Discontinuance poll

Started by Mono no aware, June 21, 2021, 09:21:42 AM

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Mono no aware

Pollice Verso.  It is doubtful that the forum administrator will enforce the results of this poll, so it will be left to the loser(s) to make good on the vox populi.  My own political instincts are fascistic, but I believe democracy has its place in small settings, and I promise to request a permanent ban if the result of the poll is for option 2 or option 3.  The administrator does in fact honor such requests.

Insanis can state his own intentions on the thread.  He has indicated that he may view this enterprise as merely "for fun," but I could be reading him incorrectly.  Perhaps he too will request a permanent ban if the result is for option 1 or option 3.  My own hope is that he will publicly state his intention to honor option 1, but remain silent on what he might do in the event of option 3 prevailing.  I suspect option 3 will be the preference for most voters, so an unknown intention on the part of Insanis would give the most tempting option the quality of a wildcard, or the "mystery door" on game shows.

orate

What about an option to allow both to stay?
I love Thee, Jesus, my love.  Grant me the grace to love Thee always, and do with me what Thou wilt.

"Blame yourself, then change yourself.  That's where we all need to start."   Dr. Louis IX (aka "Dr. Walty")

Insanis

This poll was made with my consent (although, I didn't expect it to be here or look like this), however, I do view it for fun and expect no action to be taken either way based on the results of the poll. Forum activity is the only cause for a ban or a personal request (if such requests are honoured) from the individual.

However, for this, if the admin does use the poll to ban someone who didn't request it, it would indicate a deeper policy on the forum which I've outlined elsewhere.

Quote from: Pon de Replay on June 21, 2021, 09:21:42 AM
My own political instincts are fascistic

My political instincts are Catholic moral principles: everybody has the obligation to do what is morally right, all the time, including politicians and political leaders of all kinds.

QuoteMy own hope is that he will publicly state his intention to honor option 1, but remain silent on what he might do in the event of option 3 prevailing.

I didn't read the poll yet, or if I did, I forgot it and I cannot see it on this reply until I submit it.

However, I only want to be banned if affirmation of Catholic doctrine, devotions, and theology is found to be ill-suited for this forum.

I also view some of the actions taken and not taken as a relative indication of values.

There are many canaries here.

Mono no aware

Quote from: orate on June 21, 2021, 09:28:52 AM
What about an option to allow both to stay?

I had considered including that as an option, but I thought it was another option too many.  Two would've been best.  In the original version of the project as envisioned by Greg, it was supposed to be high-stakes and either-or.  The third option is my concession to Insanis, who counseled against making it too much of a dichotomy.

I take your point, though—this is not quite democratic without the fourth option on offer.  On the other hand, I imagine that would be a very minority opinion: either negligible, or siphoning crucial votes if the contest comes out close.  You can put Ralph Nader on the ballot, but he'll only serve as a spoiler.

Insanis

Quote from: Pon de Replay on June 21, 2021, 09:39:05 AM
The third option is my concession to Insanis, who counseled against making it too much of a dichotomy.
In my polls, I have found people can be picky and having something for everyone helps things along.

Of course, it can backfire, my own poll was useless, given that the third option was within one vote of the others. Not enough people voted: it was statistically a three way tie. That was my fault: it was a weekend poll which ran for a day.

But I added that third option for me: I didn't expect anybody else to use it.

QuoteI take your point, though—this is not quite democratic without the fourth option on offer.  On the other hand, I imagine that would be a very minority opinion: either negligible ,or siphoning crucial votes if the contest comes out close.  You can put Ralph Nader on the ballot, but he'll only serve as a spoiler.

For this, it might be useful to add an option which indicates nothing: so people can vote, and you can gauge either relative response.

That is what a third party candidate is actually for: to show that the non-voters exist.

If you get a 100 votes spread between you and me, and 10000 for the "other", it indicates that the poll wasn't applicable.

Mono no aware

Quote from: Insanis on June 21, 2021, 09:29:02 AMI only want to be banned if affirmation of Catholic doctrine, devotions, and theology is found to be ill-suited for this forum.

Begging your pardon, but wouldn't you also want to be banned if this principle were reformulated negatively?  If the atmosphere of the forum is such that the likes of you posting is wished to be discontinued over the likes of me, wouldn't your "affirmation" be implicitly negated?  This poll is intended to gauge that atmosphere.  And, as stated in the OP, one can "self-ban" by request.

The Curt Jester

You forgot the fourth option:  polls like this are entirely stupid.
The royal feast was done; the King
Sought some new sport to banish care,
And to his jester cried: "Sir Fool,
Kneel now, and make for us a prayer!"

The jester doffed his cap and bells,
And stood the mocking court before;
They could not see the bitter smile
Behind the painted grin he wore.

He bowed his head, and bent his knee
Upon the Monarch's silken stool;
His pleading voice arose: "O Lord,
Be merciful to me, a fool!"

Mono no aware

Quote from: Insanis on June 21, 2021, 09:44:06 AMFor this, it might be useful to add an option which indicates nothing: so people can vote, and you can gauge either relative response.

That is what a third party candidate is actually for: to show that the non-voters exist.

If you get a 100 votes spread between you and me, and 10000 for the "other", it indicates that the poll wasn't applicable.

As much as it pains me to make the poll so "snowflake," so to speak, I think you are correct here.  I want, above all, to ensure that you think the poll is applicable, so I will grudgingly add a fourth option.

