Author Topic: Atlantic: The War won't end until Putin loses.  (Read 1659 times)

Offline Xavier

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Atlantic: The War won't end until Putin loses.
« on: May 24, 2022, 12:34:12 PM »
From: https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2022/05/why-ukraine-must-defeat-putin-russia/629940/

Quote
"The expression off-ramp has a pleasing physicality, evoking a thing that can be constructed out of concrete and steel. But at the moment, anyone talking about an off-ramp in Ukraine—and many people are doing so, in governments, on radio stations, in a million private arguments—is using the term metaphorically, referring to a deal that could persuade Vladimir Putin to halt his invasion. Some believe that such an off-ramp could easily be built if only diplomats were willing to make the effort, or if only the White House weren’t so bellicose. It’s a nice idea. Unfortunately, the assumptions that underlie that belief are wrong.

The first assumption is that Russia’s president wants to end the war, that he needs an off-ramp, and that he is actually searching for a way to save face and to avoid, in French President Emmanuel Macron’s words, further “humiliation.” It is true that Putin’s army has performed badly, that Russian troops unexpectedly retreated from northern Ukraine, and that they have, at least temporarily, given up the idea of destroying the Ukrainian state. They suffered far greater casualties than anyone expected, lost impressive quantities of equipment, and demonstrated more logistical incompetence than most experts thought possible. But they have now regrouped in eastern and southern Ukraine, where their goals remain audacious: They seek to wear down Ukrainian troops, wear out Ukraine’s international partners, and exhaust the Ukrainian economy, which may already have contracted by as much as half.

Buoyed by oil and gas revenues, the Russian economy is experiencing a much less severe recession than Ukraine. Unconcerned by public opinion, the Russian army seems not to care how many of its soldiers die. For all of those reasons, Putin may well believe that a long-term war of attrition is his to win, not just in southern and eastern Ukraine but eventually in Kyiv and beyond. Certainly that’s what Kremlin propagandists are still telling the Russian people. On state television, the Russian army is triumphant, Russian soldiers are protecting civilians, and only Ukrainians commit atrocities. With a few minor exceptions, no one has prepared the Russian public to expect anything except total victory.

The second assumption made by those advocating off-ramps is that Russia, even if it were to begin negotiating, would stick to the agreements it signed. Even an ordinary cease-fire has to involve concessions on both sides, and anything more substantive would require a longer list of pledges and promises. But brazen dishonesty is now a normal part of Russian foreign policy as well as domestic propaganda. In the run-up to the war, senior Russian officials repeatedly denied that they intended to invade Ukraine, Russian state television mocked the Western warnings of invasion as “hysterical,” and Putin personally promised the French president that no war was coming. None of that was true. No future promises made by the Russian state, so long as it is controlled by Putin, can be believed either.

Nor does Russia seem to be interested in adhering to multiple treaties it is theoretically obligated to follow, among them the Geneva Convention and the United Nations’ Genocide Convention. Russian troops’ behavior in this war demonstrates that there is no international agreement that Putin can be counted on to respect. Regardless of what he might promise during peace negotiations, Western officials would have to assume that any Ukrainian populations handed over to Russia would be subject to arrests, terror, mass theft, and rape on an unprecedented scale; that Ukrainian cities would be incorporated into Russia against the will of the public; and that, as in 2014, when Russian proxies in the Donbas agreed to a truce, any cease-fire would be temporary, lasting only as long as it would take for the Russian army to regroup, rearm, and start again. Putin has made clear that destroying Ukraine is, for him, an essential, even existential, goal. Where is the evidence that he has abandoned it?

