Trolley Problem

Started by StGemmaGalgani, April 20, 2022, 09:49:39 AM

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josh987654321

#30
April 21, 2022, 12:44:52 AM Last Edit: April 21, 2022, 01:28:55 AM by josh987654321
Quote from: StGemmaGalgani on April 20, 2022, 09:49:39 AM
What is a Catholic response to the trolley problem, where you are on a trolley and you have to option to sacrifice one for the other. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trolley_problem
What option was not be sinful?

It's a false dichotomy IMO.

Life circumstances don't work like this and if anything it would be more like the difference between euthanasia and the removal of certain drugs leading to death, the end result is the same but the intent makes it a mortal sin or not.

In the same way, you'd try to stop the trolley and save lives, but to give up on that so to speak and directly choose to deliberately kill one person for the "greater good" makes it evil because your intent was to kill.

As the next stage of the trolley experiment goes, what if there are two... or three... or maybe just 1 less then on the other track, what if the lone person is a close loved one, what if they have a cure for cancer? etc which is where the "greater good" evil always leads to which in the end justifies to the person all manner of evils and never leads to anything good.

God Bless.
"I will not delude you with prospects of peace and consolations; on the contrary, prepare for great battles. Know that you are now on a great stage where all heaven and earth are watching you. Fight like a knight, so that I can reward you. Do not be unduly fearful, because you are not alone." (Diary, 1760)

"It is in My Passion that you must seek light and strength." (Diary, 654)

"I never reject a contrite heart." (Diary, 1485)

josh987654321

#31
April 21, 2022, 12:56:16 AM
"I will not delude you with prospects of peace and consolations; on the contrary, prepare for great battles. Know that you are now on a great stage where all heaven and earth are watching you. Fight like a knight, so that I can reward you. Do not be unduly fearful, because you are not alone." (Diary, 1760)

"It is in My Passion that you must seek light and strength." (Diary, 654)

"I never reject a contrite heart." (Diary, 1485)

Justin Martyr

#32
April 21, 2022, 06:18:21 AM
Quote from: Greg on April 20, 2022, 11:34:46 PM
Kill all 6.  Blame the Russians or Climate Change.

:lol: :lol: :lol:
The least departure from Tradition leads to a scorning of every dogma of the Faith.
St. Photios the Great, Encyclical to the Eastern Patriarchs

CANON I: As for all persons who dare to violate the definition of the holy and great Synod convened in Nicaea in the presence of Eusebeia, the consort of the most God-beloved Emperor Constantine, concerning the holy festival of the soterial Pascha, we decree that they be excluded from Communion and be outcasts from the Church if they persist more captiously in objecting to the decisions that have been made as most fitting in regard thereto; and let these things be said with reference to laymen. But if any of the person occupying prominent positions in the Church, such as a Bishop, or a Presbyter, or a Deacon, after the adoption of this definition, should dare to insist upon having his own way, to the perversion of the laity, and to the disturbance of the church, and upon celebrating Pascha along with the Jews, the holy Synod has hence judged that person to be an alien to the Church, on the ground that he has not only become guilty of sin by himself, but has also been the cause of corruption and perversion among the multitude. Accordingly, it not only deposes such persons from the liturgy, but also those who dare to commune with them after their deposition. Moreover, those who have been deposed are to be deprived of the external honor too of which the holy Canon and God's priesthood have partaken.
The Council of Antioch 341, recieved by the Council of Chalcedon

Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, have mercy on me a sinner.

Justin Martyr

#33
April 21, 2022, 06:20:47 AM
    Quote from: TerrorDæmonum on April 21, 2022, 12:11:58 AM
    Bizarre glorification[/b] of violence...I think[/li]
    [/list]

    To be fair to Greg, I'm pretty sure he just has a dark, british sense of humor. I don't think there was any real intent to glorify violence.
    The least departure from Tradition leads to a scorning of every dogma of the Faith.
    St. Photios the Great, Encyclical to the Eastern Patriarchs

