Question for Insanis?

[diaduit]

How are you able to change thread titles in single posts?  I've seen you do it a few times.

https://www.suscipedomine.com/forum/index.php?topic=24941.msg537986#new

[Lynne]

Just go up to the subject line and edit away... 

[clau clau]

Yes, it works.   

[Jayne]

It does not take any technical expertise at all.

[clau clau]

It does not take any technical expertise at all.

Agreed.  It does not take technical expertise BUT it's not intuitive.

On most of the message boards I have used, it is not possible to change the subject of the thread.

I would say it is bad form to do this as it confuses people.  I would think it would be better to start a new thread with a new subject.

It could also be argued it is bad form to edit posts once they are posted.  I've certainly done this.  Sometimes to remove speeling (sic) mistakes or correct grandma (sic).  It can get
really confusing when somebody replies to something that somebody said and they edit their original post so it looks like they did not say it.  Many times the person replying
has 'quoted' the post and there is an anomaly between the original and the quoted original.

1st world problems eh.

[Jayne]

re: changing subject lines

I would say it is bad form to do this as it confuses people.  I would think it would be better to start a new thread with a new subject.

In general, what is most important when communication is involved is having agreed upon conventions.  Thread drift is a fact of forum life.  The convention that most have been using here is to continue in the same thread with the same subject line.  This results in the actual discussion often having no relation to the subject line.  As you say, another approach is to start a new thread.  Insanis has given us some good models of yet another technique, changing the subject line while retaining the threading.  I am demonstrating a variation of this approach in this post.  I have changed the subject line while putting the former subject in brackets.

All of these methods have inherent advantages and disadvantages.  They can all be made to work when everyone knows what is going on.

It could also be argued it is bad form to edit posts once they are posted.  I've certainly done this.  Sometimes to remove speeling (sic) mistakes or correct grandma (sic).  It can get
really confusing when somebody replies to something that somebody said and they edit their original post so it looks like they did not say it.  Many times the person replying
has 'quoted' the post and there is an anomaly between the original and the quoted original.

Editing without indicating that an edit has happened is highly problematic.  This forum is set up so that this is not an option.  The software itself automatically adds a statement that an edit took place and when.  It would probably be even better if posters added an explanation of the reason for the edit, e.g. spelling/grammar, clarity, rethinking content, etc. 

When everyone is aware that editing is an option and the occurrence of edits is marked, it is not especially confusing when one sees a discrepancy between quotes and originals.

[edited for clarity]

[diaduit]

Right, I had no clue that that was possible and I've been on mums forums and local political ones over the years.


hmmmm could have fun with this.

[The Curt Jester]

I've know about it for a long time, but I think I've only used it once.  I have no problem with it either way.

[Jayne]

Right, I had no clue that that was possible and I've been on mums forums and local political ones over the years.

Something else that people might not know about is a feature of the quote function.   The line that starts "Quote from: ..." is a link to the original post. We can click on it and see the entire post. (in this post, "Quote from: diaduit on Today at 09:24:21 AM")  This works when one replies to a post using the "quote" button, as above, or the "insert quote" button. e.g.

I've know about it for a long time, but I think I've only used it once.  I have no problem with it either way.

However it does not work if one cuts and pastes something using the quote icon:

I've know about it for a long time, but I think I've only used it once.  I have no problem with it either way.

It is possible to add the name to quotes by typing in the name into the opening square bracket.  In the above, I could put "quote=The Curt Jester" and get:

I've know about it for a long time, but I think I've only used it once.  I have no problem with it either way.

[Insanis]

Agreed.  It does not take technical expertise BUT it's not intuitive.

Nothing in technology is intuitive, especially UI design.

It is all learned.

I would say it is bad form to do this as it confuses people.  I would think it would be better to start a new thread with a new subject.

Do you really? Do you know what people say and do if you start new threads for new topics?

I went down that road you know. You didn't like it.

It could also be argued it is bad form to edit posts once they are posted.  I've certainly done this.  Sometimes to remove speeling (sic) mistakes or correct grandma (sic).

