Any saints who were seriously evil and depraved before their conversion?

Started by beev_bove_biv, May 15, 2022, 10:41:20 AM

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beev_bove_biv


Michael Wilson

You can read this book by Reverend Alban Goodier "Saints For Sinners"; has some great stories of sinners that became saints.
https://www.sistersofcarmel.com/saints-for-sinners-archbishop-alban-goodier.php
Saint Mary of Egypt was a prostitute that became an anchorite renowned for her penance and purity of life.
There is a saint who's name escapes me, a Virgin who converted a magician that was sent to pervert her, and he along with her became a martyr.
Here below is the story of  "Blessed" Bartolo Longo (1841-1926) A Satanic high priest, that became a Dominican Tertiary and died in the odor of Sanctity:https://dominicanfriars.org/former-satanist-priest-became-saint/
"The World Must Conform to Our Lord and not He to it." Rev. Dennis Fahey CSSP

"My brothers, all of you, if you are condemned to see the triumph of evil, never applaud it. Never say to evil: you are good; to decadence: you are progess; to death: you are life. Sanctify yourselves in the times wherein God has placed you; bewail the evils and the disorders which God tolerates; oppose them with the energy of your works and your efforts, your life uncontaminated by error, free from being led astray, in such a way that having lived here below, united with the Spirit of the Lord, you will be admitted to be made but one with Him forever and ever: But he who is joined to the Lord is one in spirit." Cardinal Pie of Potiers

Heinrich

Schaff Recht mir Gott und führe meine Sache gegen ein unheiliges Volk . . .   .                          
Lex Orandi, lex credendi, lex vivendi.
"Die Welt sucht nach Ehre, Ansehen, Reichtum, Vergnügen; die Heiligen aber suchen Demütigung, Verachtung, Armut, Abtötung und Buße." --Ausschnitt von der Geschichte des Lebens St. Bennos.

Elizabeth

This is a really good topic.  Back in maybe 2003-04 SSPX had a calendar of such saints and bios.  I just couldn't believe it, and I wish I'd saved it.  Who knew that so many saints had been heroic in service to Our Lord after repenting.  I really thought they all were special from the get-go.  Wonder how we could find more?

St. Rita of Cortona
St. Mary of Egypt

nmoerbeek

Quote from: beev_bove_biv on May 15, 2022, 10:41:20 AM
I mean like really, really bad.

St. Vladimir the Great before his baptism was a bloodthirsty, murderous, pagan who raped his brothers wife after having him murdered.

"Let me, however, beg of Your Beatitude...
not to think so much of what I have written, as of my good and kind intentions. Please look for the truths of which I speak rather than for beauty of expression. Where I do not come up to your expectations, pardon me, and put my shortcomings down, please, to lack of time and stress of business." St. Bonaventure, From the Preface of Holiness of Life.

Apostolate:
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Heinrich

Schaff Recht mir Gott und führe meine Sache gegen ein unheiliges Volk . . .   .                          
Lex Orandi, lex credendi, lex vivendi.
"Die Welt sucht nach Ehre, Ansehen, Reichtum, Vergnügen; die Heiligen aber suchen Demütigung, Verachtung, Armut, Abtötung und Buße." --Ausschnitt von der Geschichte des Lebens St. Bennos.

mikemac

Quote from: Michael Wilson on May 15, 2022, 11:36:37 AM
 
There is a saint who's name escapes me, a Virgin who converted a magician that was sent to pervert her, and he along with her became a martyr.


Possibly Saint Christina?

https://sanctoral.com/en/saints/saint_christina.html


I don't think he was really, really bad, but liked to party too much.  St. Monica prayed for her son St. Augustine for a long time before he converted.

https://www.catholic.org/saints/saint.php?saint_id=1
Like John Vennari (RIP) said "Why not just do it?  What would it hurt?"
Consecrate Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary (PETITION)
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The real nature of hope is "despair, overcome."
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drummerboy

Quote from: nmoerbeek on May 15, 2022, 02:30:28 PM
Quote from: beev_bove_biv on May 15, 2022, 10:41:20 AM
I mean like really, really bad.

