Tom Woods on the Unmoved Mover

Started by Angelorum, October 28, 2014, 12:27:32 AM

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Angelorum

I just found a new resource to destroy atheists and their arguments.  :)

"All men naturally desire to know, but what does knowledge avail without the fear of God? Indeed an humble peasant, that serves God, is better than a proud philosopher, who neglecting himself, considers the course of the heavens." - Thomas à Kempis, Imitation of Christ

LouisIX

I don't have the time now to listen, but does he touch on the very crucial (and now so often lost) point that motion here is not local motion but change of any sort?
IF I speak with the tongues of men, and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.

Angelorum

Quote from: LouisIX on October 28, 2014, 09:46:59 AM
I don't have the time now to listen, but does he touch on the very crucial (and now so often lost) point that motion here is not local motion but change of any sort?

Yeah, he mentions in the video that without God there can no change of any kind.
"All men naturally desire to know, but what does knowledge avail without the fear of God? Indeed an humble peasant, that serves God, is better than a proud philosopher, who neglecting himself, considers the course of the heavens." - Thomas à Kempis, Imitation of Christ

LouisIX

The first two ways must be carefully presented lest they fall into the superficial reading that many atheists have properly dispelled.  We must not forget the metaphysical foundation of these proofs, i.e. motion is the actualization of potencies resulting in change and causation is ontological, not temporal.
IF I speak with the tongues of men, and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.

Older Salt

I do not know any atheists who wear fedoras.
Stay away from the near occasion of sin

Unless one is deeply attached to the Blessed Virgin Mary, now in time, it impossible to attain salvation.

Francisco Suárez


Older Salt

Stay away from the near occasion of sin

Unless one is deeply attached to the Blessed Virgin Mary, now in time, it impossible to attain salvation.

LouisIX

Let's recall that this is the Sacred Sciences sub-forum and try to keep things centered around the OP.

Thank you.
IF I speak with the tongues of men, and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.

Older Salt

I am addressing a point the OP made:

"the fedora-wearing atheists"

I take offense at that bit.
Stay away from the near occasion of sin

Unless one is deeply attached to the Blessed Virgin Mary, now in time, it impossible to attain salvation.

Southern Ascetic

Very good podcast. I sent this to an Aquinas doubter earlier on reddit, hopefully he listens to it. Woods breaks it down nicely.

Angelorum

Quote from: Older Salt on October 28, 2014, 01:34:26 PM
I am addressing a point the OP made:

"the fedora-wearing atheists"

I take offense at that bit.

You're right - it was totally wrong of me to associate fedoras with atheists, thus I have changed my OP.
"All men naturally desire to know, but what does knowledge avail without the fear of God? Indeed an humble peasant, that serves God, is better than a proud philosopher, who neglecting himself, considers the course of the heavens." - Thomas à Kempis, Imitation of Christ

rbjmartin

Quote from: Ascetik on October 28, 2014, 02:30:15 PM
Very good podcast. I sent this to an Aquinas doubter earlier on reddit, hopefully he listens to it. Woods breaks it down nicely.

Don't read the comment box, though. It will irritate you. Tons of anti-religious idiots felt it would be open-minded and intelligent to post their irrelevant reasons for disliking organized religion without at all addressing Dr. Woods' arguments.

Older Salt

Quote from: Angelorum on October 28, 2014, 02:38:37 PM
Quote from: Older Salt on October 28, 2014, 01:34:26 PM
I am addressing a point the OP made:

"the fedora-wearing atheists"

I take offense at that bit.

You're right - it was totally wrong of me to associate fedoras with atheists, thus I have changed my OP.
Thank you sir.
Excellent pod cast.
Stay away from the near occasion of sin

Unless one is deeply attached to the Blessed Virgin Mary, now in time, it impossible to attain salvation.