Day of Reparation for Amazon Synod outrages

[Nazianzen]

Yes, we're fasting also.  I'm deeply impressed by this call to fast. 

For anybody who thinks politically, if you care about results, which is the quintessentially political outlook, be practical and adopt this practice. 

All the chatter in the world means next to nothing compared with this.

In the Immaculate,
Naz.

[awkwardcustomer]

It's a psy-op.

Psychological operations (PSYOP) are operations to convey selected information and indicators to audiences to influence their emotions, motives, and objective reasoning, and ultimately the behavior of governments, organizations, groups, and individuals.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_operations_(United_States)

And ....

Psychological warfare (PSYWAR), or the basic aspects of modern psychological operations (PSYOP), have been known by many other names or terms, including MISO, Psy Ops, political warfare, "Hearts and Minds", and propaganda. The term is used "to denote any action which is practiced mainly by psychological methods with the aim of evoking a planned psychological reaction in other people".

Various techniques are used, and are aimed at influencing a target audience's value system, belief system, emotions, motives, reasoning, or behavior. It is used to induce confessions or reinforce attitudes and behaviors favorable to the originator's objectives, and are sometimes combined with black operations or false flag tactics. It is also used to destroy the morale of enemies through tactics that aim to depress troops' psychological states.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_warfare

But pray and make reparation by all means. It won't do any harm.

Meanwhile I shall endeavour to increase my devotion to the wonderous Holy Trinity, the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost.  Right now, more than anything, I need their MALENESS.

[lauermar]

Praying on the knees, fasting and making reparation does us all a lot of good. This is an imitation of Christ's agony in the garden. He knew there will always be some who will deny grace and reject Him even as He died for them.

However, I agree with Awkward that social activism must accompany the reparation,  particularly post synod. There should be vigorous fraternal correction, in person with delegates and in media. There should be a formal call for Bergoglio's removal because of his blessing of idolatry in the synod. The tossing of pagan idols into the Tiber is one example of Catholic activism.

There is no such thing as "slightly separated brethren"  in Catholic teaching. Catholicism must be accepted or rejected as a whole. St. Paul said there is no sin that separates a baptized member from the church except the sins of apostasy and heresy. You can sin greatly and remain a church member, but if you deny the teachings you separate yourself from the church. This includes denial of Christ's divinity, His resurrection, worship of idols, and total apostasy. One who dies in that state without repentance goes to hell. The baptismal mark on the soul won't save him---in fact, it increases his punishment in hell.

There are some members here who think that Baptism guarantees salvation even if one has apostasized, but that isn't what the church teaches. It's a Protestant notion. No one can die in a state of unrepentant mortal sin before God and expect salvation.

[awkwardcustomer]

Exactly right. Recognize and resist is the perfect way to bow to the commands of your oppressor. So I believe you are correct when you said above that the SSPX is controlled opposition. A controlled opposition of their own making in which they most likely inadvertently volunteered.

Yes, agreed, inadvertently.

Until about the year 1,000 the local ordinary was responsible for declaring a Saint. Long before Trent and Vatican I where papal power was centralized through the codification of the universal Mass which eventually led to the concept of papal infallibility.

Now, imagine if you will, what would have happened if this extreme centralization never occurred? If the local bishop was still in charge of his diocese? The Tridentine Mass could never have been suppressed, or as it were, derogated. There were a number of bishops, and even cardinals, in the U.S. who would have never replaced the TLM. Therefore it would have never faded from the memory of normal, everyday Catholics. One wouldn't have to pick up and move to Idaho or some God forsaken place in Kansas, where God probably left his sandals, to experience the Catholic culture our ancestors experienced from time immemorial. That is not to say they have at all successfully replicated in these outposts.

So what does the SSPX, Michael Matt, Chris Ferrara, Father Gruener, and now even Michael Voris want to do? They want to try and right the ship at the highest level. With the Bishop of Rome. Talk about attacking windmills!