The third assumption is that this Ukrainian government, or any Ukrainian government, is politically able to swap territory for peace. To do so would be to reward Russia for invading, and to accept that Russia has the right to kidnap leaders, murder civilians, rape women, and deport anybody it chooses from Ukrainian territory. What Ukrainian president or prime minister can agree to that deal and expect to stay in office? Russian cruelty also means that any territory that is temporarily ceded will, sooner or later, become the source of an insurgency, because no Ukrainian population can promise to endure that kind of torture indefinitely. Already, guerrillas in the city of Melitopol, occupied since the first days of the war, claim to have killed several Russian officers and carried out acts of sabotage. An underground is emerging in occupied Kherson and will appear in other places too. To concede territory for a deal now will simply set up another conflict later on. The end of one kind of violence will lead to other kinds of violence.

This does not mean that the war can or should go on forever, or that diplomacy has no place at all. Nor does it mean that Americans and Europeans should be blind to the real challenges that a long conflict will pose to Ukraine. The Western coalition backing Kyiv could certainly fray; the wave of adrenaline that has so far propelled the Ukrainian army and leadership could crash. Ukraine’s economy could grow worse, making the fight much harder or even impossible to sustain.

But even so, off-ramp remains the wrong metaphor and the wrong goal. The West should not aim to offer Putin an off-ramp; our goal, our endgame, should be defeat. In fact, the only solution that offers some hope of long-term stability in Europe is rapid defeat, or even, to borrow Macron’s phrase, humiliation. In truth, the Russian president not only has to stop fighting the war; he has to conclude that the war was a terrible mistake, one that can never be repeated. More to the point, the people around him—leaders of the army, the security services, the business community—have to conclude exactly the same thing. The Russian public must eventually come to agree too.

Defeat could take several forms. It might be military: The White House should now increase not just the level but the speed of its assistance to Ukraine; it should provide the long-range weapons needed to take back occupied territory and perhaps also assistance with quicker distribution of those weapons. Defeat could be economic, taking the form of a temporary gas-and-oil embargo that finally cuts Russia off from the source of its income, lasting at least until the war ends. Defeat could involve the creation of a new security architecture, one based on new kinds of security guarantees for Ukraine, or even some type of NATO membership for Ukraine. Whatever form that takes, it has to be substantially different from the 1994 Budapest Memorandum, in which Ukraine was offered security “assurances” that meant nothing at all.


Defeat could also include broader sanctions, not just on a few select billionaires but on the entire Russian political class. The Anti-Corruption Foundation led by the jailed Russian dissident Alexei Navalny has drawn up a list of 6,000 “bribe-takers and warmongers”—that is, politicians and bureaucrats who have enabled the war and the regime. The European Parliament has already called for sanctions on that group. If others follow, maybe some in the ruling elite will finally be persuaded to start looking for new jobs, or at least start talking about how to make changes.

Charles A. Kupchan: Ukraine’s way out

Although saying so is considered undiplomatic, the American administration clearly knows that the defeat, sidelining, or removal of Putin is the only outcome that offers any long-term stability in Ukraine and the rest of Europe. “Putin,” said Joe Biden in March, “cannot remain in power.” In April, Lloyd Austin said that he hoped “to see Russia weakened to the degree it can’t do the kinds of things that it has done in invading Ukraine.” Both of these statements by the American president and his defense secretary were treated as gaffes or as policy mistakes—thoughtless remarks that might irritate the Russians. In truth, they were half-articulated acknowledgments of an ugly reality that no one wants to confront: Any cease-fire that allows Putin to experience any kind of victory will be inherently unstable, because it will encourage him to try again. Victory in Crimea did not satisfy the Kremlin. Victory in Kherson will not satisfy the Kremlin either ...

[read more in the link]
"He [His Grace Archbishop Lefebvre]exhorted them:

Quote from: +ABL
Make every effort to have the Mass of St. Pius V, but if it is impossible to find one within forty kilometers and if there is a pious priest who says the New Mass in as traditional a way as possible, it is good for you to assist at it to fulfill your Sunday obligation."

One can counter the dangers for the Faith through solid catechism:

Quote
Should all the world’s churches be emptied? I do not feel brave enough to say such a thing. I don’t want to encourage atheism."

