Author Topic: Secular musicians at Catholic events  (Read 453 times)

Offline Michael Wilson

  • St. Joseph's Workbench
  • Hauptmann
  • ****
  • Posts: 9879
  • Thanked: 9596 times
  • Religion: Catholic
Re: Secular musicians at Catholic events
« Reply #15 on: May 13, 2022, 06:54:01 PM »
The infamous Guitar "Masses" started in the '60s. Drove Catholics away by the boatload; many never came back.
"The World Must Conform to Our Lord and not He to it." Rev. Dennis Fahey CSSP

"My brothers, all of you, if you are condemned to see the triumph of evil, never applaud it. Never say to evil: you are good; to decadence: you are progess; to death: you are life. Sanctify yourselves in the times wherein God has placed you; bewail the evils and the disorders which God tolerates; oppose them with the energy of your works and your efforts, your life uncontaminated by error, free from being led astray, in such a way that having lived here below, united with the Spirit of the Lord, you will be admitted to be made but one with Him forever and ever: But he who is joined to the Lord is one in spirit." Cardinal Pie of Potiers
 
The following users thanked this post: Jayne

Offline mikemac

  • Major
  • ****
  • Posts: 10282
  • Thanked: 7249 times
  • Religion: Catholic
Re: Secular musicians at Catholic events
« Reply #16 on: May 13, 2022, 07:02:16 PM »
DIY

Man this is lame.   :vomit:

Jerusalema is what all the nurses were choreographing their dance moves to back in 2000, you know when they were suppose to be so so busy with the "pandemic".
Like John Vennari (RIP) said "Why not just do it?  What would it hurt?"
Consecrate Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary (PETITION)
https://lifepetitions.com/petition/consecrate-russia-to-the-immaculate-heart-of-mary-petition

"We would be mistaken to think that Fatima’s prophetic mission is complete." Benedict XVI May 13, 2010

"Tell people that God gives graces through the Immaculate Heart of Mary.  Tell them also to pray to the Immaculate Heart of Mary for peace, since God has entrusted it to Her." Saint Jacinta Marto

The real nature of hope is “despair, overcome.”
Source
 

Offline Innocent Smith

  • Wachtmeister
  • ***
  • Posts: 1395
  • Thanked: 829 times
  • Religion: Roman Catholic
Re: Secular musicians at Catholic events
« Reply #17 on: May 13, 2022, 07:21:05 PM »
If people want to hear pop music, they can find much better venues for entertainment.  Pop music to attract people to religious events will be a flop.

Yes, I always say that when the Church tries to be "cool," they always miss by about 30 years. Back in the Nineties the Vatican made a big deal about Bob Dylan performing for JPII. I remember thinking, "Bob Dylan? Have any young people ever even heard of this guy?" By the time the Vatican got around to using Bob Dylan to try to make themselves look cool, a full 30 years had passed since the era when he was culturally relevant.

I get your drift, but I can't let this go without saying Bob will always be relevant.
I am going to hold a pistol to the head of the modern man. But I shall not use it to kill him, only to bring him to life.
 

Offline Innocent Smith

  • Wachtmeister
  • ***
  • Posts: 1395
  • Thanked: 829 times
  • Religion: Roman Catholic
Re: Secular musicians at Catholic events
« Reply #18 on: May 13, 2022, 07:45:19 PM »

Guitar Mass. When these started at my church in the early 70s, it was meant to attract the youth with the folk music sound that was popular in that era. Even back then, it failed to bring in the youth.

Yes, good point. There's nothing that teenagers find less appealing than grown-ups who don't act their age in order to pander to children. The high-school teacher who speaks with current teenage slang is not popular. Nothing is considered more "cringe" than parents who want to emulate their children.

Here is a movie where Elvis Presley and Mary Tyler Moore introduce the guitar Mass to old fogeys. The idea that anyone at all found this appealing is not credible.


But like all things done in the name of V2, there's a stubborn refusal to admit error, preferring to continue the embarrassment of bad decisions.

Yes, it's as if the Coca-Cola company was still trying to push "New Coke" decades after it flopped, or as if Ford were still today trying to get people to buy Edsels.

That's so cool that The King of Rock And Roll sings the Introit for The King of Kings.

I do not pretend to know the story on this one, but we can safely assume that the Catholic League of Decency or some other Catholic group set up to influence Hollywood was behind this idea and suggested the film be made. And these are not minor celebrities in this picture.

