How to handle the coming persecutions

Started by probablywontmakeit, May 11, 2023, 12:51:16 PM

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Joseph_3

Yes, if you are called to witness, yes you must profess Christ and accept the benefits of doing so.

But what happens when you are not called to witness, and instead called to commit an offense, as in the case discussed by Tertullian in 'De corona militis,' where a solider refused to wear a crown during the bonus? He was ousted as a Christian simply because he would not commit what he believed to be a sin. Can you barricade yourself into the country, so far from the perversity of the world that no one would ever test your principles?

I understand prepping and trying to move away, as I have plans of my own, but it is a mistake to think that you can simply avoid a true persecution by hiding. Devout Christians survived in both the city and the wilderness in both Rome and the Soviet Union. It is in God's hand. Make no mistake, the enforcers of the internationalist agenda will come to you, especially with AI surveillance programs guiding them.

awkward customer

#31
Dear OP,

Trads could try giving themselves a pat on the back for holding onto the Faith in these times. 

Seriously. I hear lots of talk about making reparations and doing penance, which is fair enough.  But sometimes people need encouragement and praise, especially when they are standing alone for Christ in a world that is going down the demonic drain in double quick time. 

Trads are spiritual warriors and warriors need encouragement too.  God has seen fit to place each and every one of us in the world at this time.  Some might see that as a burden, others as an opportunity to prove one's loyalty to Him against all the odds.  Whether you choose to take refuge in the hills or stay where you are, the practical outcome will most likely depend on luck.    But the spiritual outcome is down to us entirely and so far, so good. 

So fellow Trads, take a bow.  Come on.  You deserve it.  Because you're worth it.  I mean it. 

And then maybe offer a comment or two on cooperating with people of goodwill who aren't Trads, or religious at all.

james03

QuoteI understand prepping and trying to move away, as I have plans of my own, but it is a mistake to think that you can simply avoid a true persecution by hiding. Devout Christians survived in both the city and the wilderness in both Rome and the Soviet Union. It is in God's hand. Make no mistake, the enforcers of the internationalist agenda will come to you, especially with AI surveillance programs guiding them.

The early Christians had Mass in the catacombs.  The Irish had Mass at the Mass Rocks in secret.  And I think those Mass Rocks are one of the most Catholic places on the earth.

You do what is Prudent.  And today it is prudent to escape hellish leftist depraved cities and move near a Trad Haven.  I'm not advocating moving out into the wilderness and living in a lean to.
"But he that doth not believe, is already judged: because he believeth not in the name of the only begotten Son of God (Jn 3:18)."

"All sorrow leads to the foot of the Cross.  Weep for your sins."

"Although He should kill me, I will trust in Him"

Acolyte

#33
Quote from: TradGranny on May 12, 2023, 04:23:05 PMHowever else we may prepare for coming persecutions, number one is to become detached from earthly things and focus our efforts on prayer and sanctification. We need to focus more on our next address.

Amen



"From the moment we awake in the morning, let us pray continually in the words of holy David: Turn away my eyes, that they may not behold vanity"
St Alphonsus

"I will set my face against you, and you shall fall down before your enemies, and shall be made subject to them that hate you, you shall flee when no man pursueth you"
Leviticus 26:17

"Behold, O God our protector : and look upon the face of Thy Christ" (Ps. 79:20) Here is devotion to the face of Jesus Christ as prophesized by David."
Fr. Lawrence Daniel Carney III

Greg

Quote from: james03 on May 25, 2023, 03:01:41 PMI mean after the imposition of the terror state and the rule of anti-Christ.  You have to hold out for 3-1/2 years.

I also think the great war comes first.  It started in Kiev, and Russia.

3,5 years is a long time in a terror state.

3.5 years ago Covid popped up in China and none of us had yet heard of it.
Contentment is knowing that you're right. Happiness is knowing that someone else is wrong.

TradGranny

Quote from: Joseph_3 on May 30, 2023, 10:08:20 AMWhat is there to handle? Do you fear your ascent to Heaven?

Intense suffering which can last quite a long, long time. During torture, many apostatize.
To have courage for whatever comes in life - everything lies in that.
Saint Teresa of Avila

Greg

80% weakly went and got jabbed, many so they could go on a foreign holiday.  Not sure how much actual torture will be necessary.

I am determined to spit in their eye however much they torture me.  I really hate them.  I hope I live to see them all burn.
Contentment is knowing that you're right. Happiness is knowing that someone else is wrong.

probablywontmakeit

Quote from: Joseph_3 on May 30, 2023, 10:08:20 AMWhat is there to handle? Do you fear your ascent to Heaven?

What do you do if they are demanding you renounce Christ, but they're threatening to kill someone else if you don't? For instance, what if they catch you, and then kidnap someone else's kid, and threaten to kill the kid?

