Author Topic: Perceptions of American Religiosity from Non-Americans  (Read 959 times)

Offline MaximGun

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Offline GMC

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Re: Perceptions of American Religiosity from Non-Americans
« Reply #16 on: May 20, 2022, 01:07:59 PM »
My perception of the USA is that it's in a process of national disintegration due to racial conflicts egged on by LWWs.

A foreseeable scenario is a civil war and the Country divided into 3 or 4 nations.

The predominant religiosity in America is Protestant, and Protestantism is divisive by its very nature, So I don't think Protestant religiosity can fix that.
« Last Edit: May 20, 2022, 01:10:24 PM by GMC »
 
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Offline BlueInGreen

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Re: Perceptions of American Religiosity from Non-Americans
« Reply #17 on: May 20, 2022, 01:23:01 PM »

Downside of American religiousity.  You are over-confident about how the rest of the world works.  People who hardly travel think they understand the relationships and feuds of 1000 year old Afghan tribesmen and Somalian warlords.

You will start the war that destroys you.  Of that, I am confident.

I'm talking about religiosity in terms of actual religion and the belief in a divine, not politics. Plus, not even the secular elite, if they aren't in academia where their research interests lends itself to such expertise, understand the relationships of Afghan tribesman and Somalian warlords.

And to remind people who are making this about US politics - it's not. (You're practically living up to the secular fervor of America Bad that partially prompted the existence of this thread.) Literally 98% of my post is about religion within the US, not about your own thoughts of the tipping culture or gun ownership or whether or not waiters are dignified workers deserving of a salary system.
« Last Edit: May 20, 2022, 01:34:06 PM by BlueInGreen »
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Offline Spooky

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Re: Perceptions of American Religiosity from Non-Americans
« Reply #18 on: May 20, 2022, 01:26:32 PM »
Americans in general don't give two hoots about foreigner's opinions of America.

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Offline BlueInGreen

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Re: Perceptions of American Religiosity from Non-Americans
« Reply #19 on: May 20, 2022, 01:32:24 PM »
I think it's good that a materially prosperous country like America retains high levels of religiosity on the whole. That's a Good Sign. In Europe, with the exception of rare countries like Catholic Poland, the general trend is in the opposite direction: the more material wealth a country has, the less religious in general its citizens tend to be.

bold: yes, they replace the divine God with a material god.
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Offline Jayne

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Re: Perceptions of American Religiosity from Non-Americans
« Reply #20 on: May 20, 2022, 01:41:56 PM »
I think it's good that a materially prosperous country like America retains high levels of religiosity on the whole. That's a Good Sign. In Europe, with the exception of rare countries like Catholic Poland, the general trend is in the opposite direction: the more material wealth a country has, the less religious in general its citizens tend to be.

bold: yes, they replace the divine God with a material god.

American Protestantism has a tendency to mix the two.  This is how they end up with the "prosperity Gospel" heresy.  There is lip service to the divine God, but He is a means to material wealth.

Religiosity, in itself, is not a good thing.  It can be bad if the religion is bad or false.  Protestantism may be better than secularism, but it is not on the same level as Catholicism, not even close.
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Offline Xavier

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"He [His Grace Archbishop Lefebvre]exhorted them:

Quote from: +ABL
Make every effort to have the Mass of St. Pius V, but if it is impossible to find one within forty kilometers and if there is a pious priest who says the New Mass in as traditional a way as possible, it is good for you to assist at it to fulfill your Sunday obligation."

One can counter the dangers for the Faith through solid catechism:

Quote
Should all the world’s churches be emptied? I do not feel brave enough to say such a thing. I don’t want to encourage atheism."

Taken from: https://sspx.org/en/what-archbishop-lefebvre-said-about-new-mass
 
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Offline Xavier

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Re: Perceptions of American Religiosity from Non-Americans
« Reply #22 on: May 20, 2022, 02:15:29 PM »
Excerpt:
Quote
"U.S. the outlier among rich nations
Not all countries conform neatly to the correlation between rising secularism and prosperity — Italy and Ireland, for example, are well-off First World countries where religiosity remains high, while China and Vietnam, whose regimes are officially atheist, are poor nations that are also among the most secular.

