Will You Attend the NO?

[Penelope]

Penelope, I'm sure that you could receive a dispensation from the principal to not have to attend the Novus Ordo at your school.  After all, the Second Vatican Council taught that man has the right to worship according to his own religious impulse (Dignitatis Humanae, no 4).  Your dignity as a human person, according to the council, affords you the right to worship God as you see fit. 

/end tongue in cheek

Believe me, I've thought about it. Once one of my teacher-friends was feeling ill and left Mass. I went to check on her, and let's just say that I didn't hurry back.

Yes, it seems this is a problem that many sedeplenists run into nowadays.  However, the SSPX (at least, what's left of it) think Francis is Peter, and they do not attend or acknowledge the Novus Ordo as a Catholic rite.

Though I have always been fascinated with this idea of the TLM being superior to the NO.  To someone who "acknowledges" both, this could only refer to a preferential superiority, could it not?

I don't think so, no. As another example, one could also argue that the pre-'55 Holy Week is inherently superior, but that later traditional Holy Week is just as valid, no?

[Alphonsus Jr.]

I acknowledge the validity of the new rites for Mass

I too acknowledge that a Novus Ordo service could be valid, but in the same way that a wedding with everybody dressed as clowns might also enjoy bare validity. I say that, though it might be valid, any Novus Ordo service is inherently irreverent because the Novus Ordo service was born as an attack on the traditional Mass and the theology at its root. Its denuded rubrics, in accord with its root Protestantism, reflect that the Novus Ordo service is truly a work of liturgical vandalism. It's exactly what Luther and his ilk wanted. So I'm convinced that the Novus Ordo service is deeply displeasing to God, however "reverent," and thus I'll have nothing more to do with it ever again under any circumstances.

[Mithrandylan]

Penelope, I'm sure that you could receive a dispensation from the principal to not have to attend the Novus Ordo at your school.  After all, the Second Vatican Council taught that man has the right to worship according to his own religious impulse (Dignitatis Humanae, no 4).  Your dignity as a human person, according to the council, affords you the right to worship God as you see fit. 

/end tongue in cheek

Believe me, I've thought about it. Once one of my teacher-friends was feeling ill and left Mass. I went to check on her, and let's just say that I didn't hurry back.

Yes, it seems this is a problem that many sedeplenists run into nowadays.  However, the SSPX (at least, what's left of it) think Francis is Peter, and they do not attend or acknowledge the Novus Ordo as a Catholic rite.

Though I have always been fascinated with this idea of the TLM being superior to the NO.  To someone who "acknowledges" both, this could only refer to a preferential superiority, could it not?

I don't think so, no. As another example, one could also argue that the pre-'55 Holy Week is inherently superior, but that later traditional Holy Week is just as valid, no?

Except that the Holy Week changes are not sacraments, nor are they a required obligation, nor do they exist simultaneously.

[Penelope]

I acknowledge the validity of the new rites for Mass

I too acknowledge that a Novus Ordo service could be valid, but in the same way that a wedding with everybody dressed as clowns might also enjoy bare validity. I say that, though it might be valid, any Novus Ordo service is inherently irreverent because the Novus Ordo service was born as an attack on the traditional Mass and the theology at its root. Its denuded rubrics, in accord with its root Protestantism, reflect that the Novus Ordo service is truly a work of liturgical vandalism. It's exactly what Luther and his ilk wanted. So I'm convinced that the Novus Ordo service is deeply displeasing to God, however "reverent," and thus I'll have nothing more to do with it ever again under any circumstances.

Yeah, I get that. I really do and part of me wants to buy wholly into that argument. The other part of me has deep concerns about the obligation, and I'm not sure how to determine which would displease God more. I wish He'd just whisper the answer in my ear, but He doesn't really work that way, so for right now, I'm stuck straddling this weird fence, with one foot firmly planted on the side of tradition and the other hovering awkwardly in the land of the Novus Ordo and the normal diocesan structures.

[Mithrandylan]

Read.

No one who has left the NO in the dust did it because they received a divine apparition.

Pray.

[Alphonsus Jr.]

I acknowledge the validity of the new rites for Mass

I too acknowledge that a Novus Ordo service could be valid, but in the same way that a wedding with everybody dressed as clowns might also enjoy bare validity. I say that, though it might be valid, any Novus Ordo service is inherently irreverent because the Novus Ordo service was born as an attack on the traditional Mass and the theology at its root. Its denuded rubrics, in accord with its root Protestantism, reflect that the Novus Ordo service is truly a work of liturgical vandalism. It's exactly what Luther and his ilk wanted. So I'm convinced that the Novus Ordo service is deeply displeasing to God, however "reverent," and thus I'll have nothing more to do with it ever again under any circumstances.

Yeah, I get that. I really do and part of me wants to buy wholly into that argument. The other part of me has deep concerns about the obligation, and I'm not sure how to determine which would displease God more. I wish He'd just whisper the answer in my ear, but He doesn't really work that way, so for right now, I'm stuck straddling this weird fence, with one foot firmly planted on the side of tradition and the other hovering awkwardly in the land of the Novus Ordo and the normal diocesan structures.

