Satan's faith

[Daniel]

It is said that Satan has faith. But if that's the case, then why was Satan not able to identify Christ as God until after the crucifixion?
The gospels seem to present it as sort of a guessing game: Satan suspects that Christ is God all along, but he doesn't know for sure, so he spends three and a half years (perhaps more) temping our Lord, trying to figure it out. And he doesn't figure it out until it's too late to stop the redemption.
But you would think that if Satan had faith, then Satan would have immediately identified Christ as God (in the same way that St. Peter, as soon as God gave him the faith, was able to identify and confess Christ as God).

[St.Justin]

God and all the Angelic beings live in eternity. There is no time for them.
Besides what good would recognizing Jesus have done him he was already condemned for all eternity.

[Greg]

Perhaps, in his pride, he made assumptions about the messiah that Jesus simply did not fit.  A bit like the pharisees did.

Pretty much none of us think Pope Michael is "Pope", because he is a homebody and mid-west hillbilly.  We just cannot see God expecting any of us to take Pope Michael seriously.  He doesn't fit our experience of what Pope must be.

We're probably correct and Michael isn't the Pope.

It can't have been THAT obvious that Jesus was God - because even the apostles took a while to work it out.

[james03]

A demon is an infinite abyss of hatred.

Let us take the case that the devil knew Jesus was God, or at least suspected it.

Think of the statement made.  The devil gets Jesus killed BECAUSE of the damage it causes the devil and BECAUSE of the increase torment it will cause him.  It was ultimate hatred and rejection of God.

When you sin, it is at least a rejection of God also.  Think about that.

But then again, Pope Francis has told us hell does not exist, so really the devil was annihilated centuries before Jesus was born.  The devil just stands for the evil in man's hearts after all.

[Geremia]

It is said that Satan has faith.

Angels don't need faith; they behold God directly.

[Non Nobis]

It is said that Satan has faith.

Angels don't need faith; they behold God directly.

They don't need faith that God exists (nor do we), but St. Thomas says they do have faith:

http://www.newadvent.org/summa/3005.htm#article2

Article 2. Whether in the demons there is faith?

Objection 1. It would seem that the demons have no faith. For Augustine says (De Praedest. Sanct. v) that "faith depends on the believer's will": and this is a good will, since by it man wishes to believe in God. Since then no deliberate will of the demons is good, as stated above (I:64:2 ad 5), it seems that in the demons there is no faith.

Objection 2. Further, faith is a gift of Divine grace, according to Ephesians 2:8: "By grace you are saved through faith . . . for it is the gift of God." Now, according to a gloss on Hosea 3:1, "They look to strange gods, and love the husks of the grapes," the demons lost their gifts of grace by sinning. Therefore faith did not remain in the demons after they sinned.

Objection 3. Further, unbelief would seem to be graver than other sins, as Augustine observes (Tract. lxxxix in Joan.) on John 15:22, "If I had not come and spoken to them, they would not have sin: but now they have no excuse for their sin." Now the sin of unbelief is in some men. Consequently, if the demons have faith, some men would be guilty of a sin graver than that of the demons, which seems unreasonable. Therefore in the demons there is no faith.

On the contrary, It is written (James 2:19): "The devils . . . believe and tremble."

I answer that, As stated above (II-II:1:4; II-II:2:1), the believer's intellect assents to that which he believes, not because he sees it either in itself, or by resolving it to first self-evident principles, but because his will commands his intellect to assent. Now, that the will moves the intellect to assent, may be due to two causes. First, through the will being directed to the good, and in this way, to believe is a praiseworthy action. Secondly, because the intellect is convinced that it ought to believe what is said, though that conviction is not based on objective evidence. Thus if a prophet, while preaching the word of God, were to foretell something, and were to give a sign, by raising a dead person to life, the intellect of a witness would be convinced so as to recognize clearly that God, Who lieth not, was speaking, although the thing itself foretold would not be evident in itself, and consequently the essence of faith would not be removed.

Accordingly we must say that faith is commended in the first sense in the faithful of Christ: and in this way faith is not in the demons, but only in the second way, for they see many evident signs, whereby they recognize that the teaching of the Church is from God, although they do not see the things themselves that the Church teaches, for instance that there are three Persons in God, and so forth.

Reply to Objection 1. The demons are, in a way, compelled to believe, by the evidence of signs, and so their will deserves no praise for their belief.

Reply to Objection 2. Faith, which is a gift of grace, inclines man to believe, by giving him a certain affection for the good, even when that faith is lifeless. Consequently the faith which the demons have, is not a gift of grace. Rather are they compelled to believe through their natural intellectual acumen.

Reply to Objection 3. The very fact that the signs of faith are so evident, that the demons are compelled to believe, is displeasing to them, so that their malice is by no means diminished by their believe.

[St. Columba]

I believe Satan knew Jesus was God the whole time.

Satan must have noticed the conspicuous absence of any sin in Mary.  Satan also knows the scriptures inside out, and must have clearly discerned the prophesies of old being fulfilled.  To boot, when Jesus converses with Satan in the NT, there even seems to be a curt, if not passing, familiarity between them.