If it is edited to make replies look bad, true, but otherwise, it is fine.

I mean, if I make a poll asking if people believe in God, and then after everybody votes, I switch the questions and keep the answers, it would make everybody look like atheists.

If I couldn't fix errors in posts, I wouldn't post.

[clau clau]

I slipped up today.  I started responding to people I usually have on ignore.

I learned my lesson, I will not make that mistake again.

[Insanis]

I would like to point out, as some have actually done before, the posting functions of this forum (and most) are a lot more feature rich than most people actually use.

There is also a UI concern: if you are using the WYSIWYG editor, I have no idea how flexible that is. You can edit your profile options in Profile->Modify Profile->Look and Layout. diaduit, you can edit your options here.

By default, Show WYSIWYG editor on post page by default. is checked.

If you uncheck it, you can edit the raw BBCode. This is how I use the forum. I was a programmer and am used to writing in code. My website is handcoded as well, so it is actually easier to write:

[url=https://www.suscipedomine.com/forum/index.php?action=profile;area=theme;u=578]diaduit, you can edit your options here[/url]

Than:

Code (HTML) Select Expand

<a href='https://www.suscipedomine.com/forum/index.php?action=profile;area=theme;u=578' title='diaduit's profile options'>diaduit, you can edit your options here</a>

Now, you might be wondering, how did I actually type out the raw code and have it displayed like that? I used the [nobbc][/nobbc] tags and the [code][/code] tags. How did I type that? By typing more than you see.

I realize most people find it somewhat "magical" to have this kind of knowledge of how the software works, but it is pretty simple in concept and since I'm already that kind of typist, it is actually quite efficient. I've also setup and administered and modified SMF before, so I'm familiar with how it works. I'm not sure how "esoteric" some of the knowledge is to others. To me, it makes perfect sense to post a link to a page that only one person can actually see, because that is how SMF links to those pages.

I'd be happy to explain how something is done if anybody wants to know how to do something they have seen on the forum. But please keep in mind that I am not using the WYSIWYG editor.

[Insanis]

One thing, why do I edit titles so much? It was always possible, but it was rarely done.

The reason why I do it so much is that threads on this forum are often derailed in some way, and the original titles are long or non-descriptive of the actual post.

On the front page of the forum, the top thread in a subforum has its title and last poster displayed, but a long title doesn't get shown.

You'll notice that much of the time, my edited thread titles are fully displayed, such as "Coffee, Donuts, & Spite?" which fits entirely in that slot, whereas "Coffee and Donuts And Spite?"  and "Coffee, Donuts, and Spite?" do not. But, replies can mangle it, as that thread has done already.

I view the post title as part of the post. I don't want others putting words in my posts and if I can edit it, then I may when I want it to be different. The original thread's title is still the same after a post has an edited title.

[mikemac]

I didn't know about the nobbc tag.  So this text link ...

diaduit, you can edit your options here

looks like this using the nobbc tag.

[url=https://www.suscipedomine.com/forum/index.php?action=profile;area=theme;u=578]diaduit, you can edit your options here[/url]

Although before knowing about the nobbc tag I would have shown someone how to write a text link by using the code feature of the forum like this.

Code Select Expand

[url=https://www.suscipedomine.com/forum/index.php?action=profile;area=theme;u=578]diaduit, you can edit your options here[/url]


Click Select, copy and paste to write the text link, like this.

diaduit, you can edit your options here

[Insanis]

The buttons on the editor are very limited. It is better to know the full options.

For example, the editor lets you change font size by points only, but that is a bad idea. It is a fixed value. If someone has their browser to display text at 20 points, setting a size at a 18 points to make it "bigger" would in fact make it smaller for that person with different browser defaults.

So, if you know how the code works, you can use relative sizes, So it is always extra large no matter what the browser defaults are, likewise, it could be smaller than the default too, without knowing what the default size is.

As far as I know, one merely has to know CSS , and the how the SMF code works, to go beyond the presented options. There is no UI option for relative sizes.

I also type in my own hex codes for colour when I wanted make a different coloured text. You won't find that in the menu.