Protestant Elements in the Novus Ordo

[kmo_9000]

I wanted to make a thread about this to narrow it down. Many mainstream liturgists readily admit that the Novus Ordo has protestant liturgical elements in it.

It's a bit hard to narrow this subject down because people confuse this with saying "the Church is protestant" or "the Mass is invalid."

However, there are clearly elements in the Novus Ordo that come from protestant liturgical traditions. Klaus Gamber gives examples in his book where the new order Mass is "obviously an adaptation of the Protestant example." Ancedotally, I knew a Baptist Minister who would regularly attend a Saturday evening Novus Ordo and told me all the protestent elements he saw in it.

Would it be possible for us to brainstorm and come up with a list of concreet examples of parts of the NO that are clearly following Protestant liturgical ideas?

[drummerboy]

Pretty much the entire NO Mass lol!  The list would need a book to fill

[kmo_9000]

Pretty much the entire NO Mass lol!  The list would need a book to fill

That doesn't help when you are trying to convince someone of this.

[Jean Carrier]

I've read that removing the genuflection which immediately precedes the elevation was done for the sake of ecumenism with the Lutherans. The revised Confiteor likewise is nearly identical to the one used by Lutherans (though the BVM and Saints are tacked on to the end).

[Mushroom]

• Immodest dress and casual attire. Women don't veil even though it's Biblical. It's a sign that you can pick and choose what's in the Bible.
• Music is feel-good, guitar.
• Feminism (female lectors, women involvement).
• The need to reform the liturgy like The Protestant Reformation to make things "inclusive", no Latin, everyone "takes" Communion, fake Sign of Peace. Sacraments and liturgy are made simplistic.
• The Eucharist is not treated with the utmost respect, like kneeling to receive it on the tongue instead it's handled casually.
• The "Our Father" at the end has a Protestant which is "For yours is the kingdom and the power and the glory forever."
• Too much emphasis on abortion, not enough on contraception, hell, mortal sins (generally topics that make Protestants uncomfortable).
• Man is the centre of the liturgy, not God with the Priest facing the people, felt banners, the interior of the church looking bland and like a community centre. If you don't go up for Communion, you feel left out. If you don't participate in the Sign of Peace, you feel left out. The priest's role is being diminished when a layperson is also handing out Holy Communion.

Also this might help: https://fsspx.news/en/news-events/news/62-reasons-why-conscience-we-cannot-attend-new-mass-21017

[Baylee]

Practically all references to it being a "sacrifice" are gone.

[Jean Carrier]

• The "Our Father" at the end has a Protestant which is "For yours is the kingdom and the power and the glory forever."

This one isn't protestant per se; it actually originates from the Eastern Rites and has a similar antiquity and origin to our own Mysterium Fidei in the words of institution. From there it made it into the Byzantine copies of the Gospels which would latter be compiled unto a single reclension by Erasmus in his Textus Receptus.  It was, of course, the TR which was chiefly relied upon by the translators of the KJV, and the rest is history.

[awkward customer]

 The Altar has become a table.  Mass is said facing the people.  The Sanctuary has been blown open with lay people traipsing in and out to do the readings etc.  Communion is given in the hand.......

The list goes on and on. But it can all be summed up by the following statement, which is -

The People of God celebrate the Eucharist with the Priest presiding.

I think this was originally in the GIRM, or was it Sacrosanctum Concilium?  At any rate, it is clear from this statement alone that the NO is not the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass.

But it's not just down to Protestant elements in the NO. The whole thing reeks of Modernism. 

[awkward customer]

Practically all references to it being a "sacrifice" are gone.

Particularly a propitiatory sacrifice.  They've done everything they can to play down the propitiatory nature of the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass.

Because the People of God don't sin and propitiation isn't required. 

[kmo_9000]

• Immodest dress and casual attire. Women don't veil even though it's Biblical. It's a sign that you can pick and choose what's in the Bible.
• Music is feel-good, guitar.
• Feminism (female lectors, women involvement).
• The need to reform the liturgy like The Protestant Reformation to make things "inclusive", no Latin, everyone "takes" Communion, fake Sign of Peace. Sacraments and liturgy are made simplistic.
• The Eucharist is not treated with the utmost respect, like kneeling to receive it on the tongue instead it's handled casually.
• The "Our Father" at the end has a Protestant which is "For yours is the kingdom and the power and the glory forever."
• Too much emphasis on abortion, not enough on contraception, hell, mortal sins (generally topics that make Protestants uncomfortable).
• Man is the centre of the liturgy, not God with the Priest facing the people, felt banners, the interior of the church looking bland and like a community centre. If you don't go up for Communion, you feel left out. If you don't participate in the Sign of Peace, you feel left out. The priest's role is being diminished when a layperson is also handing out Holy Communion.

Also this might help: https://fsspx.news/en/news-events/news/62-reasons-why-conscience-we-cannot-attend-new-mass-21017

The problem with some of these is that things like immodest dress are not part of the liturgy or "protestant" in particular.

The doxology after the Our Father is protestant in our Latin or Western context since it was protestant's who first started doing it. These are the kind of examples I'm looking for.

Removing the genuflection which immediately precedes the elevations are another good example of something that is in the rubrics.

[Kent]

It has no offertory.

[drummerboy]

I too would add lay distribution of Communion; many protestants simply pass a tray with hosts and Dixie cups of wine around, many Catholic parishes aren't far behind with armies of ministers distributing.

 And let's not forget Communion under both species: a trademark of protestants ever since Jan Hus.

[andy]

62 Reasons Why In Conscience, We Cannot Attend the New Mass

[Michael Wilson]

Read the original "Brief Critical Study of the N.O.M" aka "The Ottaviani Intervention" online
http://archives.sspx.org/SSPX_FAQs/brief_critical_study_of_the_new_order_of_mass-ottaviani-intervention.pdf;
Refer frequently to the end notes.
and if you want further and  a more thorough study: "The Work of Human Hands" by Fr. Anthony Cekada.
Not available online but can be purchased. 

[aquinas138]

The doxology after the Our Father is protestant in our Latin or Western context since it was protestant's who first started doing it. These are the kind of examples I'm looking for.

Indeed, and though it has its origin in the East, the Novus Ordo doesn't use it like the Eastern rites. Whereas the NO has its version of "Libera nos, quaesumus" immediately after the Pater and makes the doxology the people's response to that prayer, in the Coptic and Syriac rites, the doxology is just added to the end of the Lord's prayer without interruption (the text is slightly different in each rite). In the Byzantine rite, the doxology is reserved to a priest, and even deacons, when leading services outside the Divine Liturgy, omit the doxology or replace it with a customary replacement (the Jesus Prayer or others by local tradition).