Taken from: https://sspx.org/en/what-archbishop-lefebvre-said-about-new-mass
 
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Offline james03

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Re: Atlantic: The War won't end until Putin loses.
« Reply #1 on: May 24, 2022, 02:25:19 PM »
Xavier,

Did you know that The Atlantic is the bible to Neo Con ZOG?

The reason this article is out there is because Europe is now talking about an off ramp to this fiasco.  Italy just published a 4 point peace plan (an off ramp), and even the NYT is out admitting Ukraine will lose.  France also is making noises about negotiating a settlement.  The neo-cons are in total panic mode.

Because WHEN this ends in a negotiated surrender, the West will have far worse terms than if they had just gone with Minsk 2 at the cost of a complete implosion of their economies.  Biden will have a far worse loss than Afghanistan, the German Greens will get obliterated at the next election, and Boris Johnson will look like even more of a complete idiot.  And in Italy, the hated Salvini will come roaring back, and in Hungary Orban will be hailed as a genius in geopolitics.

In the US, the damage may be so great that they won't be able to harvest enough ballots to avoid the greatest blow out in US elections.

This is what happens WHEN the off ramp is implemented.  You can appreciate their reason for panicking. 
"But he that doth not believe, is already judged: because he believeth not in the name of the only begotten Son of God (Jn 3:18)."

"All sorrow leads to the foot of the Cross.  Weep for your sins."

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Offline clau clau

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Re: Atlantic: The War won't end until Putin loses.
« Reply #2 on: May 24, 2022, 02:29:58 PM »
Xavier,

Did you know that The Atlantic is the bible to Neo Con ZOG?

No, of course he did not know. He regularly posts stuff from things like The Washington Post, CNN etc..
... and it will not change ...

Endless waves of rhetoric and mainstream bullshit ...

I feel like King Canute today.
« Last Edit: May 24, 2022, 02:32:16 PM by clau clau »
Father time has an undefeated record.

But when he's dumb and no more here,
Nineteen hundred years or near,
Clau-Clau-Claudius shall speak clear.
(https://completeandunabridged.blogspot.com/2009/06/i-claudius.html)
 
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Offline james03

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Re: Atlantic: The War won't end until Putin loses.
« Reply #3 on: May 24, 2022, 02:58:59 PM »
Speaking of neo cons, here's the patch from their police force.  The "police" that detained Jack Posobiec were wearing these patches, as can be seen in the photos he posted.  Here's a close up.
 Strange ram creatures and strange monoliths.  Nothing to see here.

"But he that doth not believe, is already judged: because he believeth not in the name of the only begotten Son of God (Jn 3:18)."

"All sorrow leads to the foot of the Cross.  Weep for your sins."

"Although He should kill me, I will trust in Him"
 
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Offline MaximGun

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Re: Atlantic: The War won't end until Putin loses.
« Reply #4 on: May 24, 2022, 03:16:45 PM »
Amazing that people on this forum side with the new world order.

 
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Offline dellery

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Re: Atlantic: The War won't end until Putin loses.
« Reply #5 on: May 24, 2022, 05:09:29 PM »
Amazing that people on this forum side with the new world order.


It's funny that you think people who don't have an emotional attachment to Russia destroying the West, and who don't shape their worldview from watching YouTube videos (how old are you anyway?) are "siding" with the New World Order, as you refer to it.

I wonder what else you let shape your views on reality.

Blessed are those who plant trees under whose shade they will never sit.

The closer you get to life the better death will be; the closer you get to death the better life will be.

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Offline Tennessean

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Re: Atlantic: The War won't end until Putin loses.
« Reply #6 on: May 24, 2022, 05:21:07 PM »
Speaking of neo cons, here's the patch from their police force.  The "police" that detained Jack Posobiec were wearing these patches, as can be seen in the photos he posted.  Here's a close up.
 Strange ram creatures and strange monoliths.  Nothing to see here.


