Incurring Debt for Elderly Parents

MamaBearJMJ · February 02, 2024, 06:56:17 PM

I'd like to get opinions on our situation. My husband's parents are retired and living on social security. They are barely making it month to month and it won't be long before cost of living is so high they will gradually get behind and struggle to get by financially. One of my husbands siblings has land and wants to move my in laws mobile home to their property. My in laws like the idea but have no money to help with the cost of making that happen. There are significant costs involved for getting septic, utilities installed, moving the home, etc. The true cost is not concrete but right now I would say at least 15k, and that's probably conservative.

The sibling who is offering the land is doing the best they can to help but can only afford so much. My FIL has had two heart attacks so it would be nice for them to be in close proximity as well.

However, my husband and I are probably the ones in the best position to make this happen. But we aren't in a great place, either. It may even put us into debt, which we were already trying to get out of.

On the other hand, we have an obligation to care for elderly parents. I worry if we wait the situation will become more drastic later. My in laws have also said they don't want to live with any of their children.

We have no savings and no retirement, except a rental property we invested in and are still paying for. If we helped, we would wait until we had money in our business and take a lump sum distribution personally. But then that may put us behind on our business. We have 5 minor children. But among the siblings, my husband is still probably in the best position. Two other siblings can't contribute anything. Another we are unsure how much they could help.

I would help regardless, but our gift would be just that as my in laws have made the sibling with the land the one in charge of their finances at the end of life and they would inherent the property of the home. So we would be handing over thousands of dollars without any return.

If I had it sitting in the bank I wouldn't hesitate. I think my only hesitation is the economy and just not knowing with any certainty we won't regret for our own family. On the other hand I lean towards trusting God will bless us for helping them. I still lean towards doing it.

I just wanted to hear some other opinions to see what others would do.

drummerboy · February 02, 2024, 11:01:35 PM

Nope. Don't do it. You have 5 mouths of your own to feed, you are under no moral obligation to incur debt. And frankly, your in-laws at this stage don't have the luxury of choosing not to live with one of their children or one their own. They'll have to face stark reality.

diaduit · February 03, 2024, 05:52:55 AM

Yep, I agree with drummerboy, kind of lost my sympathy when they said they don't want to live with their children, I get it but at this stage they are not entitled to put you under severe financial stress. If you don't have savings then you don't have the ability to make this happen.

Over here in Ireland if someone has land and they need a cash injection, they would sell a site like a half an acre for someone to build a home, could your sibling do this to get the cash injection needed? is that a thing where you live?

Baylee · February 03, 2024, 07:03:31 AM

Quote from: MamaBearJMJ on February 02, 2024, 06:56:17 PMI'd like to get opinions on our situation. My husband's parents are retired and living on social security. They are barely making it month to month and it won't be long before cost of living is so high they will gradually get behind and struggle to get by financially. One of my husbands siblings has land and wants to move my in laws mobile home to their property. My in laws like the idea but have no money to help with the cost of making that happen. There are significant costs involved for getting septic, utilities installed, moving the home, etc. The true cost is not concrete but right now I would say at least 15k, and that's probably conservative.

The sibling who is offering the land is doing the best they can to help but can only afford so much. My FIL has had two heart attacks so it would be nice for them to be in close proximity as well.

However, my husband and I are probably the ones in the best position to make this happen. But we aren't in a great place, either. It may even put us into debt, which we were already trying to get out of.

On the other hand, we have an obligation to care for elderly parents. I worry if we wait the situation will become more drastic later. My in laws have also said they don't want to live with any of their children.

We have no savings and no retirement, except a rental property we invested in and are still paying for. If we helped, we would wait until we had money in our business and take a lump sum distribution personally. But then that may put us behind on our business. We have 5 minor children. But among the siblings, my husband is still probably in the best position. Two other siblings can't contribute anything. Another we are unsure how much they could help.

I would help regardless, but our gift would be just that as my in laws have made the sibling with the land the one in charge of their finances at the end of life and they would inherent the property of the home. So we would be handing over thousands of dollars without any return.

If I had it sitting in the bank I wouldn't hesitate. I think my only hesitation is the economy and just not knowing with any certainty we won't regret for our own family. On the other hand I lean towards trusting God will bless us for helping them. I still lean towards doing it.

