Is there any reasonable chance this person is in heaven?

Started by Bernadette, June 14, 2023, 04:03:27 PM

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Bernadette

Quote from: TheSaintsAreComing on June 26, 2023, 02:35:50 AMI take it he wasn't Catholic, since you're sure his mortal sin was never absolved?

Honestly unless madness of such strength that the one suffering from it does not actually know what he's doing is present, anyone committing suicide is pretty much a lost cause
No, he wasn't baptized at all.
My Lord and my God.

james03

QuoteIf these men are in heaven, why should any of us, who are trying to practice the Catholic Faith of our forefathers, even try?

In game theory this is a no-lose proposition for us.  We decide to follow the Traditional Catholic Faith.  Maybe we are wrong, and Pope St. Wojtyla, Witchdoctor of the Church, Patron of Islam went straight to heaven.

Considering idolatry is the most gravest of sins, we could spend the rest of our lives snorting piles of coke and attending rave parties, and we'd have a higher place in heaven.

If we're right, God willing, we've saved our souls by ignoring the modernist teachings.

So according to game theory, the decision is to practice the Traditional Faith.
"But he that doth not believe, is already judged: because he believeth not in the name of the only begotten Son of God (Jn 3:18)."

"All sorrow leads to the foot of the Cross.  Weep for your sins."

"Although He should kill me, I will trust in Him"

Baylee

Quote from: Bonaventure on June 25, 2023, 11:58:49 PMA conservative Novus Ordo priest I know and like, who is decent, has faith, and says the TLM, discussed this issue with me. We talked about how these Novus Ordo clergy do not have the perennial Catholic faith, and how this white vestment "funeral" was an absolutely scandalous canonization.

I remarked that it is almost assured that this bastard is in Hell.

The priest retorted, in typical Novus Ordo fashion, "well we can't say that, remember the Jean Vianney story? The guy who jumped off the bridge?"

So, when push comes to shove, he's really no different than the others. Do any Novus Ordites, whether lay or clerical, believe anyone's in Hell except maybe Hitler?

As for the funeral you described, it's getting to the point that every Novus Ordo funeral is scandalous.

Bonaventure

Quote from: Baylee on June 26, 2023, 11:25:14 AM
Quote from: Bonaventure on June 25, 2023, 11:58:49 PMA conservative Novus Ordo priest I know and like, who is decent, has faith, and says the TLM, discussed this issue with me. We talked about how these Novus Ordo clergy do not have the perennial Catholic faith, and how this white vestment "funeral" was an absolutely scandalous canonization.

I remarked that it is almost assured that this bastard is in Hell.

The priest retorted, in typical Novus Ordo fashion, "well we can't say that, remember the Jean Vianney story? The guy who jumped off the bridge?"

So, when push comes to shove, he's really no different than the others. Do any Novus Ordites, whether lay or clerical, believe anyone's in Hell except maybe Hitler?

As for the funeral you described, it's getting to the point that every Novus Ordo funeral is scandalous.

I witnessed the travesty via live stream, as it during Coof time in CA.

I was filled with rage. Wife walked out.

I met this poor lady in passing when I'd drop my wife off at work.

My wife taught her youngest son and could see the devastation.

This poor lady received communion kneeling, and in the tongue, veiled, in a New Church environment.

I pray that she was welcomed into the Heavenly Jerusalem and prays for all of us, especially her children.

I've stopped going to pretty much every NO funeral unless it is immediate family. Even then, I hate it, and try to sit alone in the back.
"If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me."

Baylee

Quote from: Bonaventure on June 26, 2023, 12:37:32 PM
Quote from: Baylee on June 26, 2023, 11:25:14 AM
Quote from: Bonaventure on June 25, 2023, 11:58:49 PMA conservative Novus Ordo priest I know and like, who is decent, has faith, and says the TLM, discussed this issue with me. We talked about how these Novus Ordo clergy do not have the perennial Catholic faith, and how this white vestment "funeral" was an absolutely scandalous canonization.

I remarked that it is almost assured that this bastard is in Hell.

The priest retorted, in typical Novus Ordo fashion, "well we can't say that, remember the Jean Vianney story? The guy who jumped off the bridge?"

So, when push comes to shove, he's really no different than the others. Do any Novus Ordites, whether lay or clerical, believe anyone's in Hell except maybe Hitler?

As for the funeral you described, it's getting to the point that every Novus Ordo funeral is scandalous.

I witnessed the travesty via live stream, as it during Coof time in CA.

I was filled with rage. Wife walked out.

I met this poor lady in passing when I'd drop my wife off at work.

My wife taught her youngest son and could see the devastation.

This poor lady received communion kneeling, and in the tongue, veiled, in a New Church environment.

I pray that she was welcomed into the Heavenly Jerusalem and prays for all of us, especially her children.

I've stopped going to pretty much every NO funeral unless it is immediate family. Even then, I hate it, and try to sit alone in the back.