The answer is a reform, or return to normal, at the diocesan level.

In the meantime, Francis himself is talking about decentralization. Do you remember the outcry when Francis declared himself the Bishop of Rome? "How dare he do so", came the cry from the armchair theologians, as if to say, "we want to fight the entire behemoth to insure our failure and keep our businesses growing!". 

Francis is probably giving us a gift with his ideas concerning decentralization. Albeit inadvertently, just like his critics mentioned above. But the people who want a proper Liturgy and want to right the wrongs of Vatican II argue against it. We want to fight you on the level in which we cannot win.

What do trads argue about concerning canonization? They are concerned that the Devil's Advocate has been removed from the process. Never even thinking that the process doesn't even belong in the hands of Rome. So, in reality, the Bishop of Rome declaring Vatican II popes as Blessed or raising them to the Altars actually makes sense. Even if it be distasteful to those clamoring for a return to Tradition and the Mass of the Ages.

I've said a lot above. Think about it and it will give many a lot to marinate over.

But I will leave you with one other inconvenient fact. The Church was in crisis mode when St. John wrote the Apocalypse at Patmos. In retrospect it is most likely a necessary condition as it has been the usual, or normal, default position.

I'm not convinced there is an answer.  Perhaps the centralisation that you speak of is one example of the various corruptions that began to creep in just as Christendom reached its zenith during the High Middle Ages.  Isn't that the way things go here in the world?  Once the peak is reached, decay begins.  And so the Church began to centralise, and also went soft on Usuary, went mad for sensual Renaissance art, opened up the Sanctuary, introduced pews, and so on.

And here we are.  Once the peak is reached, it's downhill all the way and there's no going back.  God, in His spectacular Wisdom, knew this and so arranged the Gospel narrative accordingly, as a story with a beginning, a middle and an end.

[dellery]

It's a psy-op.

Psychological operations (PSYOP) are operations to convey selected information and indicators to audiences to influence their emotions, motives, and objective reasoning, and ultimately the behavior of governments, organizations, groups, and individuals.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_operations_(United_States)

And ....

Psychological warfare (PSYWAR), or the basic aspects of modern psychological operations (PSYOP), have been known by many other names or terms, including MISO, Psy Ops, political warfare, "Hearts and Minds", and propaganda. The term is used "to denote any action which is practiced mainly by psychological methods with the aim of evoking a planned psychological reaction in other people".

Various techniques are used, and are aimed at influencing a target audience's value system, belief system, emotions, motives, reasoning, or behavior. It is used to induce confessions or reinforce attitudes and behaviors favorable to the originator's objectives, and are sometimes combined with black operations or false flag tactics. It is also used to destroy the morale of enemies through tactics that aim to depress troops' psychological states.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_warfare

But pray and make reparation by all means. It won't do any harm.

Meanwhile I shall endeavour to increase my devotion to the wonderous Holy Trinity, the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost.  Right now, more than anything, I need their MALENESS.

Sounds like you need a husband more than anything.
This is ridiculous to label a call for prayer and fasting a 'psyop'.
What happens when people do start doing things and you accuse them of running another 'psyop'?
Besides all of the above, a call for reparation is doing something, and generally, before embarking on a great or dangerous task, it's good to fast and pray beforehand since we are so dependent on God's protection.
Keep in mind that the way events unfold do not have to conform to your views on reality and if you're honest you'll find yourself being surprised and having to admit you were wrong from time to time.

A good 'psyop' would be one that gets devout Catholics to turn against themselves, and away from the Church, toward the right-wing of the revolutionary dialectic. A torrent of half-baked conspiratorial propaganda would ensure the victims couldn't tell up from down and always had the collar of confusion tight around their neck. When the shepherds of these Catholics come to gather the flock they would be rejected and driven off by the very people awaiting them.

[abc123]

There are some members here who think that Baptism guarantees salvation even if one has apostasized, but that isn't what the church teaches. It's a Protestant notion.