I just wanted to hear some other opinions to see what others would do.

Don't jump into this. I can tell you from personal experience (and I'd rather not get into the sordid details) that helping the elderly in-laws could prove to be problematic with them/their children. What appears to be the right thing to do at the time could very well bite you in the you-know-what down the road.

Tell me more about this. What property is this? I thought you said they have a mobile home. I wouldn't consider going into debt (and we did) unless there was some sort of financial benefit. It sounds like this other sibling would get all the benefits and you would only have the debt.

Also, did anyone ask you to help out or is this just your idea? What does your husband think?

Michael Wilson · February 03, 2024, 09:31:54 AM

You have your children to take care of; you should not go into debt. There has to be a better solution.

Baylee · February 03, 2024, 10:06:16 AM

I just thought of another possibility. If they are that financially strapped, perhaps they should apply for Medicaid.

Mushroom · February 03, 2024, 10:46:05 AM

How old are they? Sorry, but at their age, they should have savings and be in a better financial position than you. And they don't have dependents anymore like children living with them. Save your money for your children so you can provide for them when they need a house or something. I would never want to put my children in that situation, especially in the economy we live in. If you do end up helping them financially, what would it be like in the long-run? I'm sorry, it sounds tough. Personally, if my parents needed money in a pinch and could pay me back, I'd help them. But, financing their living costs would be a hard no.

MamaBearJMJ · February 04, 2024, 04:10:48 AM

Quote from: drummerboy on February 02, 2024, 11:01:35 PMNope. Don't do it. You have 5 mouths of your own to feed, you are under no moral obligation to incur debt. And frankly, your in-laws at this stage don't have the luxury of choosing not to live with one of their children or one their own. They'll have to face stark reality.

Perhaps. One of the reasons they can't live with us is because they are smokers and they don't feel comfortable smoking in people's homes. I have a history of asthma and one of my kids has allergies and it wouldn't be healthy for them to smoke in our home. With the climate we have, it's not practical for them to always go outside. And they've tried quitting over the years and the reality is it's never going to happen.

MamaBearJMJ · February 04, 2024, 04:14:54 AM

Quote from: diaduit on February 03, 2024, 05:52:55 AMYep, I agree with drummerboy, kind of lost my sympathy when they said they don't want to live with their children, I get it but at this stage they are not entitled to put you under severe financial stress. If you don't have savings then you don't have the ability to make this happen.

Over here in Ireland if someone has land and they need a cash injection, they would sell a site like a half an acre for someone to build a home, could your sibling do this to get the cash injection needed? is that a thing where you live?

See my replay to drummer boy above regarding why they can't live with the kids. We do have the ability to make it happen, it just may bite us later. We can wait until our business has cash and pull it out as I said. This just lowers the amount of working capital we have, which may mean if business is slow it puts us behind.

Regarding selling a section of the land and parceling it off- I don't know how realistic that is. Sometimes there are covenants in place and where they are it's not the type of place to have small sections. It's rural where all the surrounding families have larger parcels. With the expenses to getting separate utilities ran, most buyers are going to want a larger parcel of land.

MamaBearJMJ · February 04, 2024, 04:25:32 AM

Quote from: Baylee on February 03, 2024, 07:03:31 AM
Quote from: MamaBearJMJ on February 02, 2024, 06:56:17 PMI'd like to get opinions on our situation. My husband's parents are retired and living on social security. They are barely making it month to month and it won't be long before cost of living is so high they will gradually get behind and struggle to get by financially. One of my husbands siblings has land and wants to move my in laws mobile home to their property. My in laws like the idea but have no money to help with the cost of making that happen. There are significant costs involved for getting septic, utilities installed, moving the home, etc. The true cost is not concrete but right now I would say at least 15k, and that's probably conservative.

The sibling who is offering the land is doing the best they can to help but can only afford so much. My FIL has had two heart attacks so it would be nice for them to be in close proximity as well.

However, my husband and I are probably the ones in the best position to make this happen. But we aren't in a great place, either. It may even put us into debt, which we were already trying to get out of.

On the other hand, we have an obligation to care for elderly parents. I worry if we wait the situation will become more drastic later. My in laws have also said they don't want to live with any of their children.

