Author Topic: Perceptions of American Religiosity from Non-Americans  (Read 961 times)

Offline Julio

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Re: Perceptions of American Religiosity from Non-Americans
« Reply #30 on: May 20, 2022, 07:17:35 PM »
What makes America special is that there serious religion is normal...

Each country has it’s own special gifts from God and America has them as well or better than any other country.

I think you are using overly positive language to talk about the existence of false religions.  While they may be better than atheism, ideally they would not exist.  This is not clear when you talk of it being a "special gift" of Americans.

A few years ago, most of us objected to Pope Francis signing a statement that said, "The pluralism and the diversity of religions, color, sex, race and language are willed by God in his wisdom, through which he created human beings."  (A later statement from the Vatican backtracked/ clarified that he meant "permissive will not positive will.)

Pluralism and diversity of religions is not a good thing.  It means that many people believe things that are not true and do not worship God as he ought to be worshipped.  The ideal is that all people believe the truth and are Catholic.  It is not a "special gift" when this does not happen.  It is falling short of the ideal.  God may be able to bring some good from it (like the things you have mentioned), but it is not good.
Amen! I am in full agreement with you that diversity of religion is never a blessing for there is only one true Faith and that is the one provided by the Catholic Church because it is Jesus who made it. One who believes in Jesus yet do not recognize the truth that we have to do the celebration of the Holy Eucharist in memory of Him because He mandated that by which His body and His blood will be the same substance that we shall consume for us to be in Communion with our Lord Jesus is not believing in the true religion. He is the same One Person of the Holy Trinity and that is an absolute truth. The rest are false and has nothing to offer about the absolute truth of God.

I share with you and the rest of the members of this forum who are frustrated and saddened of the affixing of the signature of our own pontiff. It is reducing our Faith to be just among the others. It is not making evangelization but some sort of partnership with the godless and enemies of our faith. We must remember the history of our Catholic Church that we wanted to be annihilated by the heathens and that remains to be true today. It is foolish to say that modernity has changed that fact that these heathens are actually friends of Catholics. They are not and will never be.

God bless :) 
 
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Offline BlueInGreen

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Re: Perceptions of American Religiosity from Non-Americans
« Reply #31 on: May 20, 2022, 10:34:17 PM »

I'm talking about religiosity in terms of actual religion and the belief in a divine, not politics.

They are joined at the hip in America.  Your pro-abortion pro-sodomy President and half his cabinet are Catholics in good standing with their bishops and cardinals.  They just believe that God is pro-abortion and pro-sodomy too.  But I am sure Biden believes in God, as well as Nancy Pelosi.  They simple believe God is a liberal and leftist like them who wants everyone let into America so that the party of diversity and tolerance can remain in power.

The Catholic hierarchy are either lazy at their duties or cowards of the Faith. Or both. I sense many are afraid to speak up because they do not want to receive backlash.

Do you really think Biden and Pelosi think Jesus was pro-abortion and pro-sodomy? I don't think so. I think they know the stances of the Church on sodomy and abortion - they just don't care. Pelosi is pure cultural Catholic. She's as Catholic as Aubrey Plaza and Greta Gerwig. Biden is a little different but not anymore impressive. In fact he's probably even worse. Biden himself said that though he personally rejects abortion he doesn't believe he should impose his own faith unto others. He even went on record saying that he doesn't even know when life begins so we're dealing with a man who doesn't know the moon from the sun.
« Last Edit: May 20, 2022, 10:36:26 PM by BlueInGreen »
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Offline BlueInGreen

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Re: Perceptions of American Religiosity from Non-Americans
« Reply #32 on: May 20, 2022, 10:46:15 PM »
I think it's good that a materially prosperous country like America retains high levels of religiosity on the whole. That's a Good Sign. In Europe, with the exception of rare countries like Catholic Poland, the general trend is in the opposite direction: the more material wealth a country has, the less religious in general its citizens tend to be.

bold: yes, they replace the divine God with a material god.

American Protestantism has a tendency to mix the two.  This is how they end up with the "prosperity Gospel" heresy.  There is lip service to the divine God, but He is a means to material wealth.

Religiosity, in itself, is not a good thing.  It can be bad if the religion is bad or false.  Protestantism may be better than secularism, but it is not on the same level as Catholicism, not even close.

I'd argue religiosity is a good thing to a certain extent. At least with Protestants and non-Catholic believers we're somewhat on the same page. Atheists today? We might as well be reading two very different books in different languages.

This of course brings up the question: Is it better to live in a country with non-Catholics who believe in a divine or atheists? Of course, in the US we have both kinds. Is it better to have a situation like the UK, a mostly secular society where being religious is seen as quirk? I can see the UK turning into the Nordic countries in its attitude towards religion in the next twenty years - Catholic clerics are literally laughed at when they stand up against sodomy and abortion in the Nordic countries. 