Did they buy these on amazon?
 

Offline Xavier

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Re: Atlantic: The War won't end until Putin loses.
« Reply #7 on: May 25, 2022, 02:13:22 AM »
Hi James.

James, I oppose unjust wars of aggression, like Iraq etc. But I feel Russia is the unjust aggressor here. We'll probably have to agree to disagree. I think Putin has been in power long enough. You have any thoughts on how Alexei Navalny would be for Russia? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexei_Navalny He was poisoned recently: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poisoning_of_Alexei_Navalny

Putin has made it clear he wants to rebuild the Communist Soviet Union, seeing it as a Great Thing, and its (good) collapse as a "geopolitical disaster". That's bad imo. The Russians should venerate St. Vladimir the Great (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vladimir_the_Great), and their earlier Saints. Unfortunately, in some places in Russia, Stalin is venerated, though he killed millions of innocent people, and was a brutal dictator; there is clear nostalgia for the Soviet past, which supposedly made Russia great and strong. The EU and the West have their problems, yet I believe they are correct in not turning a blind eye to Russia's invasion in Ukraine. If Russia ceases the aggression, negotiations can begin. But it doesn't look, per their leaders, like they're going to be doing so any time soon.

God Bless.
"He [His Grace Archbishop Lefebvre]exhorted them:

Quote from: +ABL
Make every effort to have the Mass of St. Pius V, but if it is impossible to find one within forty kilometers and if there is a pious priest who says the New Mass in as traditional a way as possible, it is good for you to assist at it to fulfill your Sunday obligation."

One can counter the dangers for the Faith through solid catechism:

Quote
Should all the world’s churches be emptied? I do not feel brave enough to say such a thing. I don’t want to encourage atheism."

Taken from: https://sspx.org/en/what-archbishop-lefebvre-said-about-new-mass
 
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Offline MaximGun

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Re: Atlantic: The War won't end until Putin loses.
« Reply #8 on: May 25, 2022, 05:25:22 AM »

British media are totally changing their "Ukraine RA RA RA" tune.  Russians must be winning if even the lying British media are admitting it.

You were stupid to ever think anything else.  There was no way that Russia was ever going to let themselves lose this war.  It would be the end of them and they all know that.  They negotiated a peace deal for 8 years for that reason.  They knew there was a lot riding on it and they knew that wars are unpredictable things.

Ukrainians played silly buggers and let themselves get used by the USA and the neocon Freemasonic God haters.  Now they will lose and forever be remember by the Russians as traitors to their Slavic brothers.  Russians have long memories.  The Nazi label will last a long time.

The Instrument of the Chastisement is having a tune-up.
 

Offline MaximGun

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Re: Atlantic: The War won't end until Putin loses.
« Reply #9 on: May 25, 2022, 05:43:11 AM »
These are the Freemasonic EU scum you are defending Xavier, Mikemac and others.

"Defending European values".  Which are diametrically opposed to Christian values.

 

Offline Xavier

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Re: Atlantic: The War won't end until Putin loses.
« Reply #10 on: May 25, 2022, 07:14:42 AM »
Haha. We will see, Maxim. We will see. I think you WANT there to be a Chastisement. I'm praying against it. If it were Chinese Communists and Radical Islamists doing the chastising, even you would probably feel differently about them, methinks.

By Christ-Mas 2022, it should be very clear who is winning. All your video says is that Russia is preparing for a long war.

Here's an Al Jazeera report. Also, Russia may not want to lose the War, but it may have no choice. They should not have started it: https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/5/19/russia-suffers-a-series-of-military-economic-diplomatic-defeats

Personally, I am still favorable to extending the "off-ramp" option to Russia, but imo Putin should go. He has messed up badly. Also, the War is not about other things, nor social issues. Russian troops kill Priests, Catholic and Orthodox, along with others.