We have no savings and no retirement, except a rental property we invested in and are still paying for. If we helped, we would wait until we had money in our business and take a lump sum distribution personally. But then that may put us behind on our business. We have 5 minor children. But among the siblings, my husband is still probably in the best position. Two other siblings can't contribute anything. Another we are unsure how much they could help.

I would help regardless, but our gift would be just that as my in laws have made the sibling with the land the one in charge of their finances at the end of life and they would inherent the property of the home. So we would be handing over thousands of dollars without any return.

If I had it sitting in the bank I wouldn't hesitate. I think my only hesitation is the economy and just not knowing with any certainty we won't regret for our own family. On the other hand I lean towards trusting God will bless us for helping them. I still lean towards doing it.

I just wanted to hear some other opinions to see what others would do.

Don't jump into this. I can tell you from personal experience (and I'd rather not get into the sordid details) that helping the elderly in-laws could prove to be problematic with them/their children. What appears to be the right thing to do at the time could very well bite you in the you-know-what down the road.

Tell me more about this. What property is this? I thought you said they have a mobile home. I wouldn't consider going into debt (and we did) unless there was some sort of financial benefit. It sounds like this other sibling would get all the benefits and you would only have the debt.

Also, did anyone ask you to help out or is this just your idea? What does your husband think?

So, a few years ago my husband's sister bought several acres of land (about 10-20 acres, I don't remember exactly). the sister owns a home on the land. My in laws have a mobile home and they pay lot rent in a trailer court every month. So they own the mobile home but have to pay $600+ a month rent to live in the trailer court. The lot rent goes up about $50 every year.

As far as if they have asked for help.... sort of. Both the in laws and the sister have been having conversations with us about doing it and what all would be needed to make it happen. The sister sent out a group text to the family asking everyone if we knew contractors etc that could do some of the work for cheaper so it's more affordable. After that, we talked to the in laws and one of the questions my husband asked them was if they would have any funds to contribute to this. They said no. They said they would LIKE to move there for safety and being closer to family, but can't do it on their own. They said they aren't trying to force anything and could stay where they are. But my father in law thinks the economy will bounce back. Which it won't. THeir bills keep going up. My husband asked them point blank if they would accept financial help to make the move happen. Mother in law was reluctant, father in law was not opposed. I think father in law also wants to think ahead for mother in law, because if father in law dies the mother in law will not be able to afford the rent anymore since she won't receive his social security check after he dies. Or vice versa if mother in law dies. My husband wants to help and wants to honor his parents, but also knows the reality of the expenses.

MamaBearJMJ · February 04, 2024, 04:28:45 AM

Quote from: Baylee on February 03, 2024, 10:06:16 AMI just thought of another possibility. If they are that financially strapped, perhaps they should apply for Medicaid.

I'm not understanding your comment. They already have Medicaid, and they have to pay for the plan premiums each month. The free plans would not cover my father in laws necessary medications for his heart, and they wouldn't be able to afford it without the insurance. Medicaid doesn't cover rent or utilities. They are also on food assistance. Not sure how having medicaid fixes this problem.

MamaBearJMJ · February 04, 2024, 04:42:40 AM

Quote from: Mushroom on February 03, 2024, 10:46:05 AMHow old are they? Sorry, but at their age, they should have savings and be in a better financial position than you. And they don't have dependents anymore like children living with them. Save your money for your children so you can provide for them when they need a house or something. I would never want to put my children in that situation, especially in the economy we live in. If you do end up helping them financially, what would it be like in the long-run? I'm sorry, it sounds tough. Personally, if my parents needed money in a pinch and could pay me back, I'd help them. But, financing their living costs would be a hard no.

They will turn 70 years old this year. While they should be in a better financial position, they aren't. And there's nothing that can be done about it now.

One thing we are considering is asking them to help pay some of it back. If they move, they will save $600 a month in rent. So we aren't just getting a loan to pay for their everyday living- it would just be to physically move them to a different location and making that location livable with utilities. It's' a rural area so there is no water, electric, or gas. We'd have to get that all up and running. So I was thinking about suggesting they pay $300 a month. They makes things not so tight each month for them, but still helping pay us back. However, we don't want to *expect* it, because the reality is they could drop dead tomorrow for all we know, and then we won't get anything. What I would really like to see is some of the other siblings stepping up to help since they are able bodied working people. But, can't force them to.

