"Limiting God", Michael Voris

[Greg]

There's certainly lots of straw men to choose from.  The vast majority of so called Catholics would welcome celebrity homosexual Michael Voris back today if he started a new media channel.  His celebrity is far more important to them than any silly notion of prudence or scandal.

You're not exceptional Gerard, you're the rule.

As you may remember 8 years ago I offered money for every comment that said Voris should not be in the Catholic media spaces as a former sodomite.  Nobody found any such comments.

[Gerard]

There's certainly lots of straw men to choose from.

Hah! What a self-owning statement. Maybe you should look up what the Straw Man fallacy is. 

One of my major gripes about Voris was his Straw Man tactics.  You share that characteristic in abundance.

The vast majority of so called Catholics would welcome celebrity homosexual Michael Voris back today if he started a new media channel.

Speculative at most. But, so what?  If a drunk can stay sober and they do a good job in some form. what's the problem? It's the market place at work.

His celebrity is far more important to them than any silly notion of prudence or scandal.

There's another example of you pulling a "Voris" tactic.  You're are creating a Straw Man by impugning motives of basically imaginary people to pursue your personal, emotional vendetta.

You're not exceptional Gerard, you're the rule.

No. I'd challenge you to prove it,but you can't. And you're too much of a lying sissy to admit it.

Yet, another characteristic you share with Voris and his less credible tactics. 

As you may remember 8 years ago I offered money for every comment that said Voris should not be in the Catholic media spaces as a former sodomite.  Nobody found any such comments.

And? Who cares? How does a cash outlay validate your position?  I could offer cash for anyone that can find someone arguing 2+2=5.  How about offering cash outlays to anyone who said it was impossible for him to relapse? How many will you find?

Let's look at the growing list based on what we know, right off the top of my head: 

1)Unhealthily, obsessed with the sin of homosexuality:  You and Voris

2) Willing to lie and Straw Man people who disagree: You and Voris

3) Offering material incentives to get people to agree: (Cruises, access, conferences) Voris, (cash bribes) You

4) Deliberately and selectively ignoring nuanced positions (except when your own vices are involved) Voris and You.  (self-justified lying for the "greater" purpose.)

5) Greater concern over making sure people are damned and punished "appropriately" according to your standards rather than accepting what God teaches and offers about redemption, salvation and amendment of life.  Voris (more concerned about Judas being damned than obeying the Church's dogmatic teaching) and similarly you wanting to dictate what should happen in Voris' life that has literally nothing to do with you.

6) Which leads right into obsessive desire to control: again, Voris and You. 

[Greg]

I warned.  I was 100% right

[Bonaventure]

Does Mel Gibson have a media channel where he teaches and preaches and publicly represents Catholicism including singling our bishops for being too conservative or not conservative enough?

No. Mel Gibson engaged in a much different venture. Don't try to narrow the focus so much that you get to ignore the similarity. That's akin to people equating LeFebvre and Padre Pio  blaming LeFebvre for not being docile and not resisting persecution like Padre Pio as if a cloistered monk has the same mission as a bishop. 

Gibson fell and Voris fell. Different ends of the spectrum of the same vice. 

How can you measure the good Voris did?

Voris was the only voice in the Vatican press pool that called out the language of "homosexuals bringing their gifts to the Church" You seem to forget that Voris was a lay person with the ability to reach outside of the traditionalist echo chamber and bring some fight to the apostasy in the Church and the anti-Catholicism of the age. None of the Neo-Catholics at the time would dare do what they are all doing nowadays.   

He had that "One True Faith" video series, which was very good.  Took on the accusations against Pius XII in a very accessible way, eventually championed the TLM and pointed out the problems that arose from Vatican II.

You can guess the measure of the good by the number of people that are disappointed in his fall and are praying for him. 

Sorry Gerard your analogy does not hold. Mel Gibson as scandalous as his behaviour is cannot be compared to Michael Voris because Gibson has not tried to do what Voris did.

Gibson messed up his marriage, which was probably induced as a consequence of his making the Passion, using the weaknesses he had long before he made the Passion. I personally think someone probably slipped him a mickey of some sort to set him off. But it could also have been solely the Devil. 

Voris fell from chastity, probably as a consequence of his work, he was first "outed" by homosexuals who hated his work.  And Voris also fell as a result of his vices and weaknesses from before his venue ever appeared. 

The analogy holds. Voris' sin is unnatural. Gibson's sin was actually sacrilegious because of the sacramental nature of the marriage.

But were Mel Gibson to repent and go back to his wife and family I would not think that between now and the end of his natural life he should make any sort of public prescriptions on Catholicism.

That's fine for you to think that, but what's particularly Catholic about that position instead of Calvinist Puritanism with a hint of Novationism and a twist of Quietism thrown in for good measure? 

You don't think Gibson was a perfect husband before he made the Passion do you?  Do you think he should have simply repented and never made the Passion?  Should the Passion of the Christ be banned and all physical copies destroyed?  All because Gibson wasn't perfect at the get go and has fallen into sin in this life?

I am disgusted that you'd compare this Faggot to Gibson.

Gibson did not create a supposedly Catholic "apostolate" wherein he set himself up as an arbiter of Catholic morality. Getting in the faces of bishops and clergy. Muckraking and calumniating the SSPX.

[Gerard]

I am disgusted that you'd compare this Faggot to Gibson.

Disgusted or not, the comparison was apt.  Your stupid reaction isn't.

Gibson did not create a supposedly Catholic "apostolate" wherein he set himself up as an arbiter of Catholic morality. Getting in the faces of bishops and clergy. Muckraking and calumniating the SSPX.

And?  I never said Voris did everything right, nor did I state that Voris didn't do a lot of things wrong. 

Where's your list of the things Voris didn't do that Gibson did pre and post "Passion" that are not actions that Gibson is particularly proud of nowadays? 

Oh, that's right,you just quoted me pointing out the glaringly obvious that you suddenly are blind to. 

I'm pretty disgusted by the intellectual dishonesty and the pimping and distortion of Catholicism by so called Catholics and their selective outrage and double standards.   

[Gerard]

I warned.  I was 100% right

Wow. Not a bit of reply to what I argued but a little victory dance instead. I see the Prots and Atheists I deal with do that quite a bit when they have nothing else. 

Let's look at that "victory."  You took a 50/50 gamble on whether a sinner would relapse. Amazing. 

Is that 100% right despite all of your prayers that you would be wrong? How much were you praying for him to grow in righteousness and sanctity or were you secretly hoping for a fall?   

If the latter, that kind of haughty pride in another's fall, that schadenfruede is going to put your tail right in Hell, no question about it.

I'll say a rosary tomorrow (Good Friday) for you and Voris together, so you both don't wind up in Hell.