Insanis

Quote from: Pon de Replay on June 21, 2021, 09:50:03 AM
Begging your pardon, but wouldn't you also want to be banned if this principle were reformulated negatively?  If the atmosphere of the forum is such that the likes of you posting is wished to be discontinued over the likes of me, wouldn't your "affirmation" be implicitly negated?  This poll is intended to gauge that atmosphere.  And, as stated in the OP, one can "self-ban" by request.

At the current time, not exactly.

I still view the forum as essentially what it was intended to be, but with an overworked admin who is unable to keep up with everything.

There are alternative explanations, so I'm well aware that this forum is actually fundamentally hostile.

But I think it has a weird dynamic with altered forum behaviours due to the time and events which caused the public forum to misrepresent the actual forum base.

As I wrote elsewhere, I am open to criticism, but I typically ignore it on the forum, because I know it is a minority view of people who I either don't respect, or who are not active on the forum and are just being petty (at best).

There is a huge army of people who log in, watch the forum, and even send personal messages that most people don't seem to be aware of.

They indicate that they don't post on the public forum because of the issues I am outlining.

So collectively, this forum has many apparently good Catholics who don't want to deal with the minority which causes issues.

I understand that, but it is a feedback loop that has been happening for a while now it seems.

I do evaluate my activities and alter my approach though, and if things progress the same, I am very likely to withdraw from public posting as I did before (nobody noticed or used the forum more when I did that, so people complaining are just doing it for the sake of complaining: I'm not actually posting too much if there is otherwise no other discussion going on).

However, at the moment, I have some rosaries listed, a custom rosary request, and a possible book review to do, and I wouldn't want an abrupt end to these things. If I were to withdraw completely, I'd have to deal with those loose ends first. I don't have a website of my own to contact me or profiles anywhere else.

Mono no aware

Quote from: The Curt Jester on June 21, 2021, 09:51:28 AM
You forgot the fourth option:  polls like this are entirely stupid.

No, that would be a different poll entirely.  I suppose the best way to reflect your opinion in this particular poll would be to select option 2.  You may of course consider such a nuclear option to be over-correcting for what you view as my stupidity.

Insanis

Quote from: orate on June 21, 2021, 09:28:52 AM
What about an option to allow both to stay?

Quote from: The Curt Jester on June 21, 2021, 09:51:28 AM
You forgot the fourth option:  polls like this are entirely stupid.

I hate to do this: but I agree with Pon de Replay. There is a time for talk and a time for action, and a meaningless Internet poll is serious business.

Polls are stupid, but so are video games, rock and roll, and warning labels on sharp objects stating they are indeed probably sharp. So, here we are: we play video games, we listen to rock influenced music, and cutting edge is sharp.

Mono no aware

Quote from: Insanis on June 21, 2021, 09:29:02 AMIf the admin does use the poll to ban someone who didn't request it, it would indicate a deeper policy on the forum which I've outlined elsewhere.

I am almost certain that he will not do that.  The only stated policy on involuntary ban polls is that their results will not be honored, and if they are created, they will be locked.  For this particular poll to work, you Insanis have to be willing to voluntarily self-exile if the final result is for either option 1 or option 3.  Depending on whether you publicly state your intentions, the settings of the poll allow participants to change their vote.

Insanis

Quote from: Pon de Replay on June 21, 2021, 10:04:23 AM
Quote from: Insanis on June 21, 2021, 09:29:02 AMIf the admin does use the poll to ban someone who didn't request it, it would indicate a deeper policy on the forum which I've outlined elsewhere.

I am almost certain that he will not do that.  The only stated policy on involuntary ban polls is that their results will not be honored, and if they are created, they will be locked.  For this particular poll to work, you Insanis have to be willing to voluntarily self-exile if the final result is for either option 1 or option 3.  Depending on whether you publicly state your intentions, the settings of the poll allow participants to change their vote.

This poll in isolation has no impact on how I would use or not use the forum.

I'm unaware of previous forum policy on this, so my consent to its creation was because I viewed it as a whimsical poll that I found inoffensive.

The poll will work: the software is not broken. Interpreting the results is an exercise left to the readers.

Jayne

This forum would be improved if Pon de Replay either left or stopped expressing his anti-Catholic views.  For this to happen, all that is required is enforcement of existing forum rules.  This poll is indeed "entirely stupid" and goes against long-standing forum policy.

Over the years, Pon has repeatedly lobbied for a "perma-ban poll" and been shot down by moderators and other forum members.  I am disappointed that Insanis is cooperating with him.  The only good thing about it is that it proves the absurdity of the false claim that I am manipulating or controlling Insanis.  Rest assured that if I really did have such influence on Insanis he would not be going along with this nonsense.
Jesus, meek and humble of heart, make my heart like unto Thine.

Mono no aware

Quote from: Insanis on June 21, 2021, 10:07:13 AMThis poll in isolation has no impact on how I would use or not use the forum.

Well, then you have ruined the point of it.  It is nearly a futile exercise; it will be useful only in the event that option 2 or option 3 prevail, at least for mikemac, and the woman who sent him PMs complaining about me, and the rest of what may be a silent minority. 

Quote from: Insanis on June 21, 2021, 10:07:13 AMI'm unaware of previous forum policy on this, so my consent to its creation was because I viewed it as a whimsical poll that I found inoffensive.

Previous policy is that the admin will not honor the results of "should such-and-such be banned?" polls.  There is no existing policy on a poll such as this one, in which both candidates willingly state they will self-exile if they lose.  And why would there be?  It is indeed, as you say, "whimsical and inoffensive."