This film being made right at the time the Novus Ordo was being introduced is worthy of study along with other cultural events that were taking place concurrently. Whether this movie was made before or after, for instance Woodstock, matters not as those kind of festivals had obviously been going on throughout the '60s. So I really can't blame those in leadership positions trying to reach youth through the type of music they thought they might better relate to.

But this folly is actually nothing in comparison to the vast majority of Catholics being complete ignoramuses on matters of Faith and Doctrine.  And this seems to have existed for most of Church history.
I am going to hold a pistol to the head of the modern man. But I shall not use it to kill him, only to bring him to life.
 

Offline mikemac

  • Major
  • ****
  • Posts: 10282
  • Thanked: 7249 times
  • Religion: Catholic
Re: Secular musicians at Catholic events
« Reply #19 on: May 13, 2022, 08:16:00 PM »

That's so cool that The King of Rock And Roll sings the Introit for The King of Kings.


Yea, pretty cool.  You'd almost think he converted.

Miracle Of The Rosary - Elvis Presley


Like John Vennari (RIP) said "Why not just do it?  What would it hurt?"
Consecrate Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary (PETITION)
https://lifepetitions.com/petition/consecrate-russia-to-the-immaculate-heart-of-mary-petition

"We would be mistaken to think that Fatima’s prophetic mission is complete." Benedict XVI May 13, 2010

"Tell people that God gives graces through the Immaculate Heart of Mary.  Tell them also to pray to the Immaculate Heart of Mary for peace, since God has entrusted it to Her." Saint Jacinta Marto

The real nature of hope is “despair, overcome.”
Source
 

Offline Jayne

  • Mary Garden
  • Major
  • ****
  • Posts: 15880
  • Thanked: 8235 times
  • Comic Sans Frontières
  • Religion: Roman Catholic
Re: Secular musicians at Catholic events
« Reply #20 on: May 13, 2022, 08:25:46 PM »
Some background on Elvis's "Miracle of the Rosary" from https://www.scross.co.za/2017/08/elvis-presley-rosary/

Quote
The writer was Lee Denson, one of Elvis’ first friends after the Presley family moved from Tupelo, Mississippi to Memphis in 1948, when Elvis was 13. It was Lee, two years older, who taught Elvis his first guitar chords. Denson went on to have a career as a rockabilly singer, with some success but no hits. In 1957 he and Elvis played together on stage for the first and last time, at a charity concert.

In 1961 Denson had a rare get-together with his old friend, during which he played “Miracle Of The Rosary”, which he had recorded the previous year, to Elvis. They never met again. It took Presley ten years before he recorded the song; what prompted him to do it at that time seems unknown. In the interim, Denson had recorded the song himself. Now, in 1971, Elvis associate Red West (who died in July this year) phoned Denson to announce that “Miracle Of The Rosary” would be on Presley’s LP. Denson received royalties from the song for the rest of his life.

The kicker is: Lee Denson was the son of a minister at the Pentecostal church which the Presley family attended. In fact, while he always remained a believer, he was not a particularly good Christian — until one day in the late 1950s, Denson felt what he later described as “a powerful inner force” surging through his body. He and his wife Mary were unnerved by the experiences and somehow decided to pray the Rosary. The following day they went to Mass, and in short order converted to Catholicism. “Miracle Of The Rosary” is a testament of that conversion.

Denson died on November 6, 2007 at the age of 75. His funeral Mass was celebrated in Memphis’ Catholic church of St Teresa. His remains were interred at the city’s Calvary Cemetery — on Elvis Presley Boulevard. On his gravestone a final message is engraved: “Thanks once again for the Miracle of the Rosary”.
Jesus, meek and humble of heart, make my heart like unto Thine.
 
The following users thanked this post: mikemac, Michael Wilson

Offline mikemac

  • Major
  • ****
  • Posts: 10282
  • Thanked: 7249 times
  • Religion: Catholic
Re: Secular musicians at Catholic events
« Reply #21 on: May 13, 2022, 09:09:55 PM »
Cool story Jayne.  After posting the video, which is not in sync with the music, I got wondering whether it was an impersonator that was singing the song.  Glad you posted that, to prove Elvis did record it.  Cool conversion story too.
Like John Vennari (RIP) said "Why not just do it?  What would it hurt?"
Consecrate Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary (PETITION)
https://lifepetitions.com/petition/consecrate-russia-to-the-immaculate-heart-of-mary-petition

"We would be mistaken to think that Fatima’s prophetic mission is complete." Benedict XVI May 13, 2010