I don't have the numbers on me, so I'm just speculating - I sense there are more Protestants/non-Catholics becoming atheists than Protestants/non-Catholics turning Catholic, but there are more Protestants becomings Catholics than atheists are.
« Last Edit: May 20, 2022, 10:48:37 PM by BlueInGreen »
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Offline Maximilian

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Re: Perceptions of American Religiosity from Non-Americans
« Reply #33 on: May 20, 2022, 11:01:28 PM »
Religiosity, in itself, is not a good thing.  It can be bad if the religion is bad or false. 

There is a virtue of religion. It is a good thing. There is also the object of that virtue, which is the content of one's faith. That content can be true if it is the Catholic Faith, or else false to varying degrees depending on the false sect to which one belongs. But the errors in the content of one's faith do not entirely discredit the virtue itself.

For example, the American Indians had a religion which is about as pagan as it gets. Objectively the content of their faith was false. But at the same time they possessed a very strong virtue of religion. So Fr. Pierre de Smet said that once they were converted to the true faith, then at time when the correct content was linked to their strong virtue, they were able to become incredible practitioners of Catholicism who would never even dream of committing a mortal sin again for the rest of their lives.
 
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Offline MaximGun

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Re: Perceptions of American Religiosity from Non-Americans
« Reply #34 on: May 21, 2022, 12:14:05 AM »
Yes, I think Biden and Pelosi think exactly that. Moreover, so do the bishops and Catholic priests who surround them.

Biden and Pelosi know the Catholic Church used to be anti abortion and anti sodomy but they think it will eventually come around to their way of thinking.  Pope Francis is yet more evidence of this as far as they are concerned.

The Church also used to be anti-usury.

Who am I to judge?  Is exactly the same philosophical basis that Biden uses to justify abortion.  'Come on man, it's complicated'.
 

Offline Julio

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Re: Perceptions of American Religiosity from Non-Americans
« Reply #35 on: May 21, 2022, 02:11:13 AM »
Yes, I think Biden and Pelosi think exactly that. Moreover, so do the bishops and Catholic priests who surround them.

Biden and Pelosi know the Catholic Church used to be anti abortion and anti sodomy but they think it will eventually come around to their way of thinking.  Pope Francis is yet more evidence of this as far as they are concerned.

The Church also used to be anti-usury.

Who am I to judge?  Is exactly the same philosophical basis that Biden uses to justify abortion.  'Come on man, it's complicated'.
Right on point, that vague phrase is the same justification that I was into when I did not seriously give attention to my kind of Catholicism. I thought same sex marriages can be justified on the basis of "rules on equality" but yes, "it is a violation of the will of God."
 

Offline Jayne

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Re: Perceptions of American Religiosity from Non-Americans
« Reply #36 on: May 21, 2022, 11:55:34 AM »
Just today, I was reading an examination of conscience that asked: "Have you betrayed the Catholic Faith by saying that all religions are good?"

Obviously, this is talking about indifferentism rather a recognition of a virtue of religion that exists independently of the content of the religion.  But it shows how easily the ideas could be confused.   If we wish to talk about the virtue of religion we need to exercise great caution because it could be so easily misunderstood as promoting indifferentism, perhaps even cause others to sin.  And, because this sin is so common in our time, that it probably increases the chances of our comments being taken in support of it.

Several posts in this thread, including the OP, might be taken that way.  I, being familiar with the posters, knew to give them the benefit of the doubt.  But what if someone who is unfamiliar with these posters read the posts and was confused by them?   

Given how widespread indifferentism is, even among people professing Catholicism, the evil of indifferentism is probably the more important truth for us to talk about. I doubt that anywhere near as many people need to hear about the virtue of religion.
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Offline queen.saints

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Re: Perceptions of American Religiosity from Non-Americans
« Reply #37 on: May 21, 2022, 01:41:03 PM »
When the virtue of religion is so deplorably lacking in most countries that even the traditional Catholics there are shocked by the far from ideal level of it in America, then most of the world desperately needs to learn about it.

This is an adult discussion forum and when already clear posts are followed by distinctions and clarifications, one has the right and, one could argue, the duty to, in charity, assume that the reader has both the reading comprehension skills and personal responsibility necessary to properly understand what is being said.
I am sorry for the times I have publicly criticized others on this forum, especially traditional Catholic religious, and any other scandalous posts and pray that no one reads or believes these false and ignorant statements.
 
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Offline josh987654321

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Re: Perceptions of American Religiosity from Non-Americans
« Reply #38 on: May 22, 2022, 10:54:32 AM »
Delivery drivers DO get tips, but they usually get much less.

I've never had to 'tip' a delivery driver. What does a delivery driver do at your front door to receive a tip from you? And how do you deicide how much to 'tip' them?

You have no idea what you're actually talking about. You're like an American communist SJW trying to tell a refugee from an actual communist country how wonderful communism is.

Good way to shut down debate, lol as if disliking tipping makes you a commie.