Also, while there isn't a financial benefit for us, there is one benefit: As they age, the responsibility to provide care, transportation, etc for them will default to the sister and her family. They will be in close proximity and will be the ones caring for them day to day when needed. Since I still have small children, this is a big bonus for us. I can't always drop what I'm doing and care for them. I mean, I would if there was no one else and I had to, but it would be nice to know it wouldn't fall on me all the time. As of right now, my husband and I live the closest to them. We were the ones they called when my father in law had a heart attack, and my husband had to drive them to the hospital. So there is an advantage in that it will make sense for the sister's family to step in for various things.

Baylee · February 04, 2024, 06:32:54 AM

How does the sister benefit from their moving onto their land? They will inherit the mobile home when they die. Will they then rent it out/sell it?

I would think that if you were to drop the huge amount of money you would be dropping, you should own it. Could your in-laws sell it to you, so it is in YOUR names (and sister relinquishes any right to it when they die)? The $ you borrow would then be a mortgage. Then you and your husband can do whatever you wish to do with it when they die.

You really want to make sure that whatever you do, if anything, there are no strings attached with your husband's siblings/families.

This situation does seem like quite the pickle, and I can relate to it very much. However, I think this has the potential to turn ugly down the road. You guys put down all the money and your sister-in-law (and husband?) reaps all of the benefits. NOT GOOD.

You definitely should/need to consult with a lawyer. Don't go forward assuming that family could never bite you in the butt down the road.

MamaBearJMJ · February 04, 2024, 04:05:33 PM

Quote from: Baylee on February 04, 2024, 06:32:54 AMHow does the sister benefit from their moving onto their land? They will inherit the mobile home when they die. Will they then rent it out/sell it?

I would think that if you were to drop the huge amount of money you would be dropping, you should own it. Could your in-laws sell it to you, so it is in YOUR names (and sister relinquishes any right to it when they die)? The $ you borrow would then be a mortgage. Then you and your husband can do whatever you wish to do with it when they die.

You really want to make sure that whatever you do, if anything, there are no strings attached with your husband's siblings/families.

This situation does seem like quite the pickle, and I can relate to it very much. However, I think this has the potential to turn ugly down the road. You guys put down all the money and your sister-in-law (and husband?) reaps all of the benefits. NOT GOOD.

You definitely should/need to consult with a lawyer. Don't go forward assuming that family could never bite you in the butt down the road.

The sister plans to rent it out to their adult children after my in laws die. The sister has 8 children from adults down to age 9 or so. With the cost of living rising, it's becoming very common in our area for adult children, including married children with kids, to continue living with their parents for some time.

So the mobile home is worth about $80,000. We don't have an exact cost yet on getting everything livable but we are estimating $20,000, hopefully a little less if others are contributing. I don't consider that a huge amount of money or anything close to a "mortgage". That's a small personal loan amount. I definitely am aware things can and may go sour between people.

But honestly, I'm kind of baffled by these responses. While money is definitely something we should be good stewards with, and it's definitely a practical consideration given the circumstances, this is a more of a moral question on our duties towards our parents (and where that line is drawn). What benefits do the adult children have? The benefit of knowing our parents/in laws don't have to worry about if they can pay their bills this month or if they have to skip a meal and fast because money is so tight. The benefit of them being able to live out their final years in a nice rural private area close to family. That's such a blessing to give to parents. While $15k-$20k is a sizeable amount of money, in the grand scheme of things it's a drop in hat, and it's not going to make or break us. It may set us back a year or two, if anything. I'd be much more hesitant if we were talking $50k.

Hypothetically we could ask the in laws to pay a portion monthly towards reimbursing us. Perhaps if they die before finishing their side of the deal, they could make an agreement that if the sister rents it out she would contribute towards paying us back. It is a possibility if everyone is agreeable.

I'm just curious what others are doing with their elderly parents. Surely not everyone is financially set in their old age or can fully care for themselves up to the end. Are adult children just not taking care of them? We have a duty to honor our parents, and it doesn't seem like honoring them to let them fend for themselves.

Baylee · February 04, 2024, 04:12:04 PM

Ah so the sister will also get additional money from the home and pay nothing in for it. I already don't trust her.

It doesn't sound like you really wanted our opinions. Do what you want. I'm done here.