That Baptism guarantees salvation is about as far from a "Protestant notion" as I can think of. Not sure where you came up with it.

[lauermar]

I did not come up with the notion that Baptism guarantees salvation for unrepentant sinners, I said some members believe that. It is a Protestant idea to think that once you accept Jesus as your personal savior, you don't need confession in order to be saved. So stop equivocating.

Now here is Catholic social activism. https://www.churchmilitant.com/news/article/rome-banner-denounces-amazon-synod

[mikemac]

Mike, Viganò and all like him do not seem to have noticed the new mass. 

Frankly, they are like Anglo-Catholics warning their fellow Anglicans in 1929 that if they are not careful the authorities will authorise contraceptives and the faithful will adopt a new religion...

In the Immaculate,
Naz.

So you don't think the Church of Santa Maria in Traspontina and St. Peter's Basilica should be re-consecrated like Archbishop Viganò suggested?

[awkwardcustomer]

It's a psy-op.

Psychological operations (PSYOP) are operations to convey selected information and indicators to audiences to influence their emotions, motives, and objective reasoning, and ultimately the behavior of governments, organizations, groups, and individuals.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_operations_(United_States)

And ....

Psychological warfare (PSYWAR), or the basic aspects of modern psychological operations (PSYOP), have been known by many other names or terms, including MISO, Psy Ops, political warfare, "Hearts and Minds", and propaganda. The term is used "to denote any action which is practiced mainly by psychological methods with the aim of evoking a planned psychological reaction in other people".

Various techniques are used, and are aimed at influencing a target audience's value system, belief system, emotions, motives, reasoning, or behavior. It is used to induce confessions or reinforce attitudes and behaviors favorable to the originator's objectives, and are sometimes combined with black operations or false flag tactics. It is also used to destroy the morale of enemies through tactics that aim to depress troops' psychological states.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_warfare

But pray and make reparation by all means. It won't do any harm.

Meanwhile I shall endeavour to increase my devotion to the wonderous Holy Trinity, the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost.  Right now, more than anything, I need their MALENESS.

Sounds like you need a husband more than anything.
This is ridiculous to label a call for prayer and fasting a 'psyop'.
What happens when people do start doing things and you accuse them of running another 'psyop'?
Besides all of the above, a call for reparation is doing something, and generally, before embarking on a great or dangerous task, it's good to fast and pray beforehand since we are so dependent on God's protection.
Keep in mind that the way events unfold do not have to conform to your views on reality and if you're honest you'll find yourself being surprised and having to admit you were wrong from time to time.

A good 'psyop' would be one that gets devout Catholics to turn against themselves, and away from the Church, toward the right-wing of the revolutionary dialectic. A torrent of half-baked conspiratorial propaganda would ensure the victims couldn't tell up from down and always had the collar of confusion tight around their neck. When the shepherds of these Catholics come to gather the flock they would be rejected and driven off by the very people awaiting them.

Sounds like you need a husband more than anything.

A cheap and nasty comment.

I thought you were better than that.

This is ridiculous to label a call for prayer and fasting a 'psyop'.

Okay, maybe this particular post didn't point out clearly enough what I meant.  But as I stated earlier in the thread the psy-op consists of promoting reparation and at the same time refusing to call out the heretics in the Vatican, even to the extent of criticising those who do, as in the recent case of the conservative Catholic academics who wrote the Open Letter denouncing Bergoglio as a heretic and calling for his removal.

It's the combination that is the problem.  The R&R solution is to ask the Trad laity to do penance and make reparation for the sins of the heretics and apostates who are destroying the Church, but to refrain from calling out the heretics and apostates who carry on their work nevertheless.  This renders the Trad laity voiceless, passive and somehow held responsible for carrying the burden of the sins of these men.

Besides all of the above, a call for reparation is doing something, and generally, before embarking on a great or dangerous task, it's good to fast and pray beforehand since we are so dependent on God's protection.

Of course, except there is no "great and dangerous task" being prepared for.  In this case, the fasting and praying is an end in itself.