But the U.S. is the most conspicuous outlier among wealthy nations:

80.8 per cent of Americans believe in God and always have, a higher percentage of the population than in any other affluent nation polled in the 2008 International Social Survey Programme (ISSP) religion survey (France had 28.9 per cent lifelong believers, for example, while Britain had 36.7 per cent).
60.6 per cent of Americans say they have no doubt God exists, compared to 15.5 per cent in France and 16.8 per cent in the U.K. (ISSP).
4.4 per cent don't and never have believed in a God, compared to 24.3 in France and 20.0 in the U.K. (ISSP).
24.2 per cent attend religious services once a week, compared to 5.6 per cent in France, 10.0 per cent in the U.K. and 17.7 per cent in Canada, according to the 2006 World Values Survey.
"Europe and the United States seem to be going in very different directions," said Marcus Noland, a senior fellow at the Peterson Institute for International Economics in Washington, D.C., who has written about religion and economic growth."
"He [His Grace Archbishop Lefebvre]exhorted them:

Quote from: +ABL
Make every effort to have the Mass of St. Pius V, but if it is impossible to find one within forty kilometers and if there is a pious priest who says the New Mass in as traditional a way as possible, it is good for you to assist at it to fulfill your Sunday obligation."

One can counter the dangers for the Faith through solid catechism:

Quote
Should all the world’s churches be emptied? I do not feel brave enough to say such a thing. I don’t want to encourage atheism."

Taken from: https://sspx.org/en/what-archbishop-lefebvre-said-about-new-mass
 
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Offline Julio

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Re: Perceptions of American Religiosity from Non-Americans
« Reply #23 on: May 20, 2022, 04:27:36 PM »

American Protestantism has a tendency to mix the two.  This is how they end up with the "prosperity Gospel" heresy.  There is lip service to the divine God, but He is a means to material wealth.

Religiosity, in itself, is not a good thing.  It can be bad if the religion is bad or false.  Protestantism may be better than secularism, but it is not on the same level as Catholicism, not even close.
Thank you for this post. I was so ambivalent to join in the discussion because I've been posting about racist foundation of the secular government of the U.S. in other threads and I maybe misinterpreted as some kind of American hater. I am from the Philippines and I appreciate the U.S. for the government my nation has and my ability to communicate in English as I join in this forum due that my nation was its colony from 1898 until 1946 after the end of WW2.

Yes, the majority of Protestants who are citizens of the U.S. have extremely different perspective in terms of expression of faith. There are so many atheist in the U.S. now although not the same as those in some European nations, but it is in rising state. Worst, many who call themselves Catholics do not believe in the real presence of Jesus in the Holy Eucharist. This phenomenon however is not only true in the U.S. but is spreading like wildfire the way it infects my country. You even doubt the Priests themselves who cooperated with the secular government during the lockdown and closed the Church and stopped celebrating the Mass like the Eucharist can spread the virus.

Truly, this prosperity gospel is a misnomer to call anyone religious. It is attraction to money and other material things that Jesus never taught to anyone. I appreciate the U.S. and other Western nations of technological upliftment of the world. Like this internet is because we experienced the series of wars that included the Cold War.

I know that there are still Americans who are true believers of Jesus and accept whole heartedly the Catholic faith, but they are the minorities and are labelled like weirdos of their fellow citizens. I saw that video of an American priest hugging a bro while celebrating the Mass and that electro mass celebration in Chicago that looks like a satanic ritual with all due respect but I am just being candid, and that makes me think what is going on among fellow Catholics from the U.S.?

I know that Bishop Robert Barron has some issues regarding those teachings but I like him because he crosses the borders of cultural diversities to evangelize it. I see him like the late Bishop Fulton Sheen. I think the American religious inclination shall be reflected by the growing numbers of faithful Catholics who do not believe in abortion and are constantly growing their family. I know that the abortionists opts to be with cats and dogs while enjoying casual sex and that is also true in my country. The future of Catholicism is in the hands of the Catholic families and there are numerous of them in the U.S. today as I understand it. Some Americans can correct me if I am wrong.
 
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Offline Julio

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Re: Perceptions of American Religiosity from Non-Americans
« Reply #24 on: May 20, 2022, 04:29:53 PM »
Excerpt:
Quote
"U.S. the outlier among rich nations
Not all countries conform neatly to the correlation between rising secularism and prosperity — Italy and Ireland, for example, are well-off First World countries where religiosity remains high, while China and Vietnam, whose regimes are officially atheist, are poor nations that are also among the most secular.

