If George V helped the Tsar escape would the Bolsheviks have been defeated?

Started by Antoninus, September 09, 2022, 10:33:50 AM

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Antoninus

September 09, 2022, 10:33:50 AM
I think it is possible. If Tsar Nicholas and his family remained alive, it would have given the White armies a greater cause to rally around. Unfortunately,  Elizabeth's grandfather betrayed his cousin, when he may have been able to say millions of people from the scourge of Communism.

https://www.rbth.com/history/329281-why-did-king-george-betray-nicholas

diaduit

#1
September 09, 2022, 01:20:08 PM
Yes I believe so but George was a stinkin rotten freemason who obeyed his Jew masters even over the life of someone who was extremely close him

Justin Martyr

#2
September 09, 2022, 02:35:30 PM
If I remember correctly he had plans in place and was trying to, but Parliament refused to give George V the resources necessary to do it. Even if an attempt was made, Nicholas II had already declined an offer to leave once before when the republic was established, so I doubt he was would have been willing. He was determined to go down with the ship so to speak, like Constantine XI Palaiologos before him.
The least departure from Tradition leads to a scorning of every dogma of the Faith.
St. Photios the Great, Encyclical to the Eastern Patriarchs

CANON I: As for all persons who dare to violate the definition of the holy and great Synod convened in Nicaea in the presence of Eusebeia, the consort of the most God-beloved Emperor Constantine, concerning the holy festival of the soterial Pascha, we decree that they be excluded from Communion and be outcasts from the Church if they persist more captiously in objecting to the decisions that have been made as most fitting in regard thereto; and let these things be said with reference to laymen. But if any of the person occupying prominent positions in the Church, such as a Bishop, or a Presbyter, or a Deacon, after the adoption of this definition, should dare to insist upon having his own way, to the perversion of the laity, and to the disturbance of the church, and upon celebrating Pascha along with the Jews, the holy Synod has hence judged that person to be an alien to the Church, on the ground that he has not only become guilty of sin by himself, but has also been the cause of corruption and perversion among the multitude. Accordingly, it not only deposes such persons from the liturgy, but also those who dare to commune with them after their deposition. Moreover, those who have been deposed are to be deprived of the external honor too of which the holy Canon and God's priesthood have partaken.
The Council of Antioch 341, recieved by the Council of Chalcedon

Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, have mercy on me a sinner.

awkward customer

#3
September 09, 2022, 03:09:34 PM
What I heard was that the UK Parliament was willing to give refuge to Czar Nicholas and family, but that George V vetoed it.

Could it be that an agreement was made between the king and the banksters of the City of London just along the road from the palace?  The majority of the European monarchies were to be removed but a few kept on to provide cover.  The Windsors would be allowed to survive in order to maintain a cloak of tradition and ritual over the nefarious deeds of the City, rather like the Grimaldis provide a similar cover for the tax exiles of Monaco.

George V agreed and the Romanovs were no more.



Justin Martyr

#4
September 09, 2022, 03:45:05 PM
I'll have to look it up, it's been forever since I last read about it.

Personally I think Nicholas II and his family's death likely gained for them the graces to repent of their errors and die as Catholics, and as such are true Martyrs; but this is of course merely a speculation.
The least departure from Tradition leads to a scorning of every dogma of the Faith.
St. Photios the Great, Encyclical to the Eastern Patriarchs

CANON I: As for all persons who dare to violate the definition of the holy and great Synod convened in Nicaea in the presence of Eusebeia, the consort of the most God-beloved Emperor Constantine, concerning the holy festival of the soterial Pascha, we decree that they be excluded from Communion and be outcasts from the Church if they persist more captiously in objecting to the decisions that have been made as most fitting in regard thereto; and let these things be said with reference to laymen. But if any of the person occupying prominent positions in the Church, such as a Bishop, or a Presbyter, or a Deacon, after the adoption of this definition, should dare to insist upon having his own way, to the perversion of the laity, and to the disturbance of the church, and upon celebrating Pascha along with the Jews, the holy Synod has hence judged that person to be an alien to the Church, on the ground that he has not only become guilty of sin by himself, but has also been the cause of corruption and perversion among the multitude. Accordingly, it not only deposes such persons from the liturgy, but also those who dare to commune with them after their deposition. Moreover, those who have been deposed are to be deprived of the external honor too of which the holy Canon and God's priesthood have partaken.
The Council of Antioch 341, recieved by the Council of Chalcedon

Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, have mercy on me a sinner.

diaduit

#5
September 09, 2022, 11:55:22 PM
Quote from: awkward customer on September 09, 2022, 03:09:34 PM
What I heard was that the UK Parliament was willing to give refuge to Czar Nicholas and family, but that George V vetoed it.