This is a secular war fought for secular reasons, like land grabs, power expansion etc. It has nothing to do with religious values.

Quote
"Russia suffers series of military, economic, diplomatic defeats

Russia is losing manpower at an unsustainable rate; it was forced to accept Finland and Sweden’s decisions to join NATO; and it is cutting its own gas sales to Europe, which help it finance the war with Ukraine.

Russian troops drive armoured vehicles near Novoazovsk in the Donetsk region on Friday

Military, economic and diplomatic own goals marked the 12th week of Russia’s war in Ukraine.

Russia’s retreat from Kharkiv, Ukraine’s second-largest city, has now pushed Moscow’s forces back to their border 40km away and taken their artillery beyond the city’s range.

Russia seems to be contracting plans for a grand pincer movement around Ukrainian forces in the country’s east, partly because of a lack of manpower.

A particularly humiliating defeat occurred on May 11 when Ukrainian forces inflicted heavy losses on the Russian 74th Motorised Rifle Brigade as it attempted to cross the Siverskyi Donets river in an effort to encircle Ukrainian defenders in Rubizhne.

Satellite images show a destroyed pontoon bridge with clusters of destroyed Russian vehicles on both banks of the river, where Russian forces were caught in transit. Of the 550 Russian troops sent into action, 485 were reportedly wounded or killed, and 80 pieces of equipment were destroyed.

Russian forces also failed to branch out from a bridgehead in Izyum and perform an encirclement.

Ukraine says Russia has lost almost 28,000 troops – 20 percent of the force that launched Moscow’s so-called “special military operation” and as much as 60 percent of the equipment involved in the invasion.

The Ukrainian general staff say some Russian units in the Donbas are at 20 percent of their strength and are being forced to team up with private military companies.

The head of Ukraine’s main intelligence directorate, Kyrylo Budanov, says Russia has begun a covert mobilisation, which includes reservists. The Ukrainian general staff says 2,500 Russian reservists are training near the border between both countries.

After the twin failures at Izyum and Rubizhne, it is likely that Russian forces are abandoning a broader encirclement plan in order to focus on Luhansk oblast, says Serhiy Haidai, head of the Luhansk Oblast administration.

The Washington-based Institute for the Study of War agreed: “Russian forces may be abandoning efforts at a wide encirclement of Ukrainian troops along the Izyum-Slovyansk-Debaltseve line in favor of shallower encirclements of Severodonetsk and Lysychansk.”

“It is unclear if Russian forces can encircle, let alone capture, Severodonetsk and Lysychansk even if they focus their efforts on that much-reduced objective. Russian offensives have bogged down every time they hit a built-up area throughout this war,” the institute said.

Russia has also removed a number of top commanders from their posts for poor performance.

“Russia’s strategic defeat is already obvious to everyone in the world,” Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy declared.

“It’s just that Russia doesn’t have the courage to admit it yet … Therefore, our task is to fight until we achieve our goals in this war. Free our land, our people and establish our security,” he said.

There also seems to be a looming shortage of military hardware.

US Commerce Secretary Gina Raimondo told Congress that Russia is using chips from refrigerators and dishwashers in its tanks because of a shortage of semiconductors. That information came from Ukrainian sources.

Although the two sides are negotiating to exchange prisoners, there can be no substantive peace talks, says Thanos Veremis, professor emeritus of history at Athens University.

“There was a point when they might have come to an agreement, but now the Russians have committed so many atrocities it’s very difficult. This is when the real Ukraine is being born – it’s building its national narrative and hammering its identity,” he told Al Jazeera.

The gas war

Russia seems to be undermining its own revenues in tit-for-tat sanctions against Europe.

The trigger came on May 11, when Ukraine limited Russian gas transiting its territory to Europe for the first time.

