"Limiting God", Michael Voris

[Flora]

You have a point, but does the Church teach that former homosexuals cannot teach in a lay capacity?

The Church doesn't teach that former child rapists, former death camp commandants, or former HSBC call centre workers cannot teach in a lay capacity either.

One has to use one's common sense in these matters.

The very situation Voris finds himself in NOW, is exactly why people who have secret highly sordid lives should not be public representatives or teachers or Catholicism.

Please explain the Vatican's new instruction on inter-religious dialogue with the Jews Herr Schmidt?

Vell, I typically told zhem to remove zhair jewelry, gather zhair hair up and pray to whatever god zhey believed in.

Hardly a credible way to sell Nostra Aetate is it?

See if you can convince Pope Frank to consider putting a former repentant member of the SS in charge of anything at the Vatican.

I bet you can't.  Despite the fact the Church does not specifically forbid it.

What about former murderers of Christians, e.g., St. Paul? It would seem like former murderers of Christians can even be bishops.

[Non Nobis]

Because one can also say that St. Augustine also "shagged a whole bunch of women".

But they were women.

Big difference.

Name me a reformed faggot saint or doctor of the Church.  Just one will do in the last 2000 years.

Perhaps MV was not prudent, after his repentance, to become such a public figure in teaching about the Church without revealing his horrendous sins first. You would think he would have foreseen that it could cause problems such as it is causing.

But I don't see that it is absolutely impossible for a person with involuntary homosexual tendencies to repent, and finally die a holy death, and even be "canonized in God's eyes", to put it awkwardly. It is possible that the Church would never canonize such a man, out of prudence. But I think it is also possible that, without canonizing him, the Church might praise many of the works of such a man (e.g.  MV) (after his death, but even before).

MV's works might do others good even now.

[Greg]

Technically he wasn't a murderer.

He had the state's authority to kill them.  That makes him an executioner.

Moreover he didn't admit it 15 years later.  He admitted it from the get-go.

Timing is everything.

[Flora]

Technically he wasn't a murderer.

He had the state's authority to kill them.  That makes him an executioner.

Moreover he didn't admit it 15 years later.  He admitted it from the get-go.

Timing is everything.

I understand where you're coming from, but from examples in Church history, it would seem like common sense doesn't always apply. You mentioned that Pope Francis would not hire a former-SS (technically also an executioner according to your definition) because of the scandal. Well, Pope Francis probably would not have hired St. Paul then either. That is why I want to know what the Church teaches on this matter, instead of just applying "common sense".

[Greg]

So find me any example in Church history where a decade after obtaining a position of teaching authority, a Catholic figure confessed to a decade long perversion and still kept their position of teaching authority.

Contact the IRS one month after filling and they will let you correct a mistake.  Try telling them you have been making mistakes for the last 15 years and see what happens.

[Gerard]

Technically he wasn't a murderer.

He had the state's authority to kill them.  That makes him an executioner.

Moreover he didn't admit it 15 years later.  He admitted it from the get-go.

Timing is everything.

King David was a murderer who committed his murder by abusing his authority.  The murder was of course to cover his adultery.

He didn't admit to  the adultery and apologize for it, he committed a murder to cover it up.  Something is wrong in the head with a guy who would do any of that.

He also never had the courage to admit it from the get go.  He was content to cover it up.

He had to be called onto the carpet by the prophet Nathan. 

He then composed the Psalms.  God used him as a vessel to teach the world how to pray to God. 

God doesn't seem to bother with our worries about "taint" concerning people He rescues, and sometimes He uses them as examples, and He also doesn't make them perfect in this life.  They often still have huge roles, huge responsibilities and have great victories and gigantic failures. 

God's common sense isn't our common sense. 

[Non Nobis]

So find me any example in Church history where a decade after obtaining a position of teaching authority, a Catholic figure confessed to a decade long perversion and still kept their position of teaching authority.

Contact the IRS one month after filling and they will let you correct a mistake.  Try telling them you have been making mistakes for the last 15 years and see what happens.

Thank God He is not the IRS.  Neither is the Church.

What if MV also publicly repented of his lack of courage (and lack of prudence) in not revealing his scandal-causing sins earlier?  Would that make any difference?

He isn't and never was a Church-approved teaching authority.  The question is whether he is worth listening to.  If you like, have children stay away. Aren't adults able to listen to what he says without doing what he did and repented of?