Could it be that an agreement was made between the king and the banksters of the City of London just along the road from the palace?  The majority of the European monarchies were to be removed but a few kept on to provide cover.  The Windsors would be allowed to survive in order to maintain a cloak of tradition and ritual over the nefarious deeds of the City, rather like the Grimaldis provide a similar cover for the tax exiles of Monaco.

George V agreed and the Romanovs were no more.

This is what I have read too.

They were a truly devoted couple and loved each other dearly, raised their children without spoiling them and I do hope they are in heaven as they were treated horrifically in those last couple of months.

Greg

#6
September 26, 2022, 05:23:45 PM
If the person who decided to put Indians in call centres had been strangled at birth would I have led a happier life?  Or would some other bastard told the CEO it was a way to save money and make British people miserable.
Contentment is knowing that you're right. Happiness is knowing that someone else is wrong.

Melkor

#7
September 26, 2022, 05:42:08 PM
Quote from: Greg on September 26, 2022, 05:23:45 PM
If the person who decided to put Indians in call centres had been strangled at birth would I have led a happier life?  Or would some other bastard told the CEO it was a way to save money and make British people miserable.

😂 dude that's funny! Same thing over here lol.
All that is gold does not glitter, not all those who wander are lost.

"Am I not here, I who am your mother?" Mary to Juan Diego

"Let a man walk ten miles steadily on a hot summer's day along a dusty English road, and he will soon discover why beer was invented." G.K. Chesterton

"Blessed are they that hunger and thirst after justice: for they shall have their fill." Jesus Christ

Julio

#8
October 08, 2022, 04:19:34 PM
Russia has been a land power since, Ivan. The Western nations have been looking at it as their rival. With more reasons when Peter and Catherine expanded the Russian powers in Europe and arguably in the world. So, when the Tsarist Kingdom was collapsing the West, including George, can see it as destruction of the rival in continental Europe. He was not going to help them. They could not had conceived that the communists shall create, Soviet Russia. Maybe they thought that those peasants shall just suffer more and destroy the whole nation till the oblivion. Perhaps, they'd forgotten that after the French Revolution, Napoleon caused severe destruction in Europe, akin to the way Stalin did it. The only difference is that, Stalin was used by the Anglophones against the Nazi Germans, but that is another story.

King Wenceslas

#9
November 25, 2022, 01:09:12 PM Last Edit: November 25, 2022, 01:14:06 PM by King Wenceslas
The age of Tsars, Monarchs had come to an end. If they had escaped, they would have been trapped in time, irrelevant like the monarchy in England and discarded like Emperor Carl.

The broad social movements that started in 1776 and 1789 were just too strong for monarchies to survive them for too long.

Joseph_3

#10
November 29, 2022, 09:58:30 PM
Unfortunately, probably not. The fleeing of the Tsar would've meant even a greater loss in prestige and the denial of his "martyr" status. The only thing that could've prevented the bolshevik monstrosity from taking hold would've been to deny it's primary funding and for at least one of the great powers to send troops to the monarchy's aid. Neither of which had any chance of happening considering the circumstances.

Prayerful

#11
November 30, 2022, 04:04:43 PM
Perhaps Nicholas II could have provided a unifying figurehead to the grievously divided White Armies, who ranged from monarchists, Chechens, republicans, Memsheviks, Ukrainians and other separatists, Czechs fighting their way home from imprisonment to any conceivable element who all rightly feared Red rule. Britain and others supported the White Armies, even deploying tanks and troops, but the living Tsar might have drawn them together. I would say 'could,' I understand the British government considered the moderate risk of revolution (then a very present concern in Western Europe) a concern, which could've been raised many notched in the UK. Nicholas II was mistakenly seen as a despot who enjoyed luxury while his country suffered.
Padre Pio: Pray, hope, and don't worry. Worry is useless. God is merciful and will hear your prayer.
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