Ukraine said it partly closed the pipeline entering its territory at Sokhranovka after Russian-backed separatists siphoned off gas. Gas volumes fell from 96 million cubic metres to 72mcm overnight. A second Russian pipeline crossing Ukraine was not impeded.

Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov said Russia is committed to honouring gas contracts to Europe, but the next day Russian gas monopoly Gazprom retaliated by forbidding European pipelines in which it is a shareholder to transport its gas.

“A ban on transactions and payments to entities under sanctions has been implemented,” Gazprom said in a statement.

The sanctioned entities lie in countries that have themselves initiated measures against Russia. Russia’s Interfax news agency said these comprised Polish pipeline owner EuRoPol Gaz, Gazprom Germania, and 29 Gazprom Germania subsidiaries across Europe.

With Russian gas deliveries expected to fall further, European gas prices jumped 22 percent.

Russia’s sanctions rest on a May 3 decree outlining “retaliatory special economic measures in connection with the unfriendly actions of some foreign states.”

Putin gave the government 10 days to draft the sanctions list, which was published on May 13.

The retaliatory sanctions are likely to undermine a major source of revenue for Russia, but could also damage Europe, still highly dependent on Russian gas.

The diplomatic war
NATO enlargement, a reason put forward by Putin for his war against Kyiv, has now advanced owing to his invasion of Ukraine.

On May 12, Finland’s President Sauli Niinisto and Prime Minister Sanna Marin said in a joint statement that “Finland must apply for NATO membership without delay”.

Sweden followed Finland’s lead three days later.

“Sweden needs formal security guarantees that come with membership in NATO,” Prime Minister Magdalena Andersson told legislators in the capital Stockholm.

Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov lashed out at the United States, saying it was dragging Europe into an expensive confrontation with Russia.

“The ‘rules-based order’ envisions neither democracy, nor pluralism even within the ‘collective West’,” Lavrov said at the annual meeting of Moscow’s Council on Foreign and Defence Policy on May 13.

“The case in point is the revival of tough bloc discipline and an unconditional submission of the ‘allies’ to Washington’s diktat,” Lavrov said.


“The EU will finally lose all attributes of independence and obediently join the Anglo-Saxon plans to assert the unipolar world order … in order to please the United States,” he said.

Putin was forced into a diplomatic retreat on the issue of Finland and Sweden joining NATO.

“As to enlargement, Russia has no problem with these states – none,” he said on May 16.

“And so in this sense there is no immediate threat to Russia from an expansion [of NATO] to include these countries,” Putin told the leaders of the Collective Security Treaty Organisation, a military alliance of former Soviet states.

“But the expansion of military infrastructure into this territory would certainly provoke our response,” he said.

Putin’s position marked a diplomatic retreat from that expressed by former Russian president and ally Dmitry Medvedev, who said in April that Russia would deploy nuclear weapons in Kaliningrad, across the Baltic Sea from Finland and Sweden, should they consider membership in the military alliance.

“A threat has value while you don’t have to make good on it,” said Constantinos Filis, who directs the Institute of Global Affairs at the American College of Greece.

“Russia threatened Sweden and Finland with consequences if they entered NATO. Once they did so, it was humiliating to insist,” Filis said.

“Putin was forced to soften his stance, to say … they will suffer consequences if they turn against Russia. Of course, Putin knows that both countries have previously said they don’t want to host NATO bases, missile systems and so on,” Filis told Al Jazeera."
"He [His Grace Archbishop Lefebvre]exhorted them:

Quote from: +ABL
Make every effort to have the Mass of St. Pius V, but if it is impossible to find one within forty kilometers and if there is a pious priest who says the New Mass in as traditional a way as possible, it is good for you to assist at it to fulfill your Sunday obligation."

One can counter the dangers for the Faith through solid catechism:

Quote
Should all the world’s churches be emptied? I do not feel brave enough to say such a thing. I don’t want to encourage atheism."