    CANON I: As for all persons who dare to violate the definition of the holy and great Synod convened in Nicaea in the presence of Eusebeia, the consort of the most God-beloved Emperor Constantine, concerning the holy festival of the soterial Pascha, we decree that they be excluded from Communion and be outcasts from the Church if they persist more captiously in objecting to the decisions that have been made as most fitting in regard thereto; and let these things be said with reference to laymen. But if any of the person occupying prominent positions in the Church, such as a Bishop, or a Presbyter, or a Deacon, after the adoption of this definition, should dare to insist upon having his own way, to the perversion of the laity, and to the disturbance of the church, and upon celebrating Pascha along with the Jews, the holy Synod has hence judged that person to be an alien to the Church, on the ground that he has not only become guilty of sin by himself, but has also been the cause of corruption and perversion among the multitude. Accordingly, it not only deposes such persons from the liturgy, but also those who dare to commune with them after their deposition. Moreover, those who have been deposed are to be deprived of the external honor too of which the holy Canon and God's priesthood have partaken.
    The Council of Antioch 341, recieved by the Council of Chalcedon

    Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, have mercy on me a sinner.

    TerrorDæmonum

    #34
    April 21, 2022, 11:27:21 AM
    Quote from: Justin Martyr on April 21, 2022, 06:20:47 AM
    To be fair to Greg, I'm pretty sure he just has a dark, british sense of humor. I don't think there was any real intent to glorify violence.

    I'm aware that the response was likely scurillity rather than anything more serious, but this thread was created by a young girl in difficult circumstances about the Catholic moral teaching regarding this famous hypothetical problem. I do not know why exactly it was asked, but I do know that proper formation of moral understanding is essential, and there are many errors in the world that surround us, even me.

    This was a simple question about moral theology from someone who is young, may have a hostile family, and may be asking for a specific reason: what is the Catholic response? Scurrilous, wrong, and misleading replies are highly inappropriate.

    Alleged adults should be better. There are a time and place for these things: this is the time and place for serious correct replies. The feelings of adult men do not matter. "Only joking" is not an excuse.

    AlNg

    #35
    April 30, 2022, 04:26:39 PM
    Quote from: TerrorDæmonum on April 20, 2022, 09:53:31 PM
    Being quarrelsome is a sin
    Ha Ha. You bring up self defense and then you quibble and quarrel about the fact that I commented on a post of yours.

    AlNg

    #36
    April 30, 2022, 04:28:38 PM
    Quote from: josh987654321 on April 21, 2022, 12:44:52 AM

    In the same way, you'd try to stop the trolley and save lives, but to give up on that so to speak and directly choose to deliberately kill one person for the "greater good" makes it evil because your intent was to kill.

    As the next stage of the trolley experiment goes, what if there are two... or three... or maybe just 1 less then on the other track, what if the lone person is a close loved one, what if they have a cure for cancer? etc which is where the "greater good" evil always leads to which in the end justifies to the person all manner of evils and never leads to anything good.

    God Bless.
    You can not be sure that your choice is for the greater good.

    josh987654321

    #37
    May 01, 2022, 04:38:05 AM Last Edit: May 01, 2022, 04:43:41 AM by josh987654321
    Quote from: AlNg on April 30, 2022, 04:28:38 PM
    You can not be sure that your choice is for the greater good.

    Exactly, it becomes increasingly discretionary and at the end of the day, the intent made it evil. It's one thing if a whole bunch of people died but you tried to save them or tried to save as many as you could, one can live with that, but if just one innocent person dies that you decided to intentionally kill for the 'greater good', it's something nobody could live with because it was a conscious choice and through fallible wisdom.

    God Bless
    "I will not delude you with prospects of peace and consolations; on the contrary, prepare for great battles. Know that you are now on a great stage where all heaven and earth are watching you. Fight like a knight, so that I can reward you. Do not be unduly fearful, because you are not alone." (Diary, 1760)

    "It is in My Passion that you must seek light and strength." (Diary, 654)

    "I never reject a contrite heart." (Diary, 1485)

    Tennessean

    #38
    May 22, 2022, 05:16:01 PM
    Quote from: Greg on April 20, 2022, 11:43:36 PM


    Growing up makes us weak.
    I love that video XD Here's the sequel:

    [yt]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZULuedsaB9U[/yt]

    clau clau

    #39
    May 27, 2022, 11:13:54 AM
    Father time has an undefeated record.

    But when he's dumb and no more here,
    Nineteen hundred years or near,
    Clau-Clau-Claudius shall speak clear.
    (https://completeandunabridged.blogspot.com/2009/06/i-claudius.html)
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