The overwhelming majority of waitresses don't make tips exploiting their bodies. This is so incredibly narrow-minded and idiotic. Every restaurant I've ever worked at, waitresses of all shapes and sizes walked out with multiples of $100 every single night. Mind you I haven't worked in food service since the COVID Kristallnocht.

Okay, so how much is one supposed to tip the waiter/waitress? What does a waiter/waitress need to do to get a higher tip? If the meal is sub-par is that the waiter/waitresses fault or the chefs?

Many businesses have tried paying waitresses hourly wages and the results are always the same: the good waitresses quit and go work somewhere else, and crappy waitresses start working and the service suffers.

How does Australian customer service survive then? If they are poor workers they lose their jobs and if the chef and establishment is good it will draw more profits, higher wages and better staff.

God Bless

P.S. try not to hate on me, besides, the OP asked the question and I'm not trying to trash the USA, there is a lot I admire about the USA, especially historically. Also if this makes one a 'commie SJW' then good luck debating anything else lol.
« Last Edit: May 22, 2022, 10:57:24 AM by josh987654321 »
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Offline Goldfinch

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Re: Perceptions of American Religiosity from Non-Americans
« Reply #39 on: May 22, 2022, 12:00:46 PM »
USA's religiosity

I'm a big believer in what Ronald Raegan said, the moment the USA (I would say the western world) forgets that they are one nation under God, they will be one nation gone under... and we are almost at that point IMO.

And when I say God, I don't mean multiculturalism or anything, I mean Our Lord Jesus Christ, when the western world was founded on God, it wasn't Islam or Judaism or Buddhism or whatever, it was Christianity. Multi-racial yes but multi-cultural no, different races and cultures are all good and enriching things ONLY if there is a fundamental truth that unites them in the one Country, which is or used to be at least Christianity for the western world.

When Christianity falls in the western world, so too will the western world fall as we are currently witnessing IMO.

There is no Christianity outside the Church. Protestantism isn't "Christianity."

The western world has been slowly crumbling ever since the Reformation. The Enlightenment and the wars in the 20th century just sped up the process, along with the eclipse of the Church with Vatican II.

Quote
And of course, Christianity only works when entirely voluntary. So can't make or coerce people to become Christian, but with that understanding one can't flood a Country with those of another faith and not expect problems, neither can one expel those of another faith from the Country, because then that's fake conversion. Need an environment that facilitates the growth of Christianity, all Constantine the Great had to do was legalize the faith throughout the empire and not persecute it at all.

You are correct that faith is a voluntary assent to the divinely revealed truths. However, it's profoundly ingenuous to think that Christianity did not profit from the coercive power of the state to strengthen its grip on society. And rightly so: people as a whole need to be led by strong example and the fear of punishment.
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Offline Julio

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Re: Perceptions of American Religiosity from Non-Americans
« Reply #40 on: May 23, 2022, 04:19:41 PM »
There is no Christianity outside the Church. Protestantism isn't "Christianity."

The western world has been slowly crumbling ever since the Reformation. The Enlightenment and the wars in the 20th century just sped up the process, along with the eclipse of the Church with Vatican II.
Indeed, and the schism by the Eastern Christians resulted unto Constantinople becoming Istanbul. The destruction of the Protestant nations is just starting in our time. The Catholic nations like Spain (Spanish Hapsburg) waned to expand its evangelization from the moment the Peace of Westphalia was signed after the 30 years war. If there was no Protestantism, perhaps the Ottoman Empire was subdued, but the sins of the Catholic leaders also before the Western schism happened had its price to pay too. St. Thomas Aquinas was even seeking for the intercession of the Holy Mother of God so that he shall not be appointed as a Bishop due to the abuse of powers by the many from among them.
 

Offline Tennessean

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Re: Perceptions of American Religiosity from Non-Americans
« Reply #41 on: May 23, 2022, 06:25:12 PM »
Americans in general don't give two hoots about foreigner's opinions of America.

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Offline BlueInGreen

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Re: Perceptions of American Religiosity from Non-Americans
« Reply #42 on: May 23, 2022, 08:21:27 PM »
^ And Irish and Brits are generally drunks. Let's try to stay away from the stereotypes.
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Offline MaximGun

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Re: Perceptions of American Religiosity from Non-Americans
« Reply #43 on: May 24, 2022, 01:12:16 AM »
Americans in general don't give two hoots about foreigner's opinions of America.

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Americans in general can't find another country on a map. This makes foreigners seethe.

No, it simply makes Americans, in general, ignorant.

 

Offline Spooky

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Re: Perceptions of American Religiosity from Non-Americans
« Reply #44 on: May 24, 2022, 01:19:11 AM »
Americans in general don't give two hoots about foreigner's opinions of America.

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Americans in general can't find another country on a map. This makes foreigners seethe.

No, it simply makes Americans, in general, ignorant.


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