Mortal sinner turned vegetable

Penelope · January 27, 2013, 08:57:50 PM

Here's a hypothetical question that I've been pondering today. Let's suppose that a Catholic commits a mortal sin but hasn't confessed yet. Before the person can get to confession, he is in a tragic automobile accident. He doesn't die, but he has suffered a traumatic brain injury and has effectively become a vegetable as a result of the accident, with no obvious way to communicate to the outside world. He could live for a good many years like this, so there's still time for him to repent of his sin, but how is he supposed to express his contrition to a priest? I know that we can't know for sure what happens to this man's hypothetical soul, but can we give an intelligent guess?

Mithrandylan · January 27, 2013, 09:01:03 PM

We don't know what goes on in his mind. He can make a perfect act of contrition. Or not. All the more reason to avoid mortal sin!

zork · January 27, 2013, 09:07:57 PM

I can only say that perhaps God would be moved by prayers for that hypothetical person, particularly if this the person's loved ones prayed to the Blessed Mother for her intercessions on the person's behalf.

MilesChristi · January 27, 2013, 09:10:41 PM

The question is whether a vegetable can make an act of the will.

MilesChristi · January 27, 2013, 09:14:59 PM

My question is what about an Alzheimer's patient that forgets his sins?
If he hypothetically forgets hes in a state of mortal sin, what happens?
If he was planning to go to Confession and then promptly forgot, along with his sin.

zork · January 27, 2013, 09:29:14 PM

I would guess that in the case of the hypothetical alzheimer's patient, s/he would perhaps be given less culpability on account that they had intended to obtain absolution (shortly) before the ravages of alzheimers took hold.

Just my cautious opinion at the moment.

poche · January 27, 2013, 11:13:47 PM

He can make an act of perfect contrition. I would be a great charity if someone nearby would lead him in making such an act.

Mithrandylan · January 28, 2013, 12:15:03 AM

Do any of you know what you would consider to be a faithful and devout Catholic with dementia?

I have theorized, with absolutely no evidence (other than the fact that I know of no faithful and devout Catholics like this) that dementia may be a punishment for the unfaithful. It's a difficult thought, but it sure is an awful state to be in. I think of it as being one of two things: either, as Vak says that their culpability is lessened or that the dementia is a punishment for a life of sin. They say we die like we live, ya know. And of course, it might be both, depending on the instance.

totiusque · January 28, 2013, 12:25:43 AM

Quote from: Mithrandylan on January 28, 2013, 12:15:03 AM
Do any of you know what you would consider to be a faithful and devout Catholic with dementia?

I have theorized, with absolutely no evidence (other than the fact that I know of no faithful and devout Catholics like this) that dementia may be a punishment for the unfaithful. It's a difficult thought, but it sure is an awful state to be in. I think of it as being one of two things: either, as Vak says that their culpability is lessened or that the dementia is a punishment for a life of sin. They say we die like we live, ya know. And of course, it might be both, depending on the instance.

My wife's grandmother fell into this in her later years, where she would even forget her own children. However, she would still receive the Eucharist daily and remained as "devout" a Catholic as one can be in that state. I liken that condition to either a child not yet at the age of reason or to one with Down's Syndrome. I can't see how one can be culpable if one doesn't even know what one is doing, or long enough to remember it anyway.

As for unconfessed mortal sins, that's a tough one, and only God knows the state of each soul. And as you mentioned earlier, all the reason to avoid mortal sin at all costs.

One note: I really dislike the use of the word "vegetable" to describe a human being. Not speaking to anyone on this forum, but in the public arena, this term is used to denigrate human beings who are supposedly "brain dead", which is not a scientifically proveable condition. As we saw with Terri Schiavo, the lawyers for her husband used this rhetoric to prove that she was no longer a living person, even though the proof was there for all of us to see. And we all know how that evil tragedy ended.

Penelope · January 28, 2013, 12:42:14 AM

You're right; it really is a terrible term. Is there a better, more medically accurate term we can substitute? "Braid dead" doesn't quite cut it either. I've heard "persistent vegetative state," but that doesn't really eliminate the "vegetable" aspect of the term.

totiusque · January 28, 2013, 03:03:24 AM

Per this medical dictionary site, vegetative state is the correct term, but they also say "coma vigil" can be used synonymously.

http://medical-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/vegetative+state

erin is nice · January 28, 2013, 08:08:39 AM

Doesn't Extreme Unction remit mortal sins in people who are unable to make a confession?

Mithrandylan · January 28, 2013, 08:43:01 AM

Quote from: erin is nice on January 28, 2013, 08:08:39 AM
Doesn't Extreme Unction remit mortal sins in people who are unable to make a confession?

If they're sorry for them.

Non Nobis · February 01, 2013, 09:57:11 PM

Quote from: Mithrandylan on January 28, 2013, 12:15:03 AM
Do any of you know what you would consider to be a faithful and devout Catholic with dementia?

I have theorized, with absolutely no evidence (other than the fact that I know of no faithful and devout Catholics like this) that dementia may be a punishment for the unfaithful. It's a difficult thought, but it sure is an awful state to be in. I think of it as being one of two things: either, as Vak says that their culpability is lessened or that the dementia is a punishment for a life of sin. They say we die like we live, ya know. And of course, it might be both, depending on the instance.

I understand that St. Therese's father suffered from dementia at the end of his life, but he certainly lived no life of sin. There's a story that he pointed up ("we will meet again in heaven") the last time he saw St. Therese.

We don't know all the reasons that God might have for dementia. It is a kind of horrible suffering for the person who has it, but also for those who love him. Like any suffering, it is not necessarily punishment (or if it is punishment, it may be purgatory on earth even for one who is still faithful, but (only for example) has committed the sin of intellectual pride). It may do the good and show the love that other crosses can (we don't know that the person who has it is incapable of love).

But I think (or speculate) that just as God does not guarantee us freedom from bodily death, He does not guarantee us that we should be intellectually aware (and so able to will good) until we die, or at least at "the last moment". Perhaps someone's last chance to repent could occur well before the physical end - more reason to not postpone repentance.

voxxpopulisuxx · February 02, 2013, 09:24:54 AM

Quote from: MilesChristi on January 27, 2013, 09:10:41 PM
The question is whether a vegetable can make an act of the will.

the question is ...is there any such a person. Vegetation state is an atheistic marxist term invented by the culture of death. If a person is living and breathing on their own and their bodys are not disintegrating and are generally working normally...requiring only to be feed and hydrated...this person is a human being with an active soul and will. Therefore unbeknownst to us that person could be doing what I hope I would be doing ...mentally praying....Id be saying hailmarys over and over and the Jesus Prayer (see my sig line) anyway my 2cents