A good 'psyop' would be one that gets devout Catholics to turn against themselves, and away from the Church, toward the right-wing of the revolutionary dialectic. A torrent of half-baked conspiratorial propaganda would ensure the victims couldn't tell up from down and always had the collar of confusion tight around their neck. When the shepherds of these Catholics come to gather the flock they would be rejected and driven off by the very people awaiting them.

And an even better psy-op would be to convince devout Catholics that there was nothing they could do about the current crisis except fast and pray.  This would leave the revolutionaries in the Vatican to carry on their work without any embarrassing questions being levelled at them, such as - Are you actually Catholic?

Why not make reparation AND call out the heretics, or at least refrain from criticising those who do.  Why give the heretics a free ride?

[dellery]

A cheap and nasty comment.

I thought you were better than that.

I'm sorry, that didn't come across the way I meant it to then.

Please accept my apology here because it was not my intent to insult you.

[Nazianzen]

Mike, Viganò and all like him do not seem to have noticed the new mass. 

Frankly, they are like Anglo-Catholics warning their fellow Anglicans in 1929 that if they are not careful the authorities will authorise contraceptives and the faithful will adopt a new religion...

In the Immaculate,
Naz.

So you don't think the Church of Santa Maria in Traspontina and St. Peter's Basilica should be re-consecrated like Archbishop Viganò suggested?

Well, what Rite would be used for the consecration, and would you be preventing the new mass from defiling those buildings again immediately after?

Oh, no, that's not the program, is it?

In other words, the problem is much deeper, and broader, than people like Viganò think it is.  He is, objectively considered, merely trying to save the credibility of V2 by opposing some of its worst fruits.   Just like Ratzinger, actually.  And if you read Fr. Pagliarani's words, that's what he is saying, repeatedly. 

So the day of reparation isn't a psy-op of any kind, it's precisely what you'd do if you held the Catholic doctrines on prayer and sacrifice, especially (but not solely) if you haven't the power to fix the problem.  And anything else, if this analysis of the crisis is right, is counter-productive because it's lying to yourself.  Further, in the light of that last point, Viganò doesn't have the power to arrange any re-consecrations, Francis does, and again, even if Novus Ordo devoted clerics did do it, the last case would be worse than the first, because many of the faithful would think what they thought when Summorum Pontificem (with its lies and its relativising the true mass in order to further establish the new mass) appeared - we have turned the corner.

In the Immaculate,
Naz.

[awkwardcustomer]

A cheap and nasty comment.

I thought you were better than that.

I'm sorry, that didn't come across the way I meant it to then.

Please accept my apology here because it was not my intent to insult you.

Perhaps I didn't express what I meant properly, which is probably because I'm not sure how to.

Your quip illustrates the difficulty of expressing a devotion to the Holy Trinity based (partly) on Their 'maleness'?  I mean, how can 'maleness' be expressed as something spiritual, not physical, if you see what I mean.

Perhaps by replacing that term with associated virtues such as vigour, robustness, strength etc.

[Nazianzen]

Just to add to the point about what the program is, maybe watch this, and tell me if you can work it out:



That's Taylor Marshall, who seems to be headed in the right direction, and Michael Matt, who has no clue about nearly anything, bless him.  He says "we're going to war."  What exactly will that consist in?  Conferences, articles, marches?  Politics, aimed at making men without faith feel that they have to set about restoring the Church.  It's incredible.

Again, SSPX people hope to be saved by the Church; Michael Matt, Chris Ferrara, and all that ilk think that they will save the Church.

In the Immaculate,
Naz.

[Sojourn]

Perhaps it's time to focus on mental prayer and taking recourse in acts of contrition.

[abc123]

It is a Protestant idea to think that once you accept Jesus as your personal savior, you don't need confession in order to be saved. So stop equivocating.

Repentance and confession of sin are aspects of saving faith. Without these one has not "accepted Christ." Stop misrepresenting views you disagree with.