If you say no, how do you look at that parent in the eye after that?

awkward customer

Quote from: probablywontmakeit on June 05, 2023, 11:23:25 PMWhat do you do if they are demanding you renounce Christ, but they're threatening to kill someone else if you don't? For instance, what if they catch you, and then kidnap someone else's kid, and threaten to kill the kid?

That's an interesting question but I doubt it would happen.  A renunciation would have to be seen to be voluntary, at least in public.  A renunciation given under the above circumstances wouldn't convince anyone.

awkward customer

Do there have to be persecutions? 

Couldn't Christ come again suddenly and without warning, like a thief in the night?  Does there have to be yet another ghastly round of murder to demonstrate the evil that human beings are capable of?  We know this already.

TradGranny

#40
Quote from: awkward customer on June 06, 2023, 08:49:32 AM
Quote from: probablywontmakeit on June 05, 2023, 11:23:25 PMWhat do you do if they are demanding you renounce Christ, but they're threatening to kill someone else if you don't? For instance, what if they catch you, and then kidnap someone else's kid, and threaten to kill the kid?

That's an interesting question but I doubt it would happen.  A renunciation would have to be seen to be voluntary, at least in public.  A renunciation given under the above circumstances wouldn't convince anyone.

Read about the martyrs -- the early Christian ones, the French Revolution ones, all of the Communist revolution ones, and others throughout history.  Where did you get the notion that renouncing your Faith in Jesus Christ doesn't count unless you do it voluntarily?

Read this:
https://ng.opera.news/ng/en/religion/e1aa13eead63d60f27ff2240f8be6f03

short excerpt:
The most notable Christian to renounce his faith in Japan in the 15th century was the Portuguese Jesuit priest, Cristóvão Ferreira. Ferreira arrived in Japan in 1610 and was present through the early persecutions. He sent reports to Rome during the late 1620s about the sufferings and deaths of his fellow Jesuits. In 1632, Ferreira became head of the Jesuit mission in Japan. The 53-year old was arrested in 1633 and was subjected to the reverse hanging pit before renouncing Christianity and converting to Shintoism.

This was a blow to Christian missionaries around the world, but was a success for Japan's anti-Christian efforts. Ferreira was dismissed from the Jesuits as he condemned Christianity in various writings while in Japan. He even served as a ruthless interrogator when missionaries were caught and brought in for questioning. Others Refused To Give In And Were Tortured For Days.

As efforts to remove Christianity continued throughout the 17th century, Christians were rounded up and put to the test when it came to their faith. Sadly, a large number of Christians died while in the process of being tortured. Many were subject to reverse hangings, living for as long as eight or nine days before dying. In 1624, 285 Christians died while 1627 brought about 123 new martyrs. By 1643, the list of martyrs had 1,648 names. 



To have courage for whatever comes in life - everything lies in that.
Saint Teresa of Avila

awkward customer

#41
Quote from: TradGranny on June 06, 2023, 12:34:26 PMWhere did you get the notion that renouncing your Faith in Jesus Christ doesn't count unless you do it voluntarily?


I was thinking of the Soviet Union where signed confessions had to be obtained without threats to family members because the confessions had to be seen to be voluntary, particularly during Stalin's Show Trials of the 1930s when the international press was present and the proceedings were filmed.

The Soviets must have learned that the methods employed by the Japanese convinced no-one and made lots of martyrs. The Soviets were keen not to make the same mistake.

So they employed the methods of the cult instead, which are far more effective.  Those accused voluntarily confessed to crimes they hadn't committed.  They admitted voluntarily that they were bourgeois enemies of the revolution, even when they weren't, thereby ensuring the death penalty. 

Why did they do this?  Because the communist system was hugely inefficient and practically nothing worked properly. Rather than admit that communism doesn't work, those accused willingly took the blame for its failings.  They sacrificed themselves to save the system.

The Soviet cult methods worked far better than the brutal tortures of the Japanese and made no martyrs.  This is why I think that cult methods will be preferred over brutal torture, although I'm not suggesting that torture won't be used at all, just that it won't be the preferred method because it is so inefficient.

TradGranny

I too hope that torture will not be involved. However, it would be wise to be spiritually and emotionally prepared for whatever God permits.
To have courage for whatever comes in life - everything lies in that.
Saint Teresa of Avila

probablywontmakeit

Quote from: TradGranny on June 08, 2023, 11:06:25 AMI too hope that torture will not be involved. However, it would be wise to be spiritually and emotionally prepared for whatever God permits.

What the japanese did that worked was they made the missionaries watch while they tortured their converts. They didn't stop when the converts they were torturing apostatized, they continued until the missionaries did.

GMC

#44
I would like a quick martyrdom. For example, they point the rifle at you, they demand you renounce Christ, you shout "VIVA CRISTO REY!" and they shoot you. The end. This would be much easier than prolonged physical and/or psychological torture.

But, of course, I can`t choose. I hope I have the strength to accept the martyrdom that God will want.