I never really bought the claim that the devil tempted Jesus in order to determine if He was God or not.

Thanks!   

[St. Columba]

I answer that, As stated above (II-II:1:4; II-II:2:1), the believer's intellect assents to that which he believes, not because he sees it either in itself, or by resolving it to first self-evident principles, but because his will commands his intellect to assent.

Boy is St Thomas at odds with Quaremerepulisti's notion of faith.

[Daniel]

Somewhere in his Enchiridion, St. Augustine (citing James 2:19 "the devils also believe and tremble") says that the devils have faith, but lack hope and charity.

As far as I'm aware, the fallen angels do not see God directly. (If they could see God directly, wouldn't that imply that they have the beatific vision?)

Also, the angels exist in aeviternity, not in eternity. Things in aeviternity can still undergo qualitative change, and (correct me if I'm wrong) knowledge is a quality. So the angels can and do gain knowledge of particulars (objects and events) in time, as those things unfold.


But suppose we take it that Satan did know all along. I am wondering why Satan even bothered to tempt our Lord? And he would incite the people to crucify Him, knowing that in doing so he'd personally be the one who effected the Redemption?
I suppose maybe his hatred was just so great that he just didn't care...

[St. Columba]

But suppose we take it that Satan did know all along. I am wondering why Satan even bothered to tempt our Lord? And he would incite the people to crucify Him, knowing that in doing so he'd personally be the one who effected the Redemption?
I suppose maybe his hatred was just so great that he just didn't care...

Hi Daniel.  Nice to interact with you! 

Some loosely connected remarks:

1. Satan would still be inflicting pain on our Lord and his mother.
2. Satan knows he will ultimately lose anyway.  It is like he does this all of it out of pure spite.
3. Perhaps he did not entice the people to crucify Jesus.
4. Satan tempts many good people, knowing that in many cases he will fail, and actually increase their merit, thereby increasing his own shame in the end.  But he still does it anyway.

Satan must have connected the dots just by observing Mary and Jesus.  Satan must have heard Jesus say, "Before Abraham was, I am"; he must was noticed that Mary was immaculately conceived, and not in his clutches. etc etc...surely he recognized his nemesis.

Satan surely noticed that Mary and Jesus never sinned...not once.  He was not actually expecting Jesus to fall down and worship him.  He knew it would not happen.  And let us recall that it was the Spirit who lead him out to the desert to be tempted in the first place.  Satan played the role God would have him play, no more, no less.

Thanks Daniel for your awesome posts!  I like them a lot!   

[Kreuzritter]

God and all the Angelic beings live in eternity. There is no time for them.
Besides what good would recognizing Jesus have done him he was already condemned for all eternity.

Angels are not eternal. And if they existed as you claim, they would know the future, which they do not.

[Kreuzritter]

It is said that Satan has faith.

Angels don't need faith; they behold God directly.

Satan does not and angels did not enjoy the Beatific Vision before their testing; it is a grace bestowed upon them for their faith.

[Kreuzritter]

Why would Satan tempt Christ if he suspected He was the Messiah?

Why not? Why are we assuming that Satan understood the nature of the Messiah, the Incarnation, the Hypostatic Union? Why are we assuming he would have known that Christ could not sin because of His divine personhood, the union of His divine and human wills, or His enjoyment of the Beatific Vision? Why are we assuming that Satan understood the nature of Christ's redemptive work or how God would bring it about?

We are dealing with a being absorbed in his own pride and filled with malice. Why assume that Satan did not believe, in some way, that he could thwart God's plans, as he must have believed he had done before. As to the faith he has, well, it wasn't enough to quell his doubts, or how else could he have even attempted to raise himself up above the Most High? He might have known God exists by his intellect and by some mediate form of vision like Adam did, but he certainly must have had doubts about God's nature and omnipotence.

[Elizabeth]

Satan thought he was smarter than Christ.  Lots of demons are really, really smart and clever.

[Carleendiane]

Why would Satan tempt Christ if he suspected He was the Messiah?

Why not? Why are we assuming that Satan understood the nature of the Messiah, the Incarnation, the Hypostatic Union? Why are we assuming he would have known that Christ could not sin because of His divine personhood, the union of His divine and human wills, or His enjoyment of the Beatific Vision? Why are we assuming that Satan understood the nature of Christ's redemptive work or how God would bring it about?

We are dealing with a being absorbed in his own pride and filled with malice. Why assume that Satan did not believe, in some way, that he could thwart God's plans, as he must have believed he had done before. As to the faith he has, well, it wasn't enough to quell his doubts, or how else could he have even attempted to raise himself up above the Most High? He might have known God exists by his intellect and by some mediate form of vision like Adam did, but he certainly must have had doubts about God's nature and omnipotence.

Wait, didn't Satan know God as all the angels would have well before the fall? But knowing God, was not necessarily knowing Christ, was it? The God man may have always existed, but was He always known, as a familiar, to the angels?