But the U.S. is the most conspicuous outlier among wealthy nations:

80.8 per cent of Americans believe in God and always have, a higher percentage of the population than in any other affluent nation polled in the 2008 International Social Survey Programme (ISSP) religion survey (France had 28.9 per cent lifelong believers, for example, while Britain had 36.7 per cent).
60.6 per cent of Americans say they have no doubt God exists, compared to 15.5 per cent in France and 16.8 per cent in the U.K. (ISSP).
4.4 per cent don't and never have believed in a God, compared to 24.3 in France and 20.0 in the U.K. (ISSP).
24.2 per cent attend religious services once a week, compared to 5.6 per cent in France, 10.0 per cent in the U.K. and 17.7 per cent in Canada, according to the 2006 World Values Survey.
"Europe and the United States seem to be going in very different directions," said Marcus Noland, a senior fellow at the Peterson Institute for International Economics in Washington, D.C., who has written about religion and economic growth."


With all due respect, I know that there are satanic organizations in the U.S., and what is the number of them? I have the impression that they are being included in that survey as among the believers.
 

Offline MaximGun

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Re: Perceptions of American Religiosity from Non-Americans
« Reply #25 on: May 20, 2022, 04:33:58 PM »

I'm talking about religiosity in terms of actual religion and the belief in a divine, not politics.

They are joined at the hip in America.  Your pro-abortion pro-sodomy President and half his cabinet are Catholics in good standing with their bishops and cardinals.  They just believe that God is pro-abortion and pro-sodomy too.  But I am sure Biden believes in God, as well as Nancy Pelosi.  They simple believe God is a liberal and leftist like them who wants everyone let into America so that the party of diversity and tolerance can remain in power.
« Last Edit: May 20, 2022, 04:35:55 PM by MaximGun »
 

Offline Julio

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Re: Perceptions of American Religiosity from Non-Americans
« Reply #26 on: May 20, 2022, 04:37:30 PM »
I think it's good that a materially prosperous country like America retains high levels of religiosity on the whole. That's a Good Sign. In Europe, with the exception of rare countries like Catholic Poland, the general trend is in the opposite direction: the more material wealth a country has, the less religious in general its citizens tend to be.

bold: yes, they replace the divine God with a material god.
Worship is about giving priority to what is worthy to anyone. If God is the priority then He is the object of worship. If it is wealth, power and/or honor then they are the object of the worship by a person. The Catholics used to celebrate the goodness of life with attendance of Mass and feasting thereafter in the name of God or the Saint that the people venerate, but now it has been replaced by sports festival, the rock or rap concerts and other secular activities where God is never part of it. Well, religion has been reduced into some kind of hobby or private affair. I see this akin to the society of the pagan Roman Empire.
« Last Edit: May 20, 2022, 04:53:24 PM by Julio »
 

Offline queen.saints

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Re: Perceptions of American Religiosity from Non-Americans
« Reply #27 on: May 20, 2022, 04:59:59 PM »
I think it's good that a materially prosperous country like America retains high levels of religiosity on the whole. That's a Good Sign. In Europe, with the exception of rare countries like Catholic Poland, the general trend is in the opposite direction: the more material wealth a country has, the less religious in general its citizens tend to be.

bold: yes, they replace the divine God with a material god.

American Protestantism has a tendency to mix the two.  This is how they end up with the "prosperity Gospel" heresy.  There is lip service to the divine God, but He is a means to material wealth.

Religiosity, in itself, is not a good thing.  It can be bad if the religion is bad or false.  Protestantism may be better than secularism, but it is not on the same level as Catholicism, not even close.


No, this is not a fair assessment of the American religiosity. What makes America special is that there serious religion is normal: it is normal to care about God and what He wants and to let your life be governed by that view. I did not appreciate this and took it for granted until I went to other countries and realized this was a very special gift to have grown up with. Even traditional Catholics in other countries don’t have that instinctive feeling your average American has. This atmosphere makes it more natural to be a traditional Catholic and to be good in general, because Americans have an assumption when they go outside that they are going to meet religious people and they are not surprised or antagonistic, therefore, when they meet you on the street.