"Tell people that God gives graces through the Immaculate Heart of Mary.  Tell them also to pray to the Immaculate Heart of Mary for peace, since God has entrusted it to Her." Saint Jacinta Marto

The real nature of hope is “despair, overcome.”
Source
 
The following users thanked this post: Jayne, Michael Wilson

Offline Elizabeth

  • Mary Garden
  • Hauptmann
  • ****
  • Posts: 5172
  • Thanked: 2340 times
Re: Secular musicians at Catholic events
« Reply #22 on: May 13, 2022, 09:10:30 PM »
If people want to hear pop music, they can find much better venues for entertainment.  Pop music to attract people to religious events will be a flop.

Yes, I always say that when the Church tries to be "cool," they always miss by about 30 years. Back in the Nineties the Vatican made a big deal about Bob Dylan performing for JPII. I remember thinking, "Bob Dylan? Have any young people ever even heard of this guy?" By the time the Vatican got around to using Bob Dylan to try to make themselves look cool, a full 30 years had passed since the era when he was culturally relevant.
Wait till Heinrich shatters your dreams...


I get your drift, but I can't let this go without saying Bob will always be relevant.
 

Offline dellery

  • Jedburgh
  • St. Joseph's Workbench
  • Feldwebel
  • ***
  • Posts: 3481
  • Thanked: 1511 times
Re: Secular musicians at Catholic events
« Reply #23 on: May 13, 2022, 10:59:46 PM »
Is it appropriate to use popular secular musicians to attract youth to Catholic events?  A big "box office draw" might attract people who would otherwise not attend.  But would a secular performer compromise the Christian message?

Appropriate? Probably not, and yes, it is likely a secular performer, and their fans, would compromise a Christian message. In this situation the ones governing the crowd would be the performers. The Knights of Columbus will allow their halls to be used for music venues, and it's doubtful a single non-Catholic attendee has ever said "these KoC guys are so cool for letting us use their hall that I wanna be like them."

Pop music is an effective means to infiltrate people's minds. A Catholic can jam the suggestions in pop music with the effective use of mixing and sampling. This probably won't cause anybody to convert to Catholicism but can be used to clear rocky ground so-to-speak. Mix pop music to create your own suggestions that will stimulate people to contemplate Heaven.
Blessed are those who plant trees under whose shade they will never sit.

The closer you get to life the better death will be; the closer you get to death the better life will be.

Nous Defions
St. Phillip Neri, pray for us.
 

Offline TraddingtonBear

  • Hellebardier
  • *
  • Posts: 14
  • Thanked: 23 times
  • Religion: Catholic
Re: Secular musicians at Catholic events
« Reply #24 on: May 13, 2022, 11:04:35 PM »
I think it's best that we infiltrate the world with the Church, and not infiltrate the Church with the world. IYKWIM.
« Last Edit: May 13, 2022, 11:06:09 PM by TraddingtonBear »
 
The following users thanked this post: Acolyte, MushroomRooster

Offline dellery

  • Jedburgh
  • St. Joseph's Workbench
  • Feldwebel
  • ***
  • Posts: 3481
  • Thanked: 1511 times
Re: Secular musicians at Catholic events
« Reply #25 on: May 13, 2022, 11:12:19 PM »
I think it's best that we infiltrate the world with the Church, and not infiltrate the Church with the world. IYKWIM.

Of course. Take pop music, mix it up, and direct it outwards, but don't let it inside.
This is where Vatican II went wrong. The Church should never have changed for man, man should have been changed for the Church.
Blessed are those who plant trees under whose shade they will never sit.

The closer you get to life the better death will be; the closer you get to death the better life will be.

Nous Defions
St. Phillip Neri, pray for us.
 
The following users thanked this post: MushroomRooster

Offline MushroomRooster

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 27
  • Thanked: 30 times
Re: Secular musicians at Catholic events
« Reply #26 on: May 13, 2022, 11:13:19 PM »
Pop music is how I almost left Christianity. Don't do it. Those Protestant masses were bad enough for me.
 

Offline Miriam_M

  • Mary Garden
  • Hauptmann
  • ****
  • Posts: 8257
  • Thanked: 7022 times
  • Never have been "MiriamB"
  • Religion: Traditional Roman Catholic
Re: Secular musicians at Catholic events
« Reply #27 on: May 14, 2022, 03:52:19 AM »
I think it's best that we infiltrate the world with the Church, and not infiltrate the Church with the world.

THIS.