-a-philosofan

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Re: 5 good reasons to become (or remain!) a Catholic Christian.
« Reply #11 on: June 07, 2021, 11:06:43 AM »
Some wonders could be done only by Divine power, such as the power to resurrect a human corpse back into the person it once was. And it is certain that God would never enable false prophets and deceiving spirits to perform this feat in order to deceive or allow them to deceive others. Otherwise, God’s own veracity would be compromised. And, if scholastic reasoning is to be diligently observed, His truthfulness can be proven even by reason alone.

This, btw, is the reason why the unbelieving Jews’ excuse that “oh even if Jesus resurrected from the dead, it could be that God was merely testing us if we Jews would continue to be faithful to the Torah” is evidence of the Jews’ own stubbornness. Insane. Imagine accusing God, Who is Truth Himself, of such a joke!
For the evil of the soul, its own will takes the initiative; but for its good, the will of its Creator makes the first move; whether to make the soul which did not yet exist, or to recreate it when it had perished through its fall.

St. Augustine, City of God XIII:15
 

Offline TheSaintsAreComing

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Re: 5 good reasons to become (or remain!) a Catholic Christian.
« Reply #12 on: June 07, 2021, 03:15:08 PM »
Hi Xavier - this post seems to be aimed at someone like me. I will respond with some thoughts of my own regarding the first 3 points, since I don’t know if 4 and 5 are supposed to be evidence

Regarding Eucharistic miracles and Marian apparitions, a non-Catholic Christian could cite this passage from the beginning of Deuteronomy 13:

If a prophet, or one who foretells by dreams, appears among you and announces to you a sign or wonder, 2 and if the sign or wonder spoken of takes place, and the prophet says, “Let us follow other gods” (gods you have not known) “and let us worship them,” 3 you must not listen to the words of that prophet or dreamer. The Lord your God is testing you to find out whether you love him with all your heart and with all your soul.

The interesting thing about this passage is that it doesn’t specify if the miracle is performed by God or some infernal spirit, so it might be that God performs miracles such that it may appear to confirm the infidel prophet, but that God is testing to see if His people will remain true to Him, and not deviate from true worship and doctrine

Now undoubtly some people will convert because of these miracles - just as some Catholics convert to Charismatic churches because of healings or an experience of directly encountering the Holy Spirit. I don’t think either case is sound if one should follow the counsel from Deuteronomy 13.


Regarding the Shroud of Turin - how does that prove Christ’s resurrection? If it’s an authentic relic, at best that would prove Christ’s human existence and that He died and was buried. But how does it in itself prove His resurrection?

Some wonders could be done only by Divine power, such as the power to resurrect a human corpse back into the person it once was. And it is certain that God would never enable false prophets and deceiving spirits to perform this feat in order to deceive or allow them to deceive others. Otherwise, God’s own veracity would be compromised. And, if scholastic reasoning is to be diligently observed, His truthfulness can be proven even by reason alone.

Hi TAP


It does make sense that the Devil couldn't copy-cat everything God can do, as the Devil is a creature like us and God the creator. But are you sure regarding reviving someone from the dead makes the list? It makes sense in the way that if he could, he would be able to copy the resurrection, the greatest miracle of Christ in the Gospel. But is it outright stated anywhere in Scripture that the Devil is limited in this way?

Also, the miracles we're talking about are Eucharistic and Marian Apparitions, which seems to be on the Devil's level. Visions of Angelic beings teaching something different from accepted doctrine is something Paul warns against in his letters and this is something I've read and heard several non-Catholic Christians bring up regarding Marian Apparitions
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Offline Prayerful

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Re: 5 good reasons to become (or remain!) a Catholic Christian.
« Reply #13 on: June 07, 2021, 08:05:19 PM »
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pascal%27s_wager#:~:text=Pascal's%20wager%20is%20an%20argument,either%20exists%20or%20does%20not.

Pascal's Wager was largely some scribbled notes in his Pensées. He would cringe at how often it has been used as an argument. It is adequate, but is no clincher, if someone looks into it.

The Mass of Ages for me, plus the mountains of spiritual writing it directly generated, more than in a lifetime. I hope one to have Dom Gueranger's Liturgical Year in full, although I disagree with his apparent hostility to local French Uses, whether Neo-Gallican or older. Also the lives of the saints, St Edmund Campion was fine mind, utterly heroic, but also realistic in discounting the right of a Pope to depose sovereigns. Pius V could have helped some northern rebels with Regnans in Excelsis, but when that failed, and the bull was not correctly timed, it meant savage persecution for Catholics. Persecution can give strength, but when the persecuting state does not waver, it works, after a fashion, which it did in Japan. Catholicism became a minority in England, although a surge in migration to England in late pre V2 days did put practicising Anglicans and Catholics in balance.
Padre Pio: Pray, hope, and don't worry. Worry is useless. God is merciful and will hear your prayer.