It's truly heartbreaking on so many levels.

dymphna17

Quote from: Bonaventure on June 26, 2023, 12:37:32 PM
Quote from: Baylee on June 26, 2023, 11:25:14 AM
Quote from: Bonaventure on June 25, 2023, 11:58:49 PMA conservative Novus Ordo priest I know and like, who is decent, has faith, and says the TLM, discussed this issue with me. We talked about how these Novus Ordo clergy do not have the perennial Catholic faith, and how this white vestment "funeral" was an absolutely scandalous canonization.

I remarked that it is almost assured that this bastard is in Hell.

The priest retorted, in typical Novus Ordo fashion, "well we can't say that, remember the Jean Vianney story? The guy who jumped off the bridge?"

So, when push comes to shove, he's really no different than the others. Do any Novus Ordites, whether lay or clerical, believe anyone's in Hell except maybe Hitler?

As for the funeral you described, it's getting to the point that every Novus Ordo funeral is scandalous.

I witnessed the travesty via live stream, as it during Coof time in CA.

I was filled with rage. Wife walked out.

I met this poor lady in passing when I'd drop my wife off at work.

My wife taught her youngest son and could see the devastation.

This poor lady received communion kneeling, and in the tongue, veiled, in a New Church environment.

I pray that she was welcomed into the Heavenly Jerusalem and prays for all of us, especially her children.

I've stopped going to pretty much every NO funeral unless it is immediate family. Even then, I hate it, and try to sit alone in the back.

I never know how to act at these things. Is it ok to sit alone in the back? Anymore I only go to family funerals. They make me sick but I don't know what else to do. Everybody thinks I'm rude but I don't really care. The wakes drive me nuts. I have a deal with the funeral director, absolute silence must be maintained except during the rosary. He said he is shocked the way people act these days. He'll make sure people are respectful and silent at my wake he said. There won't be a problem since the only people that will be there will only be family, who know how I feel, and traditionalists, who know how to act.
?
I adore Thee O Christ, and I bless Thee, because by Thy holy cross Thou hast redeemed the world!

Jesus, Mary, and Joseph save souls!

Of course I wear jeans, "The tornadoes can make dresses immodest." RSC

"Don't waste time in your life trying to get even with your enemies. The grave is a tremendous equalizer. Six weeks after you all are dead, you'll look pretty much the same. Let the Lord take care of those whom you think have harmed you. All you have to do is love and forgive. Try to forget and leave all else to the Master."– Mother Angelica

Bonaventure

I try to do it, but if family insist, I will sit with them and offer it up.

Charity trumps piety.
"If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me."

TradGranny

Quote from: Bonaventure on June 28, 2023, 08:19:05 AMI try to do it, but if family insist, I will sit with them and offer it up.

Charity trumps piety.

I have tried to sit with familiy at a NO canonization, but it's not good for my blood pressure, nor my digestive system. When I hear the NO presider telling the family that their daughter, (who died of either an accidental or deliberate drug overdose) is "in heaven and we should pray TO her" my blood boils and I get a severe stomach ache.

I see the agony in the eyes of the parents who know that the NO presider is lying, and know we should be praying for the soul of their daughter. They are being deprived of the opportunity to pray for their daughter.

I now sit in the back, refusing to give credence to this charade.
To have courage for whatever comes in life - everything lies in that.
Saint Teresa of Avila

Bonaventure

Quote from: TradGranny on June 28, 2023, 11:14:59 AM
Quote from: Bonaventure on June 28, 2023, 08:19:05 AMI try to do it, but if family insist, I will sit with them and offer it up.

Charity trumps piety.

I have tried to sit with familiy at a NO canonization, but it's not good for my blood pressure, nor my digestive system. When I hear the NO presider telling the family that their daughter, (who died of either an accidental or deliberate drug overdose) is "in heaven and we should pray TO her" my blood boils and I get a severe stomach ache.

I see the agony in the eyes of the parents who know that the NO presider is lying, and know we should be praying for the soul of their daughter. They are being deprived of the opportunity to pray for their daughter.

I now sit in the back, refusing to give credence to this charade.

I feel you. The last times it has been an immediate family funeral, I have only gone to the wake, and not the funeral.
"If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me."

benedicite

From the Baltimore Catechism;

Q. 510. Is it ever possible for one to be saved who does not know the Catholic Church to be the true Church?
A. It is possible for one to be saved who does not know the Catholic Church to be the true Church, provided that person:
1.(1) Has been validly baptized;
2.(2) Firmly believes the religion he professes and practices to be the true religion, and
3.(3) Dies without the guilt of mortal sin on his soul.

Q. 511. Why do we say it is only possible for a person to be saved who does not know the CatholicChurch to be the true Church?
A. We say it is only possible for a person to be saved who does not know the Catholic Church to be the true Church, because the necessary conditions are not often found, especially that of dying in a state of grace without making use of the Sacrament of Penance.

https://www.catholicnewsagency.com/resource/55449/lesson-11-on-the-church