[Bonaventure]

He's just a guy with a youtube channel. If suckers want to pay for a cruise, an online subscription, etc., that's their fault. He's not really teaching the Faith, he simply posts things online. All of us on this forum do that, he just does it under his real name and with a broader outreach.

Look at St. Mary Magdalene, the Lord said she had all sins within her.

[Bonaventure]

So find me any example in Church history where a decade after obtaining a position of teaching authority, a Catholic figure confessed to a decade long perversion and still kept their position of teaching authority.

He's not in a teaching position. Just a dude with a website.

It's not like he was in a seminary seeking ordination.

[Miriam_M]

He's just a guy with a youtube channel. If suckers want to pay for a cruise, an online subscription, etc., that's their fault. He's not really teaching the Faith, he simply posts things online. All of us on this forum do that, he just does it under his real name and with a broader outreach.

I agree.  He is not in any kind of a formal teaching position.  And he claims much less to "have [questionable] answers for Catholics"  than certain websites (read, commercial companies --also offering cruises, subscriptions, and various "products") do.

[Basilios]

If Blessed Bartolo Longo can go from being a satanic priest to being near sainthood and if Zachary King can go from trampling consecrated hosts to speaking around the world I'm not sure why Michael Voris can't run a private media outlet doing similar things.

A man who went from the depths of depravity and hell back into the loving embrace of the Church and trying to dedicate his life to exposing evil within (even if I disagree with some of his editorial stances)... Well it seems like a reason to rejoice more than anything else.

Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good. If you don't like him just don't watch him (as I never do anyway).

[diaduit]

Has he married since? Thought I heard he did!

Agree with Irish cyclist , he must have been mentally tortured before the release of this clip. Imagine having to publicly announce your past grave sins.
I still will not listen to him anymore until his trade bashing stops

[Greg]

Well, all I can say is I can't understand it at all.

Back in the 1980s my views were dead centre in the SSPX.  There is absolutely no way that someone with a 15 year history of sodomy would have been accepted as any sort of moral commentator representing the Trad world.  "Private apostolate" or otherwise.

Today you nearly all appear to be cool with it.

I find it very difficult to back a position that remarried Catholics can't receive communion and instead have to either go without the sacraments for decades or give up companionship of the opposite sex, whilst a person can shag and sodomise anything with a pulse for 15 years, during pretty much all of the years that a person really wants to have sex and then revert and not only be a Catholic in good standing but put themselves up as a moral teacher and commentator and pundit.

It seems highly inconsistent and highly unjust.

People following their natural inclinations to marry and have children are punished, whilst people following their perverse inclinations have the slate wiped clean.

[dellery]

Perhaps Mr.Voris' sympathizers can invoke the "who am I to judge" defense and petition the papal nuncio to bring this to the Holy Father's attention.

[Basilios]

He's not a representative of anything except maybe neo-conservatism nevermind Traditionalism. He's not a moral commentator; he's a glorified blogger and journalist who also dabbles in trying to help people understand the faith. His past sins don't disqualify him from this job. If he starts going easy on the homos and decides to talk with a lisp perhaps you'd have a point. As it stands he denounces homosexuality and has taken private vows of celibacy. He's also well educated in the faith. His only crime as far as we can see is refusing to note the Pope problem we have (hardly a moral fault) and his pen twirling.

A remarried Catholic vs a sodomite is comparing apples and oranges. Sodomy involves no sacramental indissoluble union. A fair comparison is fornicators. And fornicators can get married. Divorced and remarried are hardly being punished. Surprising you would use that language since you're hard on the morally degenerate people. Living in unrepentant adultery disqualifies you from Holy Communion. Hardly seems unjust. The only requirement to be admitted to the sacraments is the same requirement as everybody else: stop sinning and be sorry.

There are 7 capital sins not just one. Would it shock you to know that not every priest is a virgin? Or is it scandalous for them to preach against the 6th and the 9th if they've committed these sins themselves?

I don't think anybody considers Voris to be an ideal figure of virtue. Even if they did, I don't see him have anything but disdain for sin and evil so it'd hardly be an injustice. Thank God forgiveness is a central part of the Christian faith.

Expecting people to 'out' their moral faults before embarking on any course of action relating to the faith is bizarre. You don't have to tell every women you meet that you used to fantasize about women; as if they need to be privy to private sins just so they know they who they are dealing with. As far as we know Voris committed these sins privately and at a time when he wasn't even a practicing Catholic.