Author Topic: Ukraine Has Lost, Must Negotiate With Russia - US General  (Read 505 times)

Offline clau clau

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Re: Ukraine Has Lost, Must Negotiate With Russia - US General
« Reply #15 on: June 13, 2022, 07:36:52 AM »
Ukraine Has LOST, And So Have We

If you're flying a Ukraine flag, assholes, you are the identified enemy right here at home, thank you very much for wearing an enemy uniform openly in public and you deserve to be forced to pay every damned dime of the economic cost to this nation for that act of STUPIDITY.   You ALL deserve the worst of what is to come AND IT IS COMING, like it or not.  I and many others will do our level best to make sure YOU and your entire family eat that cost -- every damn cent of it.  You are the most-stupid follower of the "next shiny object" and frankly, you are too fucking stupid to consume oxygen that could and should instead be used by something like a hog that actually produces a useful end product -- tasty bacon.

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Offline MaximGun

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Re: Ukraine Has Lost, Must Negotiate With Russia - US General
« Reply #16 on: June 13, 2022, 08:23:00 AM »
I have a sneaky suspicion that the neo-cons on seeing Russia win this will escalate in their madness and involve themselves directly in the war.  They'll do this partly out of political survival (short term) and partly out of mad anger at being defeated and humiliated by Russia.

Then nukes fly.  I think Putin will definitely use nuclear weapons if he is faced with NATO preparing to attack him.

Somehow things get so messed up that Russian forces are able to make it across Europe.  That implies a post-nuclear Europe or a famine, broken economy Europe there the governments are collapsing from societal breakdown.
 
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Offline Frank

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Offline james03

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Re: Ukraine Has Lost, Must Negotiate With Russia - US General
« Reply #18 on: June 13, 2022, 09:58:25 AM »
I have a sneaky suspicion that the neo-cons on seeing Russia win this will escalate in their madness and involve themselves directly in the war.  They'll do this partly out of political survival (short term) and partly out of mad anger at being defeated and humiliated by Russia.

Then nukes fly.  I think Putin will definitely use nuclear weapons if he is faced with NATO preparing to attack him.

Somehow things get so messed up that Russian forces are able to make it across Europe.  That implies a post-nuclear Europe or a famine, broken economy Europe there the governments are collapsing from societal breakdown.

1.  Israel attacked Damscus airport.  Ukraine is all about Syria.

2.  Turkey is about to invade Syria.  Turkey is an ally of Israel.

3.  Under-reported, there is a tanker stand off between Iran and the West.  Greece/US grabbed a tanker in the Med.  Iran currently has captured (2) Greek tankers in the Persian Gulf.

4.  Moldova/Transnistria seems to have cooled off, but it has potential to fuel escalation.

There are a lot of trip wires that the neocons are near.
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Offline james03

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Re: Ukraine Has Lost, Must Negotiate With Russia - US General
« Reply #19 on: June 13, 2022, 10:26:18 AM »
Why do we not believe U.S. Generals when they say that the Ukies are winning; but do believe them when they say that they are losing; and vice-versa?

For the same reason we believe a banker who exposes a banking fraud. Or a doctor who exposes pharmaceutical fraud.  They are acting against their interests

Or he could be taking money from Russia, or he could be too fixated on tactical level analysis, overlooking operational and political levels of war (common among former commanders).

The reality is that Russia has tactical advantage on Donbas part od the front, yet for weeks now are unable to make progress and the Ukrainian defense holds quite well. Eventually Ukrainians will probably withdraw to Kramatorsk - Slovyansk line to shorten the front, while for now they keep bleeding Russian troops out in Severodonetsk. Russia has too few troops to conduct offensive operations on multiple directions. Remember when they broke though near Popasna coupe of weeks ago? Now they are stalled because they did not have enough manpower to follow up the initial breakthrough (they had to pull out troops from the south which gave Ukrainians time to bring reinforcements and seal the gap in defences).

To be informed about the conflict you need to follow various militarny analysts who put together scant information that comes from the frontline and are able to interpret it, rather than following sensational media headlines which are intended to gain more clicks.

Political level.  To evaluate, check out the price of fuel and food in the US.  Check out the strength of the ruble and what Russia's trade surplus has done.  Looks like these are more than tactical wins.

In addition to the complete destruction of Western economies, you also have Russia tightly aligned with China.  That's a huge set back for the US.

As far as timing, it is a valid point, but too early to call.  You refer to "weeks".  In the past weeks allied forces captured Popasnaya and expanded out from there.  That was a huge win.  You also had the fall of Limon, and now Severdonetsk.  On the flip side, the salient from Izium has not progressed for about a month.

This is from a Western perspective of success.  However if the Russia perspective is destruction of the Ukraine army, with capture of territory secondary, Russia is doing rather well.  The prediction made two months ago that Russia was short of cruise missiles turned out to be false, and they are launching daily salvos of cruise missiles.  Over time all of the heavey weaponry of Ukraine is getting wiped out.  In the field, they use course corrected artillery to wipe out Ukraine forces and leave the infantry fighting to the Donbas militias and Chechens.

But I note the point.  With the pounding the Ukraine forces have been taking, I'd expect them to have collapsed by now.  This has not happened, but it's too early to tell if this is significant.  Also, you are correct, with the collapse of Popasnaya and the expansion of that salient, as the front lengthened, the insufficient number of troops on the allied side has become obvious.  If they were seriously staffed, a break out behind the Ukraine defenses should have been exploited all he way to Slavayanks and north to the northern front.

As far as bleeding Russians, I completely disagree.  The Russians have air superioriy and likely supremacy, and have a huge advantage in stand off weapons.  Ukraine is being bled.  In Severdonetsk Ukraine just blew the last bridge out  and trapped their forces there.  So they'll be starved out and picked off.

All in all the allies are winning, but it is a tough slog.  Ukraine had the second best military in Europe behind Russia, and they are fighting hard.  I think as time progresses the loss of their best forces will become more and more of a factor as they are replaced by reserves.
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Offline Heinrich

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Re: Ukraine Has Lost, Must Negotiate With Russia - US General
« Reply #20 on: June 13, 2022, 11:37:31 AM »
Schaff Recht mir Gott und führe meine Sache gegen ein unheiliges Volk . . .   .                          
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Offline Heinrich

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Re: Ukraine Has Lost, Must Negotiate With Russia - US General
« Reply #21 on: June 13, 2022, 11:51:32 AM »

That’s badass. I am going to paint a Z on my Ford V8 now.
Schaff Recht mir Gott und führe meine Sache gegen ein unheiliges Volk . . .   .                          
Lex Orandi, lex credendi, lex vivendi.
"Die Welt sucht nach Ehre, Ansehen, Reichtum, Vergnügen; die Heiligen aber suchen Demütigung, Verachtung, Armut, Abtötung und Buße." --Ausschnitt von der Geschichte des Lebens St. Bennos.