Started by Lavenderson, September 08, 2022, 06:23:45 PM
Quote from: Markus on September 21, 2022, 08:57:26 PMIf Queen Elizabeth were not legitimate as some people rashly -- I would add stupidly -- say, how do you explain that she was received as a legitimate head of state by the last 7 Popes?As princess, she was received by Pius XII, as Queen she was received by all the succeeding Popes, including Francis. Here she is with Pope Wojtyla. To deny she was a legitimate queen is to lose contact with reality.
Quote from: Julio on September 21, 2022, 11:36:04 PMDid the act of St. Pope John Paul and other Popes in receiving her washed her of the sin of being the head of the schismatic Church of England that denies the authority of the successors of St. Peter? Does it mean that Regnans in Excelsis has been invalidated? Sans the expressed invalidation thereof, any overt act of civility does not erase its validity.
QuoteThe complicated case of the Bull Cum ex apostolatus officio of Pope Paul IV can more easily be understood. In it, we should distinguish the teachings and norms issued when the Pope legislates over those who are inferior to him from the norms issued when he intends to legislate over future Popes.In the first case, he establishes norms for religious and civil authorities. When he legislates over Catholic civil authorities ? Emperors, Kings, Dukes, Marquis, etc. ? he automatically excommunicates and deprives of their civil functions, without the need of any further measure, those who have had any adhesion to heresy. Certainly these determinations show that a laudable zeal inspired the Pontiff. But he seems to ignore the reality when he imagines that the simple words of his Bull will have the effect that he desires. Who could objectively prove that such persons have favored heresy unless they have gone through a judicial process? Is it possible for an excommunication latae sententiae ? normally reserved in the Church for secret actions ? to have a public effect and deprive an authority of its civil functions without any concurrence of the State? No, it is not possible. Thus, at least insofar as he legislates over Catholic civil authorities in so generic a manner, ignoring all indispensable procedures to make his norms effective, Pope Paul IV destines his Bull to remain a dead law, a blank bullet. I leave aside here the application of the Bull for ecclesiastical authorities.In the second case, another distinction is necessary: When Paul IV declares that no candidate to the Papacy or an elected Pope can be a heretic, he is doctrinally sound. But when he intends to depose a validly elected Pope should he become a heretic, and annul his juridical and sacramental actions, Paul IV is legislating over future Popes. This leads us to draw from the second conclusion above a consequence: Paul IV in Cum ex seems to step outside the ambit of papal authority and set himself up as a super-pope.
Quote from: Julio on September 22, 2022, 11:35:34 PMMarkus, on the issue of disuse, I maintain my position that non-usage of such does not translate invalidity. The fact remains that the Church of England is among the fountains of heresy.
Quote from: Goldfinch on September 23, 2022, 02:20:16 AMYes but that's irrelevant to his point.