I get it. I was there myself. It's very tricky. Such is the diabolical disorientation flowing from the Judas Council.

I would urge interested readers to click on the Show More box on the YT page here for further reading:

[yt]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=10tyQOHYhnI&feature=c4-overview-vl&list=PL_Wlh4xUtqa7117VCLW9I6MyLn4a14-_O[/yt]

[Penelope]

Penelope, I'm sure that you could receive a dispensation from the principal to not have to attend the Novus Ordo at your school.  After all, the Second Vatican Council taught that man has the right to worship according to his own religious impulse (Dignitatis Humanae, no 4).  Your dignity as a human person, according to the council, affords you the right to worship God as you see fit. 

/end tongue in cheek

Believe me, I've thought about it. Once one of my teacher-friends was feeling ill and left Mass. I went to check on her, and let's just say that I didn't hurry back.

Yes, it seems this is a problem that many sedeplenists run into nowadays.  However, the SSPX (at least, what's left of it) think Francis is Peter, and they do not attend or acknowledge the Novus Ordo as a Catholic rite.

Though I have always been fascinated with this idea of the TLM being superior to the NO.  To someone who "acknowledges" both, this could only refer to a preferential superiority, could it not?

I don't think so, no. As another example, one could also argue that the pre-'55 Holy Week is inherently superior, but that later traditional Holy Week is just as valid, no?

Except that the Holy Week changes are not sacraments, nor are they a required obligation, nor do they exist simultaneously.

Fair enough. I'm trying to think of another example that mirrors the situation better, but I can't come up with anything. I will have to reflect on the matter.

[Penelope]

Thanks for the recommendation. Remind me about it in June. The only things I have time to read* until then are student essays. 

*this also applies to lengthy theological videos to watch.

[Bonaventure]

No.

[Gottmitunsalex]

I acknowledge the validity of the new rites for Mass

I too acknowledge that a Novus Ordo service could be valid, but in the same way that a wedding with everybody dressed as clowns might also enjoy bare validity. I say that, though it might be valid, any Novus Ordo service is inherently irreverent because the Novus Ordo service was born as an attack on the traditional Mass and the theology at its root. Its denuded rubrics, in accord with its root Protestantism, reflect that the Novus Ordo service is truly a work of liturgical vandalism. It's exactly what Luther and his ilk wanted. So I'm convinced that the Novus Ordo service is deeply displeasing to God, however "reverent," and thus I'll have nothing more to do with it ever again under any circumstances.

Yeah, I get that. I really do and part of me wants to buy wholly into that argument. The other part of me has deep concerns about the obligation, and I'm not sure how to determine which would displease God more. I wish He'd just whisper the answer in my ear, but He doesn't really work that way, so for right now, I'm stuck straddling this weird fence, with one foot firmly planted on the side of tradition and the other hovering awkwardly in the land of the Novus Ordo and the normal diocesan structures.

There should not be 2nd best.
The NO should not be an "option". The Lord does not like seconds.
Cain and Abel come to mind.
If we as mere mortals can discern and know which Mass is theologically and liturgically superior. Why do we still "offer" the inferior one up to Him?

No to the NO.

[Mr. Mysterious]

No, and I wouldn't attend one if there were no TLM or Eastern Rite available. I'd do what I did throughout most of the 80's and 90's: stay at home and tell the powers that be to take that sad joke and stick it where the sun doesn't shine.

[Gottmitunsalex]

[yt]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s4wh8Kb97N4[/yt]

[Penelope]

Read.

No one who has left the NO in the dust did it because they received a divine apparition.

Pray.

Also, just to be fair, other folks have read and prayed a great deal and come to a different conclusion than you have.

[Gottmitunsalex]

Read.

No one who has left the NO in the dust did it because they received a divine apparition.

Pray.

Also, just to be fair, other folks have read and prayed a great deal and come to a different conclusion than you have.

Yes. Liberals, Neo-Cons, "Conservative" Catholics, modernists, "Status quo" Catholics and Cardinal Mahoney.

[totiusque]

To be fair, there should be at least one example of a Novus Ordo Mass celebrated properly.

[yt]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=Du-cM3Zal08[/yt]

As for me, I voted "Yes", though with reservations.  I will attend to fulfill a Sunday obligation because I do not find the NO to be a hindrance to my faith, and I believe their Sacraments are valid.  Yes, I believe the TLM is theologically and liturgically superior (not just preferentially), but that God has allowed His Church to use an inferior rite for reasons He has not revealed to us (I have my guesses, but that's all they are).  One could also say the TLM is superior to the Eastern rite liturgies, yet even most traditionalists do not dispute the validity/liceity of those.

I have been discerning this issue for several years and have yet to see a compelling argument that shows how one can be a sedeplenist and still believe that the Novus Ordo is a bastard rite and is inherently evil.  If I do eventually come to that belief, which is not out of the realm of possibility, I will cease to be a sedeplenist.