American women have served and died from the first

[The Harlequin King]

There's a woman in my family tree who's listed as having served in the American Revolutionary War, but it doesn't say exactly how. Her name was Rahab Culpepper, of North Carolina (which is fitting if you think of the Biblical Rahab who assisted the Israelites at Jericho). http://gen.culpepper.com/ss/p9907.htm

[Ancilla Domini]

So what are the criteria for deciding what role women should and shouldn't play?

[zork]

Looks like we'll have some lyric shift'n to do.

And here I was thinking you were going to sing!
???

Hier singen meine Schüle für alle in SD:

[yt]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uGI8pCFh6zU[/yt]

Translation from the dialog at the end of the vid:

Adult: "Come down from there!"
Kid: "I'm coming already."

You're welcome.

[LouisIX]

Slippery slope?  Seriously?

Nursing, cooking, etc. are ways in which women can help the war effort without holding weapons and going into battle.  That's the line, and I think it's an obvious one.

[Ancilla Domini]

Slippery slope?  Seriously?

Yes, because they didn't go from nurses to special forces.

Nursing, cooking, etc. are ways in which women can help the war effort without holding weapons and going into battle.  That's the line, and I think it's an obvious one.

But there's a lot in the middle. Should women hold noncombatant but traditionally male roles such as mechanics, thereby "freeing a man to fight"? And what about spies and couriers, who are technically not in combat, but who risk their lives as if they were?

What exactly are the criteria for deciding what role women should and shouldn't play? 

[LouisIX]

They shouldn't risk their lives.  Spies may have to fight, be killed, be tortured, etc.  No man should be comfortable letting those things happen to a woman.

If a mechanic is out of the line of fire then I see no inherent problem.  If the mechanic needs to be in situations in which they may be shot at, however, the job should be done by a man.

[OCLittleFlower]

They shouldn't risk their lives.  Spies may have to fight, be killed, be tortured, etc.  No man should be comfortable letting those things happen to a woman.

If a mechanic is out of the line of fire then I see no inherent problem.  If the mechanic needs to be in situations in which they may be shot at, however, the job should be done by a man.

This.

And we are now fighting those who won't treat women with respect.  Even civilian nurses shouldn't be sent where they are too close to the battle.  We are no longer fighting gentlemen who will let these ladies be.

[Kaesekopf]

This.

And we are now fighting those who won't treat women with respect.  Even civilian nurses shouldn't be sent where they are too close to the battle.  We are no longer fighting gentlemen who will let these ladies be.

To an extent, everyone who has fought a war hasn't treated women with respect. 

Raping and pillaging is not a new concept... 

[MilesChristi]

This.

And we are now fighting those who won't treat women with respect.  Even civilian nurses shouldn't be sent where they are too close to the battle.  We are no longer fighting gentlemen who will let these ladies be.

To an extent, everyone who has fought a war hasn't treated women with respect. 

Raping and pillaging is not a new concept...

all the more reason to keep our women far away from this battlefield.

[Bonaventure]

Served and died does not mean picked up arms and word uniforms.

Abigail Adams certainly would not have picked up a musket and fought the red coats.

Even the "new" feminists of the 1960s and 1970s would object to fighting the Viet Cong.

Only in our supposedly enlightened age are we seeing this.

[OCLittleFlower]

This.

And we are now fighting those who won't treat women with respect.  Even civilian nurses shouldn't be sent where they are too close to the battle.  We are no longer fighting gentlemen who will let these ladies be.

To an extent, everyone who has fought a war hasn't treated women with respect. 

Raping and pillaging is not a new concept...

Very true.  However, there was usually an understanding to leave nurses alone. May not have always happened, but at least that was the understand.

Now we don't have even that.

[LouisIX]

This.

And we are now fighting those who won't treat women with respect.  Even civilian nurses shouldn't be sent where they are too close to the battle.  We are no longer fighting gentlemen who will let these ladies be.

To an extent, everyone who has fought a war hasn't treated women with respect. 

Raping and pillaging is not a new concept...

There are a lot of good men who have fought in wars and not raped women or pillaged villages.  Most Crusaders did not do that.  Most men serving in the American army never do that.

[Kaesekopf]

By everyone, I meant more the general "armies", as opposed to individual soldiers.

[OCLittleFlower]

By everyone, I meant more the general "armies", as opposed to individual soldiers.

And yet it is often a small group of individual soldiers who do it, rather than an order from a general.

[LouisIX]

By everyone, I meant more the general "armies", as opposed to individual soldiers.

And yet it is often a small group of individual soldiers who do it, rather than an order from a general.

Right.  In many ways, fighting for your State is a protection of women, especially if it's a just war.