St. Vladimir the Great before his baptism was a bloodthirsty, murderous, pagan who raped his brothers wife after having him murdered.

Don't forget the Old Testament and David's murder of Uriah to cover his adultery
- I'll get with the times when the times are worth getting with

"I like grumpy old cusses.  Hope to live long enough to be one" - John Wayne

Elizabeth

There was that occultist Bongo or something...of course St. Augustine. 

james03

St. Augustine

Fr. Andreas Wouters of the Martyrs of Gorkum:

QuoteTo be blunt, Andreas Wouters had been a lousy priest.  A drunkard and notorious womanizer,  he had fathered several children.  Suspended from his duties  he was living in disgrace when the Sea Beggars captured Gorkum.  This was his cue to run as far away as possible, based on his past history.  Instead, perhaps understanding that God was giving him maybe his last chance to redeem himself, he volunteered to join the captive priests and brothers.

....  As the noose was being fastened around his neck, his captors kept mocking Father Wouters.  His last words before he entered eternity were:   Fornicator I always was; heretic I never was.
"But he that doth not believe, is already judged: because he believeth not in the name of the only begotten Son of God (Jn 3:18)."

"All sorrow leads to the foot of the Cross.  Weep for your sins."

"Although He should kill me, I will trust in Him"

MaximGun

Really really bad, no.

There are no former sodomite saints. No corrupters of children.  No abortionist saints.  There does appear to be a line which if you cross you are not going to become a saint or even die in a state of grace.  A prostitute in the past cannot be compared to a prostitute in the Western world today. The motive and alternative options for keeping yourself fed are very different.

The idea that really evil people convert simply is not translated into reality.  If there were really really evil people who became saints we would know about it because it makes a more interesting tale.



Julio

^^I think Saint Paul by persecuting and killing the believers of Jesus was really that bad. Killing is a mortal sin in the first place that equals those sinful acts that you mentioned.

Greg

I can think of three who caused the loss of millions of souls and never even converted or regretted their actions - as far as we have even 1 iota of evidence for.

Saints are not what they used to be.
Contentment is knowing that you're right. Happiness is knowing that someone else is wrong.

Jayne

Quote from: MaximGun on May 18, 2022, 12:05:11 AMThere does appear to be a line which if you cross you are not going to become a saint or even die in a state of grace. 

All the evidence suggests that Dr. Bernard Nathanson died in a state of grace. 

He was an abortionist who personally killed thousands of babies, oversaw the murders of tens of thousands more, and, as a founder of NARAL, contributed to the deaths of millions beyond that.

He came to understand the evil that he had done and became active in the Prolife movement.  Eventually he was baptized as a Catholic and remained a Catholic in good standing up to the time of his death.

There is nothing in Catholic teaching about crossing a line beyond the reach of God's grace.  That just somebody's personal opinion which we are free to ignore.  And so we should.

As far as the Church is concerned, anybody can convert.  This is the meaning of the parable of the Vineyard Workers. (Matt 20:1-16)  Those who wasted most of the day and were only hired on to work at the very end of the day still received the full wage.

Corinthians 6: 9-11 contains a (non-exhaustive) list of sins that can be forgiven.

QuoteKnow you not that the unjust shall not possess the kingdom of God? Do not err: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, [10] Nor the effeminate, nor liers with mankind, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor railers, nor extortioners, shall possess the kingdom of God.  And such some of you were; but you are washed, but you are sanctified, but you are justified in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, and the Spirit of our God.

(The phrase "liers with mankind" refers to sodomy.  This sin is explicitly mentioned as one from which people were justified and sanctified, so MG is wrong about this too.)

Whatever we have done, we can be washed, sanctified and justified in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ and the Spirit of our God.  Anyone who said that our sins are too great to be forgiven and told us to give up on salvation would be guilty of counselling despair, itself a serious sin.
Jesus, meek and humble of heart, make my heart like unto Thine.

Bernadette

I remember reading that a really bad Nazi commandant went to confession before his execution. That was pretty cool.
My Lord and my God.