Taken from: https://sspx.org/en/what-archbishop-lefebvre-said-about-new-mass
 
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Offline Xavier

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Re: Atlantic: The War won't end until Putin loses.
« Reply #11 on: May 25, 2022, 07:16:15 AM »
See also: https://www.businessinsider.in/international/news/putin-is-losing-his-grip-on-power-and-top-russian-security-officials-think-the-ukraine-war-is-lost-expert-says/articleshow/91712035.cms

Quote
"Top Russian security officials think the war in Ukraine is "lost," suggesting that Vladimir Putin's regime might be coming to an end, according to an expert on Russia-related security threats.

The "informed elite" within the security forces "understand that the war is lost," said Bellingcat's lead Russia investigator Christo Grozev in an interview with Radio Liberty, per Metro.

To have a chance of winning the war, Grozev said, the Russian president would need full mobilization but this would cause problems for him at home. Mass mobilization would lead to a "social explosion" in Russia, Grozev added, according to Metro.

There are those in Putin's inner circle who may pressure him to use nuclear or chemical weapons, Grozev continued, but others will say "enough is enough." These people would say "it is better not to waste another 10,000 lives of our soldiers and officers," Grozev said, per Metro.

Although the exact numbers are unavailable, it is estimated that thousands of Russian servicemen have died in the country's brutal offensive on Ukraine. According to the UK defense ministry, Russia has lost a third of its forces."
"He [His Grace Archbishop Lefebvre]exhorted them:

Quote from: +ABL
Make every effort to have the Mass of St. Pius V, but if it is impossible to find one within forty kilometers and if there is a pious priest who says the New Mass in as traditional a way as possible, it is good for you to assist at it to fulfill your Sunday obligation."

One can counter the dangers for the Faith through solid catechism:

Quote
Should all the world’s churches be emptied? I do not feel brave enough to say such a thing. I don’t want to encourage atheism."

Taken from: https://sspx.org/en/what-archbishop-lefebvre-said-about-new-mass
 

Offline dellery

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Re: Atlantic: The War won't end until Putin loses.
« Reply #12 on: May 25, 2022, 08:34:52 AM »
If it were Chinese Communists and Radical Islamists doing the chastising, even you would probably feel differently about them, methinks.

He's a subject of the UK, that's exactly who'll be doing his Chastising. Greg still hasn't understood that the Chastisement will be in large part the exploitation of internal contradictions the West has brought on itself through abortion and contraception. In other words, the East will financially wreck the Western economies, with the help of our leaders, and then enable radical elements from within to conquer us. We Westerners opened up door wide open to this when we started killing our pre-born babies, contracepting ourselves into negative growth, and raping the world of its human talent to fill our population gaps.
There is no Russian Christendom coming.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2022, 08:36:37 AM by dellery »
Blessed are those who plant trees under whose shade they will never sit.

The closer you get to life the better death will be; the closer you get to death the better life will be.

Nous Defions
St. Phillip Neri, pray for us.
 
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Offline King Wenceslas

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Re: Atlantic: The War won't end until Putin loses.
« Reply #13 on: May 25, 2022, 12:07:42 PM »
Every time there will be a Russian occupation of any part of Ukraine where the Ukrainian Catholic Church exists, the Ukrainian Catholic Church will be strangled and eventually rendered illegal and possibly extinguished.

Many people on this forum are on the side of the Russians and by doing so are giving support for the destruction of the Ukranian Catholic Church.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2022, 12:10:44 PM by King Wenceslas »
 
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Offline Greg

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Re: Atlantic: The War won't end until Putin loses.
« Reply #14 on: May 25, 2022, 12:22:26 PM »
The Ukrainian Catholic Church which has a lower birth rate in its followers than the Russian Othodox?

Who cares?  They're fruitless.  Contracepted to the eyeballs and aborting their children when the contraception fails them.

Besides, I doubt it is true.  Catholic Churches operate inside Russia.  The Russians won't bother to shut them down in Ukraine.
 
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