As far as materialism, because taking your religion seriously is normal, Americans are much more accepting of someone living a simple life in lieu of a worldly one. They don’t generally condemn someone  simply for being poor. They like the idea of the millionaire you’d never guess was a millionaire, because he lives way below his means. They like giving money to those in need and to beggars; the beggars themselves are happy, friendly and polite and have absolutely always said “God bless you” whenever they’ve gotten something from us in my lifetime. I like to show foreigners this and it never fails.

In other countries this idea can be literally “a foreign concept”. They can’t even begin to imagine such a thing in a positive way and are 100% convinced people living that way are either extremely lazy or extremely insane. They don’t give to beggars and you can hardly blame them because the beggars are demanding, anti-God, and ungrateful. Even if you say, “God bless you” to them, they almost always refuse to reply back and instead complain that you haven’t given them exactly what they wanted, sometimes literally the clothes off your back.

Of course, not all countries are like this. I once met a Spanish beggar who was had a cross on his shirt and said “God bless you” and a Swiss one who was very polite and grateful.

Other countries have their own special gifts. In some other countries, it is not as normal to care about your Faith, maybe, as America, but it is more normal to unashamedly identify as Catholic and be uncompromising and disinterested towards other religions, which makes it easier to be a traditional Catholic in that sense. Or, in some countries, it is much more normal than in America to use religious phrases in your everyday conversations, which can be a constant reminder of your Faith.

Each country has it’s own special gifts from God and America has them as well or better than any other country.
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Offline Jayne

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Re: Perceptions of American Religiosity from Non-Americans
« Reply #28 on: May 20, 2022, 05:52:36 PM »
What makes America special is that there serious religion is normal...

Each country has it’s own special gifts from God and America has them as well or better than any other country.

I think you are using overly positive language to talk about the existence of false religions.  While they may be better than atheism, ideally they would not exist.  This is not clear when you talk of it being a "special gift" of Americans.

A few years ago, most of us objected to Pope Francis signing a statement that said, "The pluralism and the diversity of religions, color, sex, race and language are willed by God in his wisdom, through which he created human beings."  (A later statement from the Vatican backtracked/ clarified that he meant "permissive will not positive will.)

Pluralism and diversity of religions is not a good thing.  It means that many people believe things that are not true and do not worship God as he ought to be worshipped.  The ideal is that all people believe the truth and are Catholic.  It is not a "special gift" when this does not happen.  It is falling short of the ideal.  God may be able to bring some good from it (like the things you have mentioned), but it is not good.
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Offline queen.saints

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Re: Perceptions of American Religiosity from Non-Americans
« Reply #29 on: May 20, 2022, 06:51:48 PM »
What makes America special is that there serious religion is normal...

Each country has it’s own special gifts from God and America has them as well or better than any other country.

I think you are using overly positive language to talk about the existence of false religions.  While they may be better than atheism, ideally they would not exist.  This is not clear when you talk of it being a "special gift" of Americans.

A few years ago, most of us objected to Pope Francis signing a statement that said, "The pluralism and the diversity of religions, color, sex, race and language are willed by God in his wisdom, through which he created human beings."  (A later statement from the Vatican backtracked/ clarified that he meant "permissive will not positive will.)

Pluralism and diversity of religions is not a good thing.  It means that many people believe things that are not true and do not worship God as he ought to be worshipped.  The ideal is that all people believe the truth and are Catholic.  It is not a "special gift" when this does not happen.  It is falling short of the ideal.  God may be able to bring some good from it (like the things you have mentioned), but it is not good.


Hopefully it is clear in my post that I am not referring positively to false religions, but to the American view of religion and God that is an attitude shared by and which benefits most traditional Catholics there vs the view that is present in most other countries, that is also shared by most of the traditional Catholics.

In a similar and related way, many men around the world who are not Catholic report that generally American women are much more serious about marriage than the women in other countries; this same phenomenon is also reported among the traditional Catholics. Some of those American women are no doubt Protestants who use birth control and perhaps their marriages would be invalid. But their attitude is one of someone who would like to do things right and takes it seriously, vs someone who thinks marriage is bit of a pathetic joke. To say that it is a good thing that it is normal among American women to take marriage seriously is not an endorsement of Protestantism or birth control or invalid marriages.
« Last Edit: May 20, 2022, 06:53:33 PM by queen.saints »
I am sorry for the times I have publicly criticized others on this forum, especially traditional Catholic religious, and any other scandalous posts and pray that no one reads or believes these false and ignorant statements.
 
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